PN New Helicopter Procurement

[Yasser76]

Just wanted to start a thread of this, as there seems to be a very urgent operational need for new medium sized helicopters for Pakistan Navy.

1) PN is acquiring 10 new platforms that will require helicopters 4 of these are Chinese (Type 54 Frigates) and 6 Western (MILGEM/DAMEN Frigate/Corvettes). Additionally the single OHP, 2 F-22P Frigates and 2 tankers will need helicopters. Also MSA operate 2 light corvettes that have helipads. So potentially 17 ships that require helicopters for various roles.

2) PN is retiring or has retired it's 7 Aloutte 3 helicopters and has 6 Z-9s and 8 Sea Kings remaining. The Z-9s while relatively new lack a missile capability or cannot be integrated with Western systems. The Sea Kings have been upgraded but are shore based and also cannot be used off smaller ships, also Sea Kings are often needed to support SSGN.

3) This leaves a massive capability gap, as this year and next years new ships will start being delivered and also older helicopters being withdrawn. Pak Navy needs to start inducting and training on new helicopters now but we have not even placed any orders yet. Chance most of our fleet will be without helicopter support

 

[BHarwana]

Just wanted to start a thread of this, as there seems to be a very urgent operational need for new medium sized helicopters for Pakistan Navy.

1) PN is acquiring 10 new platforms that will require helicopters 4 of these are Chinese (Type 54 Frigates) and 6 Western (MILGEM/DAMEN Frigate/Corvettes). Additionally the single OHP, 2 F-22P Frigates and 2 tankers will need helicopters. Also MSA operate 2 light corvettes that have helipads. So potentially 17 ships that require helicopters for various roles.

2) PN is retiring or has retired it's 7 Aloutte 3 helicopters and has 6 Z-9s and 8 Sea Kings remaining. The Z-9s while relatively new lack a missile capability or cannot be integrated with Western systems. The Sea Kings have been upgraded but are shore based and also cannot be used off smaller ships, also Sea Kings are often needed to support SSGN.

3) This leaves a massive capability gap, as this year and next years new ships will start being delivered and also older helicopters being withdrawn. Pak Navy needs to start inducting and training on new helicopters now but we have not even placed any orders yet. Chance most of our fleet will be without helicopter support

I think PN is getting new helicopters already. We have 8 ships in pipeline and each will have its helicopter. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Yasser76]

I think PN is getting new helicopters already. We have 8 ships in pipeline and each will have its helicopter. Please correct me if I am wrong.

No, ships do not automatically come with helicopters. This is a seperate package and must be purchased from Helicopter manufacturer. PN has made no purchses

 

[BHarwana]

No, ships do not automatically come with helicopters. This is a seperate package and must be purchased from Helicopter manufacturer. PN has made no purchses

Yes it is separate package but each ship will get its helicopter. The ships are of Turkish origin and Chinese origin.

 

[Yasser76]

Yes it is separate package but each ship will get its helicopter. The ships are of Turkish origin and Chinese origin.

I am not so sure, ships will be coming soon and PN has not even ordered more helicopters. It will take at least 2 years to get them from signing of order

 

[Imran Khan]

but 10 more z9s and forget rest

 

[The Accountant]

Just wanted to start a thread of this, as there seems to be a very urgent operational need for new medium sized helicopters for Pakistan Navy.

1) PN is acquiring 10 new platforms that will require helicopters 4 of these are Chinese (Type 54 Frigates) and 6 Western (MILGEM/DAMEN Frigate/Corvettes). Additionally the single OHP, 2 F-22P Frigates and 2 tankers will need helicopters. Also MSA operate 2 light corvettes that have helipads. So potentially 17 ships that require helicopters for various roles.

2) PN is retiring or has retired it's 7 Aloutte 3 helicopters and has 6 Z-9s and 8 Sea Kings remaining. The Z-9s while relatively new lack a missile capability or cannot be integrated with Western systems. The Sea Kings have been upgraded but are shore based and also cannot be used off smaller ships, also Sea Kings are often needed to support SSGN.

3) This leaves a massive capability gap, as this year and next years new ships will start being delivered and also older helicopters being withdrawn. Pak Navy needs to start inducting and training on new helicopters now but we have not even placed any orders yet. Chance most of our fleet will be without helicopter support

I think it is z9 is linkes with link17 and hence can share data with sll other assets.

 

[V. Makarov]

Can experienced members tell me what do the helicopters on these frigates do other than rescue of fishermen?

 

[Yasser76]

but 10 more z9s and forget rest

Z-9 has limited range, cannot carry anti-ship missiles and unsure if it can be integrated to provide targetung for western systems

Can experienced members tell me what do the helicopters on these frigates do other than rescue of fishermen?

Can act as long range targeting for ships missiles, can carry own missiles for anti-ship missons, can be used for SAR, can be used to detect enemy submarines, can be used to move sick/injured personnel to shore, can be used in anti-terror/anti-piracy role by on board special forces.

 

[Mir Shahzain]

AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat

LEONARDO NH90

​

Best options for PN as PAF and PA is already using Leonardo AgustaWestland AW139 for SAR operations and these will be available for PN

 

[PAR 5]

Need Yes, Money No

 

[Yasser76]

AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat
View attachment 600694
LEONARDO NH90
View attachment 600695
​

Best options for PN as PAF and PA is already using Leonardo AgustaWestland AW139 for SAR operations and these will be available for PN

Good idea, issue is Leanardo has not made dedicated Maritime version of AW139 yet

 

[aziqbal]

glad someone understands I have been saying it for years

simple reason is ignorance, all the established powers have them

Chinese are totally guilty of it too, building scores of warships and zero helicopters

basically lack of naval strategy they have more LPD and LHD than choppers

warships have TAS, VDS and bow sonar but the helicopter provides mobile ASW platform and any submarines captain worst nightmare

many countries who are new to naval affairs are guilty of not providing helicopters

 

[BHarwana]

There are multiple uses of helicopters with ships.
Helicopters are used for early warning, supplies anti submarine warfare, costal infiltration, anti ship roles, search and rescue, transportation, surveillance and so on.
Before you want to revolve around the ship based helicopters you first have to identify what role are you looking for. Example if you want early warning role then PN uses aircrafts and not ship based helicopters for that role. If you are looking for search and rescue in that case PN uses helicopters already which include a mix of sea king and others. Now coming to anti submarine role for that if you remember last year February when Indian navy sub tried to infiltrate PN was able to track it. The asset used to track the sub was not declared so it will be hard to say that PN uses helos of aircrafts but they have the capability.
My question is you have shown great concern but please also explain role PN lack via helicopter and I will be able to answer you in an appropriate manner.

https://twitter.com/x/status/869996821006831617

 

[Yasser76]

There are multiple uses of helicopters with ships.
Helicopters are used for early warning, supplies anti submarine warfare, costal infiltration, anti ship roles, search and rescue, transportation, surveillance and so on.
Before you want to revolve around the ship based helicopters you first have to identify what role are you looking for. Example if you want early warning role then PN uses aircrafts and not ship based helicopters for that role. If you are looking for search and rescue in that case PN uses helicopters already which include a mix of sea king and others. Now coming to anti submarine role for that if you remember last year February when Indian navy sub tried to infiltrate PN was able to track it. The asset used to track the sub was not declared so it will be hard to say that PN uses helos of aircrafts but they have the capability.
My question is you have shown great concern but please also explain role PN lack via helicopter and I will be able to answer you in an appropriate manner.

https://twitter.com/x/status/869996821006831617

Main role is of targeting of enemy ships and submairnes. As I said previously small ships cannot deploy with Sea King, also we only have limited number of Sea Kings. Helicopters can act as over the horizon targeting for ships and can also detect submarines before they become a threat to the ship. These are absolutely vital for any warship and our effectiveness will be severely diminished without onboard helicopters.