Poll: Turkey's possible future union

[Pakistanisage]

I wonder what would happen to him and his people if/when they would lose the next elections?
Only slap in the face?


Possible with the Iranian Mullahs in charge you think?

People act in terms of their interests.

If Iranians see the benefit in such a union, I am sure they will join this Union.

It is upto us to sell them the idea.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

It is inevitable for countries, especially the small ones, to unite with others due to some reasons. China is growing, Russia is taking it back; usa and the eu are getting closer. India is in the 1 place on the line.

WHO is left is the main market for those countries.

Muslim dominated countries still are bombing each other, so Ummah is a dream.

The eu is still led by France and Germany thar are blind to global World, still thanks to Usa tho. They are getting old day by day, but advanced in all respects.

Turan is the best option, but it has small population, long way to go in all respects.


... be close to the eu to have benefit of the advancement, be close to the ummah for energy and selling things, be very close to the Turan for the sake of the country.

 

[Hakan]

New world order

 

[rmi5]

Turkey doesnt have a great relationship with NATO. IMHO Turkey gives more than it takes from NATO. Turkey needed nato membership against the Soviets, which served western nations more than Turkey,

No, I don't agree with this part at all. If it was not for NATO, and if soviets were invading Turkey, Turkey would have suffered the most.

and since that threat is gone, nato is nothing but just a term on paper for Turkey,

There are always threats. For example, one of the reasons that mullahs are afraid to have serious conflict with Turkey, is the support of NATO for Turkey in such cases. NATO membership is somehow an immunization against some crazy hostile countries.

though the exp and nato standards are certainly a bonus to the Turkish army and military industry. I dont expect western countries to back up Turkey once the situation is just not worth for these western countries due their historical experience with Turks. I might be wrong, but it's again our fellow nato members who were cold about doing ToT with Turkey in the past while even non-nato members (even China) did ToT with Turkey. I think Turkey's role in nato can only be 'healthy' as long as Turkey acts in rule with the interest of certain western nations. Once Turkey will pursue its own interests more and more and be more assertive (as it should be), its relationship with certain western nations, which tried and try to bully Turkey in the past and present, will decrease to a certain degree automatically. Unfortunately, i think Turkey should stay in nato for the next few decades, hope for the best and wait till its economy and military has grown to a more serious level.

I wonder what other Turkish members are thinking about Nato.

NATO makes your military to obey some certain tough standards, which is good.
You will need to compromise your goals, if you want their cooperation. just consider the northern cyprus situation.
You have also a NATO nuclear support umbrella by around 90-100 nukes, which is very good.
IMO, it is better for Turkey to remain in NATO, but do not get delusional about NATO friendship and cooperation either. I really like the policy of France. they develop their own domestic products, and have their own agendas, but, they still keep in touch with NATO countries as well.
As a summary, my opinion is having a policy like France.

 

[kalu_miah]

Turkey doesnt have a great relationship with NATO. IMHO Turkey gives more than it takes from NATO. Turkey needed nato membership against the Soviets, which served western nations more than Turkey, and since that threat is gone, nato is nothing but just a term on paper for Turkey, though the exp and nato standards are certainly a bonus to the Turkish army and military industry. I dont expect western countries to back up Turkey once the situation is just not worth for these western countries due their historical experience with Turks. I might be wrong, but it's again our fellow nato members who were cold about doing ToT with Turkey in the past while even non-nato members (even China) did ToT with Turkey. I think Turkey's role in nato can only be 'healthy' as long as Turkey acts in rule with the interest of certain western nations. Once Turkey will pursue its own interests more and more and be more assertive (as it should be), its relationship with certain western nations, which tried and try to bully Turkey in the past and present, will decrease to a certain degree automatically. Unfortunately, i think Turkey should stay in nato for the next few decades, hope for the best and wait till its economy and military has grown to a more serious level.

I wonder what other Turkish members are thinking about Nato.
@rmi5 @atatwolf @asena_great @Sinan @Kaan @xenon54 @Oublious @T-123456 @xxxKULxxx @Combat-Master @cabatli_53 and others.

There will be a significant change in world geopolitical scenario in 15-20 years when China reaches parity with the US. When that happens, China will start augmenting SCO and turn it into a NATO like security alliance structure in Asia. Turkey will have the option to switch sides at that point, leave NATO and become a part of China led SCO. I believe SCO will have two main branches, one in Eurasia to the North and West of China and the 2nd in East Asia, South and East of China. This will be China's near abroad, sphere of influence, what ever you want to call it. I am not sure whether India will join SCO or remain nonaligned. My money is on India remaining nonaligned.

Both the Eurasian branch of SCO and East Asian branch of SCO may coalesce into viable Unions.

East Asian branch of SCO: ASEAN (minus Vietnam and Philippines) + Bangladesh + Sri Lanka + North Korea + South Korea (future) + Japan (future)

Eurasian branch of SCO:
Former Soviet countries that do not join EU + Turkey (future) + Iran + Afghanistan + Pakistan + Kurdish part of Iraq + Shia part of Iraq + Mongolia (future)

While China will remain the super core, the peripheral cores can be Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Russia and perhaps Iran and Indonesia, much later. The other nations will remain as semi periphery and periphery depending on their economic, growth performance and efficiency:
World-systems theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The goal of above SCO security structure is to
- provide security, stability and a platform for conflict management
- prevent hostile outside interference and resulting destabilization
- achieve economic integration and growth
just as it is happening in NATO and EU countries, so that eventually all member countries can become similar in GDP.

In the above unions, free flow of goods is possible, but not of people and no Euro like common currency should be introduced.

The West will not like to see such a structure, but the West did not ask the rest of the world when they formed NATO and EU, so I say to each his own. And when China reaches parity with the US, the West will be powerless to see China lead such a group of nations in a structure I have outlined above.

 

[usernameless]

There will be a significant change in world geopolitical scenario in 15-20 years when China reaches parity with the US. When that happens, China will start augmenting SCO and turn it into a NATO like security alliance structure in Asia. Turkey will have the option to switch sides at that point, leave NATO and become a part of China led SCO. I believe SCO will have two main branches, one in Eurasia to the North and West of China and the 2nd in East Asia, South and East of China. This will be China's near abroad, sphere of influence, what ever you want to call it. I am not sure whether India will join SCO or remain nonaligned. My money is on India remaining nonaligned.

Both the Eurasian branch of SCO and East Asian branch of SCO may coalesce into viable Unions.

East Asian branch of SCO: ASEAN (minus Vietnam and Philippines) + Bangladesh + Sri Lanka + North Korea + South Korea (future) + Japan (future)

Eurasian branch of SCO:
Former Soviet countries that do not join EU + Turkey (future) + Iran + Afghanistan + Pakistan + Kurdish part of Iraq + Shia part of Iraq + Mongolia (future)

While China will remain the super core, the peripheral cores can be Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Russia and perhaps Iran and Indonesia, much later. The other nations will remain as semi periphery and periphery depending on their economic, growth performance and efficiency:
World-systems theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The goal of above SCO security structure is to
- provide security, stability and a platform for conflict management
- prevent hostile outside interference and resulting destabilization
- achieve economic integration and growth
just as it is happening in NATO and EU countries, so that eventually all member countries can become similar in GDP.

In the above unions, free flow of goods is possible, but not of people and no Euro like common currency should be introduced.

The West will not like to see such a structure, but the West did not ask the rest of the world when they formed NATO and EU, so I say to each his own. And when China reaches parity with the US, the West will be powerless to see China lead such a group of nations in a structure I have outlined above.

Almost every Turk emotionally wishes for either an ummah and/or union with Turkic countries. I believe this mindset/awareness will only increase in the future when Turkey definitely say goodbye to the EU (Turkish public support for EU is already very low) and when Turkic countries get rid of abundant Russian influence, like cyrillic alphabet etc. Although this is just an emotional wish, realistically SCO could be an option for Turkey in the distant future, but for now it's impossible. It means Turkics should give up sovereignty for foreign rule makers. Plus Turkey and Russia are not even that warm with each other, so they wouldnt be too happy about Turkey (or China) gaining decisive influence in Central Asia, which will automatically translate to influence over Turkics inside Russian soil as well. I can understand Russia's and China's concern. SCO is not an option. Maybe in the future if things radically change.

 

[atatwolf]

^
Russian and Turkish ties are actually very good from what I read. Without Russian green light, we wouldn't be able to have such close ties with Turkic countries and set-up a Turkic counsil. Davutoglu said that Turkey is not competitor of Russia but a partner. Even most pro-Russian Turkic state: Kazakhstan is very pro-Turkic cooperation and he also said that he dream was to create a Turkic Union but if that is not possible that Turkic countries should have closest ties as possible.

 

[usernameless]

^
Russian and Turkish ties are actually very good from what I read. Without Russian green light, we wouldn't be able to have such close ties with Turkic countries and set-up a Turkic counsil. Davutoglu said that Turkey is not competitor of Russia but a partner. Even most pro-Russian Turkic state: Kazakhstan is very pro-Turkic cooperation and he also said that he dream was to create a Turkic Union but if that is not possible that Turkic countries should have closest ties as possible.

imo they only give green light to matters that don't harm them seriously. Russia wont mind good ties between Turkic countries, but anything that might threaten Russian influence on geopolitical and economical level won't be tolerated by them, im sure. They dont look warm to Trans caspian pipeline, they back Armenia against us etc = things that stand in our way to strengthen the relationship between Turkic countries, something we want, right? Personally, i wouldnt trust Russia so much.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

@usernameless

NATO ?.. It has have a few time... Not much...

 

[atatwolf]

imo they only give green light to matters that don't harm them seriously. Russia wont mind good ties between Turkic countries, but anything that might threaten Russian influence on geopolitical and economical level won't be tolerated by them, im sure. They dont look warm to Trans caspian pipeline, they back Armenia against us etc = things that stand in our way to strengthen the relationship between Turkic countries, something we want, right? Personally, i wouldnt trust Russia so much.

Those things you said is true but we also have shared values and interest with Russians. Such as keeping US out of the Black-sea. Keeping China out of Central-Asia. Also keep in mind that Russia is a declining power. Balance of power is changing and Russia wants good relation with Turks to secure that flank. Russia is more concerned about Western flank because NATO is pushing there. I listened to a panel about this subject so this is not completely my opinion but opinion of geo-political analysist.

 

[B+ Dracula]

Ummah would be my last choice too. I think if you look how some Muslim turn on their Muslim brothers at the blink of an eye it is eye opening. Just have a look in the uighur support thread and how many Pakistani support the crimes the Chinese commit on uighur civilians.

It is better to be part of the winning club instead of the loosers club. Also lets be realistic we have no political, economic and military independence to kick NATO bases out of Turkey. It would cause major escalation of tentions between US and Turkey.

WoW...finally u realized

My observation which is just an observation is that Pakistani feel more connected to China than Turkey.
There was a thread few months ago and a poll. The poll asked if you had to choose Turkey or China which one would you choose? Majority of Pakistani choose China over Turkey.
There is nothing wrong with that. We just have to state the truth.

We must follow LOGIC while presenting our stance, like War b/t Pak vs (japan vs korea vs new zealand) are rubbish talk & same goes with "China vs Turkey"........You've nearly no Geographical affiliation with each other...

i do believe though that Pakistani bros and sisters only choose China because China offers them more than Turkey does now. We cannot protect Pakistan against India. Neither do we have much serious systems to sell them yet. Neither do we have the international political nor economical card to back them up. Most importantly, we are far away in bad times. If i was Pakistani, i would have chosen China as well. bitter reality. But i do trust that Pakistani bros and sisters would have voted for Turkey if Turkey could have been an equal alternative for China.

Good, Only 1 Example , Political Chaos 1971, India sudden attacked pakistan, country dismembered into two, East Front(BENGAL REVOLTED US) total disaster, West front (Main Pakistan, battles were lost) country saved by immediate CHINESE INTERVENTION TO STOP WAR Or FACE THE CONSEQUENCES .....

I agree im also tired of all these childish discussions, Pakistan is and will stay our bro Nation no matter what other bootlickers say.

THANKS

Are you trying to troll turks?!!! seriously dude, you are 2-3 centuries behind any turkic country, and even the most fanatic turk has a more civilized mentality than even your intellectuals.

In short, do not talk about the stuff that you have no idea about. Instead, stick to your own taliban and warlords, and beg them for some Hashish money

What's your super duper ideology? torturing and stoning your women? selling Hashish? lack of toilets? Living standards like a sub-saharan african country? The list is very long. Your ideology only suits for backward rapists and thieves of medieval era, not a modern world country. modern world works based on secularism, and humanism.

Touching fringes of RACISM ...... REMEMBER role of Pakistan in your Independence with ur all Central Asian Turk BUDDIES

 

[rmi5]

Touching fringes of RACISM ...... REMEMBER role of Pakistan in your Independence with ur all Central Asian Turk BUDDIES

What role?

 

[atatwolf]

What role?

I'm also wondering that since Pakistan didn't even exist back then

 

[B+ Dracula]

What role?

I'm also wondering that since Pakistan didn't even exist back then

1989 Soviet Cold War that Dissolved USSR & Emergence of Central Asian Muslim States

 

[rmi5]

1989 Soviet Cold War that Dissolved USSR & Emergence of Central Asian Muslim States

What it has to do with Pakistan?