Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[SQ8]

Chief! How do you support YF-23 kind approach as compare to canted vertical tails?

Absolutely - the widow was ahead of its time; today all around stealth is more important versus supermaneuverability.

I’d always imagined AZM as a two platform program with a blended V tail fighter as the higher end strike playform.

 

[LKJ86]

One can say that the KFX may be aiming for frontal stealth only

KF-X also can't achieve frontal stealth.

 

[Kabotar]

Leaks regarding AZM?

Expect some leaks after 14th of August - none from me though.

@Armchair please do not read too much into my posts. Though I have some contacts, I never use them to get any classified information. If I do come across any information, I keep it to myself. I have not seen a wind-tunnel model. I am not related to project Azm.

 

[PakFactor]

Expect some leaks after 14th of August - none from me though.

@Armchair please do not read too much into my posts. Though I have some contacts, I never use them to get any classified information. If I do come across any information, I keep it to myself. I have not seen a wind-tunnel model. I am not related to project Azm.

Possible Block 3 update?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Is it feasible to do a twin v-tail by building the vertical stabilizers with primarily composites? That should help alleviate any issues re: added weight, no?

Re: an internal payload. Why stick to trying to stick it within the fuselage? How about a conformal carriage that can stick to the fuselage?

View attachment 659157

Why not internal bays when you're designing from scratch? I'm sure our designers won't have too difficult a time learning the engineering that will go into rearranging landing gears and such. No good structural engineer will approve of a redundancy when it can be avoided.

 

[Indos]

KF-X also can't achieve frontal stealth.

Block 2 will use internal weapon bay based on the plan. It will be full stealth at Block 2 inshaAllah.

Block 1 is semi Stealth

 

[Figaro]

Block 2 will use internal weapon bay based on the plan. It will be full stealth at Block 2 inshaAllah.

Block 1 is semi Stealth

Why not just concentrate all the efforts on the full stealth block (internal weapons bay). I don't understand why they would want to split it up into two blocks when one is obviously inferior.

 

[Indos]

Why not just concentrate all the efforts on the full stealth block (internal weapons bay). I don't understand why they would want to split it up into two blocks when one is obviously inferior.

I think it can be because 4 things:

1. To make the program can be realized soon.
2. Indonesia want to have long range fighter so it needs additional 2 fuel tanks.
3. The design has been made with internal weapon in mind so making the next block with internal weapon bay doesnt need to redesigned the C 109 design (KFX/IFX final design).
4. Semi Stealth with only 4 missile attached in the belly is considered as Stealth enough.

 

[PakFactor]

Seems the problem with stealth fighters is the payload is limited for missions, this'll require more fighters for a A-G role (with internal bays) vs the standard non-stealth fighter.

 

[Pogical Thinking]

Seems the problem with stealth fighters is the payload is limited for missions, this'll require more fighters for a A-G role (with internal bays) vs the standard non-stealth fighter.

 

[PakFactor]

View attachment 659351

Yes that I know, what I’m saying is internal bay only to keep stealth relevant. The moment you go F-35 pylon loading your RCS increases defeating the point of creating a stealth fighter.

 

[PakFactor]

@Pogical Thinking

I think what Air Forces will need to do is strike a balance between stealth and non stealth fighters. Going full stealth limit mission loads and you’d have to make sure accuracy is 100% and always according to plan against a completely rival Air Force. My opinion and others can differ stealth fighters will mostly be used in SEAD once threat is gone then the rest of package enters air space to dominate.

 

[The Eagle]

Block 1 is semi Stealth

In my opinion, only if we could do so in 5 years, may be there is an option, the PAF should move ahead with some semi stealth off-the shelf platform for 4.5++ tier and then can progress with Azm. Something like FC-31/J-35 in current setup having limited internal load with option to external load-out yet with lowest RCS, stealth shaped coated fighter jet flying with almost the existing 5th Gen configuration. Why to struggle for something EFT etc when such platform can serve more than one purpose... we have a stealth as well as a 4.5++ or I may call it 4.95 gen platform in multi-role capability. With internal loadout, it is a stealth with limited fire while with external loadout, we have a advance yet almost close to 5th gen fighter jet which in the end, is going to support true Azm.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) any thoughts.... @SQ8 can't we progress in this setup instead of us internet boys dreaming for EFT or whatever? FC-31 can do many things against single invoice.

 

[SQ8]

In my opinion, only if we could do so in 5 years, may be there is an option, the PAF should move ahead with some semi stealth off-the shelf platform for 4.5++ tier and then can progress with Azm. Something like FC-31/J-35 in current setup having limited internal load with option to external load-out yet with lowest RCS, stealth shaped coated fighter jet flying with almost the existing 5th Gen configuration. Why to struggle for something EFT etc when such platform can serve more than one purpose... we have a stealth as well as a 4.5++ or I may call it 4.95 gen platform in multi-role capability. With internal loadout, it is a stealth with limited fire while with external loadout, we have a advance yet almost close to 5th gen fighter jet which in the end, is going to support true Azm.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) any thoughts.... @SQ8 can't we progress in this setup instead of us internet boys dreaming for EFT or whatever? FC-31 can do many things against single invoice.

I’ll invoke some business terms here -
If there was a way to quantify it - what is the IRR of going this way versus a fully baked 5th generation fighter?

 

[Pogical Thinking]

@Pogical Thinking

I think what Air Forces will need to do is strike a balance between stealth and non stealth fighters. Going full stealth limit mission loads and you’d have to make sure accuracy is 100% and always according to plan against a completely rival Air Force. My opinion and others can differ stealth fighters will mostly be used in SEAD once threat is gone then the rest of package enters air space to dominate.

I agree, but I think the biggest reason for needing to maintaining a balance is not due to payload limitations of stealth fighters but due to stealth fighters being more expensive to build and maintain.