Possible steps to counter the rising threat from IAF ?

[Infinity]

Hi,

Most indian posters don't realize that being a smaller country and our geography---we need lesser aircraft to defend----like frontline aircraft + long and medium range SA batteries---. IAF can never place 100% of their aircraft in Pakistan's arena----only 60% or so. So---it will never have have ultimate superiority.

The bigger loss is to indian IT industry---one successful pakistai strike at a major IT hub----the business will be flying out---actually Pakistan CAN HAVE hostilities against india and be successful once it targets those hubs----.

Another 4 sqdrn's of F 16's new / used----2 to 3 sqdrn's of heavies and against any indian aggression----Pakistan can pull off a coupe de grace by escalating any indian shelling and taking it to the next level.

PAF's target would be deep into india's gut----in the south where all the IT hubs are----strike deep---strike hard----and let the chips fall where they may.

Once that happens----within 48 to 72 hours of the war---businesses would be running out of Hindustan.

Hi...........MastanKhan

Our Its Hubs are more or less concentrated in South................And then in Central India....
Are You Sure PAF can Raid these Locations...................

 

[temp1994]

Hi,

Most indian posters don't realize that being a smaller country and our geography---we need lesser aircraft to defend----like frontline aircraft + long and medium range SA batteries---. IAF can never place 100% of their aircraft in Pakistan's arena----only 60% or so. So---it will never have have ultimate superiority.

The bigger loss is to indian IT industry---one successful pakistai strike at a major IT hub----the business will be flying out---actually Pakistan CAN HAVE hostilities against india and be successful once it targets those hubs----.

Another 4 sqdrn's of F 16's new / used----2 to 3 sqdrn's of heavies and against any indian aggression----Pakistan can pull off a coupe de grace by escalating any indian shelling and taking it to the next level.

PAF's target would be deep into india's gut----in the south where all the IT hubs are----strike deep---strike hard----and let the chips fall where they may.

Once that happens----within 48 to 72 hours of the war---businesses would be running out of Hindustan.

Aircrafts are not static vehicles. They could strike Pakistan flying from Arunanchal Base and return back in Two hours. Now Mig 21 could not do that, Mig 29 could not do that, LCA could not do that ,and Probably Mirage 2000 could not do that without refueling.But Sukhoi MKI's are perfectly capable of hitting Pakistan on their own steam ( without refueling ) and return back,perhaps the reason that all MKI bases are deep inside India.

And the one base that is in Assam is in @ss crack of a mountain. No Chinese radar , including AWACS ,could get situational awareness of what is going on that base in real time.People could not fathom the military advantage that a 7000m high wall, Himalaya, provide to India.

Add to it the fact that India has SAMs, So that Base would not be undefended even if Chinese get lucky with timings.

And how will you attack Bangalore? Ballistic missiles! What if India reciprocate with Nukes? No technology in this world could tell whether a Ballistic missile is armed with conventional warhead or a nuclear warhead, and given the cost of a IRBM, it is assumed to be nuclear armed.

And chances of your Airforce reaching so deep to Bombing Bangalore ( considering it could even reach given the lack of Tankers on your side ) are equal to PAF bombing Pentagon.


Also a important point that should not be neglected is that, it is goal of every airforce to destroy maximum number of planes on ground. Here large number provides advantage.

What if even 50% of Mig, Mirage, and Jaguar fleet of India attack at same time ( MKI's would be detected too early ) in a surprise attack? How many Aircrafts would Pakistan be able to put in Air to counter them at such a short notice ( probably 5-10 minutes )?

 

[halupridol]

I think we've all agreed to some of your points. India is 7 times larger than Pakistan. It is insane to even think about 1:1 match with 4 times the population and number 3 economy on the map. I think that's established. Its like thinking one day India will match the US....won't happen. I can't see India ever having over 3000 Jets in their arsenal. The world is different today than what it was post WWII.
Next, its a simple math. I don't think the PAF needs tens of billions. I think they need a few billion. At $ 20-25 Million a pop, they can get used -16's block 40 with the latest avionics and AMRAAMS (little lesser than block 60 AESA). $ 1 Billion buys you 100 of those......so $ 2 Billion buys you 200 of those.
Or, you could spend a billion for the -16's and the other one with the Chinese and get J-11 like 40-60 of them. That would take the number of -16's to 170, JFT 150 (or is it 250 total?, but lets take 150 for now), J-11 to 60, totaling your primary force to little less than 400. That's not bad. If the -16 isn't an option, 100 J-11 would do with those $ 2 billions. Add about 50 point defense F-7 PG's (can still fire a missile to about 20 KM's?), that's over 400 jets. That's not bad.

A couple of billions can be spent on J-31 stealthy acquisition and another one on TOT for a decent range SAM system that can form 2-3 tiers. So total of 6-8 Billion one time expense, maintenance is not included as it would be ongoing. I think if Pakistan adds about 20-30 billion in additional income, revenue and taxes through programs being started with the Chinese, I think this is very do-able if you divide the sum over 3 years ($ 2 Billion per year). Or if you put down 3 billion in advance, the manufacturer will finance the remainder as they'll recover their cost with the first large down payment.
The purpose is not to match every single SU or Mirage or Rafale....the purpose is to make the other party realize that they will lose half of their Western fleet in case they tried to venture out. Do you think India or anyone else really wants to lose 35-40% of its air force when they are also dealing with a semi-super power China on the other side of the border?? The answer is not just a no, its a Hell No!

simple math?

 

[kaykay]

Hi,

On one way trips----. Are you really that gullible that you believe that your enemy cannot strike you at your weakest point----. Are you Indians getting that stupid now that they start to believe in the brainwashing propaganda that they have suddenly become invincible---.

Remember Collin Powell---he already told you guys in 2002----screw up one more time---and all this business is ready to be transferred over to eastern Europe----.

You Indians really really think that the world will let you take down its economy just because your egos are hurting----get your feet on the ground----.

Remember---10 years ago---whenever we had an issue we would say that we are going to nuc you----. We haven't said that this time---because we know that we don't need to---our conventional strength has increased by a 100 fold---but not yours.

Step back---slow down----look around----see how the people who have good jobs are enjoying good lives---. God has given you an opportunity to move up and beyond where you dreamed to be---but incidently----you morons cannot live your good lives----and want to bring yourselves down and roll in shit and filth----. Trust me on this---God gives you what you ask for----and when it is war----the Lord will give you war----but will never promise you roses---it is only death and destruction.

Whoa!! Congrats for your conventional strength (which has been increased by 100 times in last 10 years but not ours). Haha hahahahaha
PS: Well you are true about our part that our conventional strength has not been increased by 100 folds in last 10 years. but for rest, A big LOL

 

[kṣamā]

Hi,

Most indian posters don't realize that being a smaller country and our geography---we need lesser aircraft to defend----like frontline aircraft + long and medium range SA batteries---. IAF can never place 100% of their aircraft in Pakistan's arena----only 60% or so. So---it will never have have ultimate superiority.

The bigger loss is to indian IT industry---one successful pakistai strike at a major IT hub----the business will be flying out---actually Pakistan CAN HAVE hostilities against india and be successful once it targets those hubs----.

Another 4 sqdrn's of F 16's new / used----2 to 3 sqdrn's of heavies and against any indian aggression----Pakistan can pull off a coupe de grace by escalating any indian shelling and taking it to the next level.

PAF's target would be deep into india's gut----in the south where all the IT hubs are----strike deep---strike hard----and let the chips fall where they may.

Once that happens----within 48 to 72 hours of the war---businesses would be running out of Hindustan.

Like @temp1994 said, it's difficult to target our south Indian IT hubs. But you may come up with a scenario of attacking our semi IT hubs and economic capital: Pune and Mumbai respectively. They are nearby and close to Pakistani airspace. Quite achievable if you have descent air refueling capabilities and somehow by god's grace ur strike package is not detected by our Air defense Ships, Coastal Radars and coastal SAM batteries. Now let's assume u reach our western coastline about 350km away from Mumbai (Bcoz u would be taking a North-South route to include Pune in the same bombing run).

Now you cannot possibly bomb Mumbai's IT hub, why? Bcoz it's close to our Nuclear installation, bombing there would definitely open world of hurt from our side !!! Plus the regions near our nuclear installation have "No-Fly" zones and attached dedicated air defense batteries. Pune is even a bad target. It's like hitting a hornet's nest butt naked !!! The MKI from Lohegaon Airforce Base will have quickies . . . .

 

[MastanKhan]

Whoa!! Congrats for your conventional strength (which has been increased by 100 times in last 10 years but not ours). Haha hahahahaha
PS: Well you are true about our part that our conventional strength has not been increased by 100 folds in last 10 years. but for rest, A big LOL

If you did not notice---we did not have any aircraft o fight you at kargil.

And I did not notice before ----temp1994 is a new member here---a 20 years old kid at that----.

 

[kṣamā]

Remember---10 years ago---whenever we had an issue we would say that we are going to nuc you----. We haven't said that this time---because we know that we don't need to---our conventional strength has increased by a 100 fold---but not yours.

Now that's an exaggeration... Prey pls tell me what all do u consider in "Conventional Strength" ?? [Also being a grammar Nazi here but it should be "by 100 fold"]. Plus what do u think we had been doing, selling peanuts ?? I am not going to brag about everything we have been doing lately but if it is an indication we fast tracked production of space based transponders and even preponed launching them !! Another Hint: Information Warfare.

Step back---slow down----look around----see how the people who have good jobs are enjoying good lives---. God has given you an opportunity to move up and beyond where you dreamed to be---but incidently----you morons cannot live your good lives----and want to bring yourselves down and roll in shit and filth----. Trust me on this---God gives you what you ask for----and when it is war----the Lord will give you war----but will never promise you roses---it is only death and destruction.

Wow... when did we ask for war ?? we wanted prosperity from the start !!

 

[Lil Mathew]

Hi,

Most indian posters don't realize that being a smaller country and our geography---we need lesser aircraft to defend----like frontline aircraft + long and medium range SA batteries---. IAF can never place 100% of their aircraft in Pakistan's arena----only 60% or so. So---it will never have have ultimate superiority.

The bigger loss is to indian IT industry---one successful pakistai strike at a major IT hub----the business will be flying out---actually Pakistan CAN HAVE hostilities against india and be successful once it targets those hubs----.

Another 4 sqdrn's of F 16's new / used----2 to 3 sqdrn's of heavies and against any indian aggression----Pakistan can pull off a coupe de grace by escalating any indian shelling and taking it to the next level.

PAF's target would be deep into india's gut----in the south where all the IT hubs are----strike deep---strike hard----and let the chips fall where they may.

Once that happens----within 48 to 72 hours of the war---businesses would be running out of Hindustan.

Your f16s never return to Pakistan after a deep strike in south Indian IT hubs... Next point is..How a strike in one IT hub ends our IT industry???
Almost all IT companies are indian with Indians as employers.. They get projects from foriegn countries... The only thing customers want is desired product in desired time line.. If an IT company can deliver the project in time, they will get more business( 30% of resources ofalmost every IT companies are idle at a given time-consult anyone in Indian IT industry).. Also our IT export is only ~30 billion dollar (2012)..
Our economy is domestic market driven unlike China.. Companies investing India seeing huge domestic market.. It will continue as long as here is market..
Anyway a war will be a hard blow to our economy.. But your country even not have resources to sustain a war.. War will fought in your land.. Max you can do is some missile strikes and numerically limited air strikes..

 

[IPL5]

It is stupid to think about targeting civilian population. It will give the rights to india to wipe out whole Pakistan. You cant simply violate vienna convention and get away with it. This will constitute to war crimes.

 

[PakGuns]

We lack in good ground based air defense systems... we need something comparable to s-300 or 400... Chinese counterparts could be a good option...

 

[Storm Force]

Bunch of kids talking rubbish

Flying to south India in raid.

Get real you need massive strike planes like flankers or f15 or carrier based super hornets.

Even then you need to knock out our afnet fibre optic real time survaliannce system whichbincludes satalites and swordfish and green pine radars .

Get beyond this the get thru s300.spyder or Akash Sam missiles.

Finally get thru their massive bvr fleet.

Then if you get there how you flying back

Round trip2000km

 

[PakGuns]

Bunch of kids talking rubbish

Flying to south India in raid.

Get real you need massive strike planes like flankers or f15 or carrier based super hornets.

Even then you need to knock out our afnet fibre optic real time survaliannce system whichbincludes satalites and swordfish and green pine radars .

Get beyond this the get thru s300.spyder or Akash Sam missiles.

Finally get thru their massive bvr fleet.

Then if you get there how you flying back

Round trip2000km

K.... 

 

[Storm Force]

Imo only the USA has the tech jamming capabilities and heavy fighters to hit Indian itech hubs in deep India.

In contrast your major cities are on out border and at the mercy of our air power and army with long range artillery mbrl.

Hence your defensive air force doctrine

 

[PakGuns]

Imo only the USA has the tech jamming capabilities and heavy fighters to hit Indian itech hubs in deep India.

In contrast your major cities are on out border and at the mercy of our air power and army with long range artillery mbrl.

Hence your defensive air force doctrine

Uncle you are scaring the sh!t out of me.. back to topic now please..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Next, its a simple math. I don't think the PAF needs tens of billions. I think they need a few billion. At $ 20-25 Million a pop, they can get used -16's block 40 with the latest avionics and AMRAAMS (little lesser than block 60 AESA). $ 1 Billion buys you 100 of those......so $ 2 Billion buys you 200 of those.

I can see where you are coming from but I think you are being a bit optimistic. No way will $1 BN buy 100 F-16s, even if they are second hand, what about spares? Weapons? Training? The cost of raising related infrastructure? Buying a second hand fighter is not like buying a second hand banger- there are a lot of hidden costs. I mean India is spending $1BN and "only" getting 16 Naval helicopters (S-70Bs) for example.

And I have to wonder if getting second hand machines is really the best strategy for the PAF, yes it makes sense from a unit price point of view but what about life cycle costs? What about the penalty that all these birds will be towards the end of their service lives? In under a decade the PAF will be in just a big a mess but this time with hundreds of F-16s that need replacing urgently.

I actually think this is why the JF-17 was a good idea for the PAF- a very cheap fighter that the PAF could buy new and in relatively large numbers.

The bigger loss is to indian IT industry---one successful pakistai strike at a major IT hub----the business will be flying out---actually Pakistan CAN HAVE hostilities against india and be successful once it targets those hubs----.

You really think the PAF can touch the east/south coast of India (where the IT hubs are)? This is sheer lunacy of the highest order. Not only would this almost certainly be one way ticket for all PAF birds,your birds don't have the range to fly from Pakistan and all the way across mainland India and how exactly do you think your birds will make it through Western and Central air commands without being detected/intercepted?

The biggest load of nonsense I have heard for a long, long time.

This is how we should dent their economy, drive investors and FDI out of there, regular attacks and bigger skrimishes would turn india into a hostile state.

A chain is as strong as its weakest link----as long as india is dependent on its foreign business---that will be its weakest link---.

And you guys really think India and the world would just sit by and let you guys do this?