Possible steps to counter the rising threat from IAF ?

[HeadHunter]

We will just counter it in the 1965 style using our better trained pilots

 

[Storm Force]

Pakistanis Live in a surreal world when it comes to citing impunity to maintenance spare parts and chinease intervention.

1. The F16 particularly the new block 52s are being serviced and watched by USA technicians. You will not have a free hand with these over a American ally like india . THIS IS NOT 1971 and the kissenger era. No USA support full stop.

2. In four wars 47 65 71 & Kargil did the chinease come to directly start a second front. Do you Pakistanis think this is a chess game. Two FRONT WAR means we have to finish one FRONT immediately means somebody gets nuked.. The chinease will not coming rushing to fight for you. DREAMS not REALITY.

3. You say a MKI is maintenance nitemare. I AGREE its not simple ITS a massive platform. BUT TELL ME HOW easy is it to maintain a 50 year fleet or corroded mirages that are second hand and unsafe to fly and no spare parts avialable since the 1990s. Your mirage fleet represents 35% of official combat fleet . 99% of the world phased their mirage3/5 OVER 30 YEARS AGO.

4. Superior pilots is a myth. Yes once when you had exclusive support of American hardware and training this myth may have stacked up but ijn todays world with the massive exposure of the Indians to Israeli and American hardware including USA training in cope excercises its widly believed the IAF is far better prepared than any airforce in south Asia.

HECK WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME PAF FIRED A SHOT IN ANGAR (25 YEARS AGO)

remember KARGIL

 

[Kloitra]

Pakistanis Live in a surreal world when it comes to citing impunity to maintenance spare parts and chinease intervention.

1. The F16 particularly the new block 52s are being serviced and watched by USA technicians. You will not have a free hand with these over a American ally like india . THIS IS NOT 1971 and the kissenger era. No USA support full stop.

I doubt this is true. USA would supply materiel to both sides, rather than stopping PAF from using F16. It has no reason to do so, given as an ally Pakistan still hold a lot of importance.

 

[Storm Force]

Kloitra.

USA will do all it can to stop a war. THAT MEANS NO MATERIAL FOR BOTH SIDES.

china will help Pakistan.

Israel & Russia will defo pour in hardware to India

 

[Kloitra]

Kloitra.

USA will do all it can to stop a war. THAT MEANS NO MATERIAL FOR BOTH SIDES.

china will help Pakistan.

Israel & Russia will defo pour in hardware to India

Hard to say. Depends on how much the war hurts their interest I guess. Besides PAF has its own supply chain for spares. It can maintain the aircrafts for a certain number of days/sorties without any spare support. Don't forget, the F16s are there to be used.

 

[HRK]

Two FRONT WAR means we have to finish one FRONT immediately means somebody gets nuked

......

 

[Donatello]

Storm Force is back, gentlemen.

I've updated the troll advisory.

 

[Storm Force]

Dontello.

We only have to sneeze and you cite a Troll

Getting rid of Indians in this debate ( I assume its a debate) Will not change the facts ..

We are merely pointing out the numerous weaknesses in your air power doctrine and your over reliance on assumptions that PLAAF will come to your aid.

THIS IS NOT TROLLING

 

[The SC]

I've been saying it for a long time now......long range SAMS, a few squadrons of -15's or J-11's and then J-31 or watered down JSF (if Pakistan can afford it) are the need of the hour. SAMS are cheaper and all......but you need to realize they can be taken out from well within the enemies' airspace. You need both, modern jets in numbers and in a Hi-Lo mix and then two tiers of long range SAMS (with the third tier being point defense F-7 and short range or mid range SAMS).

There are many ways to counter Anti Rradiation Missiles:
Air Defence System Defensive Aids
Defensive Aids for IADS Components

• RWE-1 Missile Approach Warning System
• VNIIRT 34Ya6E Gazetchik E MAWS, Decoy and Countermeasures System
• KBR Integrated Anti-Radiation Missile Defensive Suite
• Tetraedr SRTZ-2TM Anti-Radiation Missile Decoy System
• Defense Systems KRTZ-125-2M Anti-Radiation Missile Decoy System
• Almaz-Antey OU-1 Relocatable Decoy for Osa AKM / SA-8 Gecko
• Aviakonversiya GPS/GLONASS GNSS Signal Jammers
• LPPU-83 Self Propelled TELAR Decoy
• MKT-2, MKT-3 and Volchitsa-KR Camouflage Netting

The Chinese RWE-1 is a radio-frequency band active MAWS intended to protect SAM batteries from attack by anti-radiation missiles such as the AGM-88 HARM/AARGM series. It is employed to trigger emitter shutdown and activation of active emitting decoys. The manufacturer's brochure claims a detection range of 40 km / 21.6 NMI.

DF capability is likely to be via amplitude comparison between channels, providing ~10° DF accuracy, adequate for cueing decoys, or cueing point defence weapons like the [URL='http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-Div-ADS.html#mozTocId541017']LD-2000 to acquire, track and engage the inbound missiles.[/URL]
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-SAM-DefAids.html
Air Defence System Defensive Equipment

 

[Basel]

PAF don't have to worry about inducting true 5th gen fighter in its inventory till 2025 as IAF is not getting it till 2025 as per Indian, but to reduce the technological gap between two forces PAF must develop a stealthy variant of JF-17 as it is possible and will be much cheaper to develop as CAC already have many stealthy designs available based on FC-1.

A Stealth redesign of shape with out internal weapons bay (with 3 stealthy weapons pods & 2 stealthy conformal fuel tanks) will be easier to make as it will not have that much issues as a true 5th gen will have. Pakistan already had a MOU with China to develop stealthy variant of JF-17 as reported in media some time ago. If this kind of variant is developed then IAF air dominance is nearly equalized till they have their 5th gen jet but PAF had to build and start deploying it till 2019 to close gap in tech.

India unlikely to get its First Stealth Fighter FGFA before 2025

There are many ways to counter Anti Rradiation Missiles:
Air Defence System Defensive Aids

Please tell this to Indian member who think that they can take out Pakistani AEWCS easily with their long range anti radiation missile.

 

[Viper0011.]

we have 60+ PGs for this very purpose, countering a bison is not a big huff, it is as exaggerated as the mki despite being small and having a mediocre radar in kopyo with search range not exceeding 80 and track less than 65km. Similar to what PG has with grifo-7 PG radar. As for elta 8222b jammer, again, it is too much hoopla out of nothing since f-7 can also carry drfm capable KG-300G ecm pod. so the situation is pretty much at parity, perhaps slightly in PGs favor with a drfm jammer onboard.

How does this work? Please explain.....BISON with its "mediocre" radar fires two BVR's on an F-7, 55 KM's away (while the BISON is STILL 10 KM inside the Indian territory). Two Archers or other capable BVR's are chasing after an F-7.......how is this situation in F-7's favor???? Two capable missiles chasing after ANY jet is high risk and bad news and can destroy the jet. In fact, in BVR engagements, the pilots are trained to use two missiles per one enemy jet for a little short of a sure kill.

Now if you take my original example, 25 BISONS escorting 10 Jag's, the 25 BISONS fire the first BVR salvo from 60 KM's away on the incoming 25 F-7's......the F-7 has to run away or maneuver to get the missile off its tale. In the meantime, the Jag's either get closer to their target or actually get to the target and unleash the payload.

Say 70% (very high but let's run with it), of the F-7's survive the first missile barrage, by the time the missiles run out or lose the lock, the F-7's are now back in business to engage. At this time, low on fuel due to maneuvers and about 30KM's away......the BISONS now fire the second salvo of BVR missiles.....the F-7 has to maneuver or run away to avoid a hit. Whether the second salvo didn't destroy even ONE F-7 (almost 100% unlikely), but still, they couldn't counter the incoming strike force. The Jags drop their weapons on target and the entire formation returns without any air to air losses (with SAM based losses only and say that's 20%). So what did the F-7's achieve and how did anything go in their favor? The target still got hit by the Jags.....

 

[Burhan Wani]

Quality,quantity,Skills and Most important "Help from Allah and Faith in Holy Quran".

 

[Yeti]

Airpower will only be used once Brahmos has been fired on key military sites across Pakistan as well as SAM sites, runways etc this is what people have to understand in any future war with India.

 

[Kloitra]

Airpower will only be used once Brahmos has been fired on key military sites across Pakistan as well as SAM sites, runways etc this is what people have to understand in any future war with India.

Why do you not think that this will invite an equal retaliation?

 

[Abingdonboy]

we further need to understand that in next 3 years (2015-2017) India is not going to induct any new fighter aircraft in IAF or IN air arm and would be busy in modernization of some of its fleet, for PAF only known induction during this time period is JF-17 block-II (only 50 in numbers), so these 3 years provide us the 'window of opportunity' in which we can 'narrow the gap' of BVR capable fighters

This isn't true mate - the IAF is still inducting Su-30MKIs at a rate of around 1 SQD a year, orders will be complete in 2019 (all 272 in service) when the HAL production lines will switch over to the FGFA. Additionally the LCA is going to be produced from 2015 onwards (some squadron a/c are already under production. Additionally the IN is still yet to completely receive the last orders of their 45 MiG-29K/KUBs, which should happen in the next 12 months.

and 'upgraded' JAGs would not be available in next 3 years time frame

Yes they very much will be, the first DARIN III Jaguar first flew in late 2012:

Those Jags intended to be upgraded are undergoing upgrades as we speak and such work will be complete by 2017/18.