PLAN gives presentation on type 055 and 057 next Gen

[TOPGUN]

If decided I think PN will go with Type 57.

 

[Tank131]

If decided I think PN will go with Type 57.

Well, again I think it will depend on what PN's situation is and what the cost of acquisitions are and what setup the various ships would look like. If Type 057 is 4500t and comes with HQ-16 or DK-10 (total 48 cells) only and no longer range weapons like HHQ-9, but MILGEM-G, which is ~3000t, comes with quad-packed CAMM, then the MILGEM is the better ship. Will be smaller and likely less expensive to operate, while carrying more weapons (16 AShM and 64 SAMs with longer range than DK-10 or HQ-16. Of course if as many people suspect, there will be a quad-packable variant of DK-10, then the Type 057 is again the better choice.

On the other hand, if Type 057 can field HQ-9 (which I suspect it can), then it would be the more logical choice (32 medium rang and 16 long range SAMs with 24 cell short range FL-3000N missiles and 2 CIWS).

However, if possible, PN could field a mix of both ships which would be the most beneficial. If PN can acquire 4 MILGEM-G with construction rights, and 2 Type 057 (provided long range SAM like HQ-9 is possible) with options for more down the road, that is the best senario, but may be cost prohibitive. However, if possible, you would utilize the Type 057 for fleet level defense and command ship while MILGEM-G and F-22P (hopefully upgraded) would form the bulk of the fleet.

 

[Banglar Bir]

There are 3 profiles of false flaggers using Pakistani flags bashing China, Pak Army and Turkey. @HAKIKAT is a witness to that, when I exposed one.

Mate if its a life threatening situation, you need to migrate, really sad to hear the loss of your loved ones. May God bless you and keep you in his safety.

MANY MANY THANKS FOR EXPRESSING YOUR KIND SENTIMENTS, HOWEVER IF ALL OF US MIGRATE FEARING FOR OUR LIVES, WHO ALL WOULD BE LEFT BEHIND FOR ENSURING THE UPLIFTMENT AND WELFARE OF THE MILLIONS OF OUR POOR SEMI EDUCATED INNOCENT CITIZENS BASIC RIGHTS, WELFARE,EFC?

COWARDS DIE A MILLION TIMES, BRAVES ONE EMBRACES DEATH WITH A SMILE. EARTHLY LIFE IS VERY SHORT, ONLY ALMIGHTY TEST FOR US , FOR THE NEXT ETERNAL LIFE.,

WE ALL HAVE BEEN SENT TO THIS EARTH, JUST TO SERVE REAL ISLAM , CONTRIBUTE WITHIN OUR LIMITED SCOPES AND BRING POSITIVE CHANGES .FOR THE ENTIRE HUMANITY, IRRESPECTIVE OF OUR RELIGION, CASTE,COLOR, RACE,ETC, ALMIGHTY HAS CREATED A BEAUTIFUL PLANET CALLED EARTH, LETS US ALL TRY TO PRESERVE ITS BEAUTY, INSTEAD OF DESTROYING IT.

THAT'S ALMIGHTY'S TEACHING. WE SHOULD FEAR NO ONE ELSE EXCEPT ALMIGHTY ALLAH.AND STAND FIRMLY AGAINST ALL EVILS
.
MIGRATE,? NEVER. INSHALLAH, I PRAY TO BE BURIED IN MY COUNTRIES SOIL, WHENEVER ALMIGHTY DECIDES.

MEAN WHILE LETS CONTINUE UNITEDLY TO FIGHT AGAINST ALL OPPRESSIVE FORCES AND INJUSTICES AGAINST HUMANITY BY THE DARK FORCES OF EVIL.

.I RENEW MY COMMITMENTS TO STAND BESIDE OUR MUSLIM BROTHERS, AGAINST THE OPPRESSIONS CARRIED OUT AGAINST THE MILLIONS OF INNOCENT/HELPLESS MUSLIMS IN KASHMIR, MYANMAR, PALESTINE,SYRIA, YEMEN,IRAQ, AND ELSEWHERE ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE.. THAT'S MY PROMISE.

SALAM AND ALLAH HAFIZ

 

[rcrmj]

@Penguin, the reports talking about 057 startimg construction may have prooved false but the design is real and not fan art. The model was presented at Ideas 2016. I will try to find the link but 1 week ago i had posted the image of it in the 057 thread. As you stated it had 48 vls cells (32 in front and 16 midship) and 2 2x2 boxes for 8 AShM, 2 gatling style ciws midship and a fl3000n launcher above the hangar. It is model appearing exactly like the fan art described, now whether its actually called 057 im not sure. If it is displayed at IDEAS it is logical to assume it is for export. As per old reports it is to be on 4500t range which seems about right, but question is, if PN is going for MILGEM-G, can it afford t057? Im not sure it can but I'd hope it could get 2-4

As PN getting 24 as @Zarvan keeps stating and using them for LACM, it is 1)not doable d/t cost and 2)foolish to waste precious space on LACM when PN doctrine for land attack will likely be carried through submarines not surface vessels, but he will continue down the unrealistic belief road.

055 is likely not for Pakistan. Not necessarily because China would refuse it, but more because PN cant do much with such a large ship. It would likely take half of PNs operating budget on that ship alone, far better as @Penguin said, to get multiple smaller ships.

'institutions' from respective sectors in China, are chunking out hundreds of new designs annually of current kits' upgrades or conceptual stuffs`````so this art work for so-called '057' doesnt mean anything in real time````as there is no project or new frigate platform called '057' for the time being. as the PLAN had already picked 054B, over a more radical competing design, as 054A's successor ```

but I can assume, PN will be getting 054A's variant in near future, and its deadly. most sophisticated and efficient in its class in that region!

 

[Muhammad Omar]

'institutions' from respective sectors in China, are chunking out hundreds of new designs annually of current kits' upgrades or conceptual stuffs`````so this art work for so-called '057' doesnt mean anything in real time````as there is no project or new frigate platform called '057' for the time being. as the PLAN had already picked 054B, over a more radical competing design, as 054A's successor ```

but I can assume, PN will be getting 054A's variant in near future, and its deadly. most sophisticated and efficient in its class in that region!

Bro which Frigate is this ?? This Frigate was showcased at IDEAS 2016 Pakistan and was offered to Pakistan Navy..

The Submarine is S-20 i guess

To me looks like Type 057ish

 

[Naif al Hilali]

MANY MANY THANKS FOR EXPRESSING YOUR KIND SENTIMENTS, HOWEVER IF ALL OF US MIGRATE FEARING FOR OUR LIVES, WHO ALL WOULD BE LEFT BEHIND FOR ENSURING THE UPLIFTMENT AND WELFARE OF THE MILLIONS OF OUR POOR SEMI EDUCATED INNOCENT CITIZENS BASIC RIGHTS, WELFARE,EFC?

COWARDS DIE A MILLION TIMES, BRAVES ONE EMBRACES DEATH WITH A SMILE. EARTHLY LIFE IS VERY SHORT, ONLY ALMIGHTY TEST FOR US , FOR THE NEXT ETERNAL LIFE.,

WE ALL HAVE BEEN SENT TO THIS EARTH, JUST TO SERVE REAL ISLAM , CONTRIBUTE WITHIN OUR LIMITED SCOPES AND BRING POSITIVE CHANGES .FOR THE ENTIRE HUMANITY, IRRESPECTIVE OF OUR RELIGION, CASTE,COLOR, RACE,ETC, ALMIGHTY HAS CREATED A BEAUTIFUL PLANET CALLED EARTH, LETS US ALL TRY TO PRESERVE ITS BEAUTY, INSTEAD OF DESTROYING IT.

THAT'S ALMIGHTY'S TEACHING. WE SHOULD FEAR NO ONE ELSE EXCEPT ALMIGHTY ALLAH.AND STAND FIRMLY AGAINST ALL EVILS
.
MIGRATE,? NEVER. INSHALLAH, I PRAY TO BE BURIED IN MY COUNTRIES SOIL, WHENEVER ALMIGHTY DECIDES.

MEAN WHILE LETS CONTINUE UNITEDLY TO FIGHT AGAINST ALL OPPRESSIVE FORCES AND INJUSTICES AGAINST HUMANITY BY THE DARK FORCES OF EVIL.

.I RENEW MY COMMITMENTS TO STAND BESIDE OUR MUSLIM BROTHERS, AGAINST THE OPPRESSIONS CARRIED OUT AGAINST THE MILLIONS OF INNOCENT/HELPLESS MUSLIMS IN KASHMIR, MYANMAR, PALESTINE,SYRIA, YEMEN,IRAQ, AND ELSEWHERE ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE.. THAT'S MY PROMISE.

SALAM AND ALLAH HAFIZ

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Narrated 'Urwa bin Az-Zubair:
I asked 'Abdullah bin 'Amr, "What was the worst thing the pagans did to Allah's Apostle?" He said, "I saw 'Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait coming to the Prophet while he was praying.' Uqba put his sheet round the Prophet's neck and squeezed it very severely. Abu Bakr came and pulled 'Uqba away from the Prophet and said, "Do you intend to kill a man just because he says: 'My Lord is Allah, and he has brought forth to you the Evident Signs from your Lord?"
(Sahih Bukhari Vol. 5, Book 57 Companions of the Prophet #27)

The Ayah Uthman bin Affan was reading when he was martyred:

"So if they believe in the same as you believe in, then they have been [rightly] guided; but if they turn away, they are only in dissension, and Allah will be sufficient for you against them. And He is the All Hearing, the All Knowing."
(AlBaqarah 137)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The only thing in the PN roadmap for now is further improved F-22P derivatives. 8 Frigate sized (as if these classes mean anything anymore) around 3000-3500 tons(if possible extended sizes are to be accomodated), 6 Corvettes to augment and carry out lighter operations.. and some 12 FACs.

The greater focus is on the Submarine branch which depending on the economy could expand to as many as 14 boats!(if the optimistic ones at the office of DCNS Projects have their way)

I think we need to think about a few things because of the irrelevance of 'classes' now...

The Turkish shipbuilder STM said they're in talks for 4 MILGEM warships to Pakistan and are aiming to ink a contract in 2017. The problem with the MILGEM, be it the Ada-class or the Istanbul-class, is that they're basically 2,400-tons and 3,000-tons, respectively. This is "frigate" territory in terms of cost. So, I think the 2,500 to 3,000-ton segment is the PN's "frigate" and will comprise of improved F-22P and/or MILGEM-G.

The "corvette" would be a sub-1,000-ton ship such as the Azmat-class (which I've seen PN officials call a "corvette") and the STM FAC-55. These are 500-750-ton vessels.

FAC could be sub-300-ton ships akin to the MRTP-33 or Type 022, i.e. fast low-cost missile boats.

As for submarines. Maybe it would be wise for the Navy to link up with Turkey on its MILDEN indigenous submarine program? That should come online around the time when the Navy would need to consider replacing the Agosta 90Bs.

 

[Kompromat]

Nothing can shoot those subs. AIP subs are even more quieter than Virginia class subs!

From the people I know, the feeling is after the submarine project is completed. Need a powerful "destroyer" level protection for subs to operate safe from P8 type air threat.

 

[Zarvan]

Nothing can shoot those subs. AIP subs are even more quieter than Virginia class subs!

We don't need submarines to counter submarines. They can help but not that much to counter submarines we need submarines but to take war deep inside India specially in south of India we need cruise missile equipped destroyers and Frigates which can hit India hard also in future other enemies. Specially one in Middle East.

 

[Tank131]

Bro which Frigate is this ?? This Frigate was showcased at IDEAS 2016 Pakistan and was offered to Pakistan Navy..

The Submarine is S-20 i guess

To me looks like Type 057ish

Thank you, these were the pics I was look for. I find ot interesting how people are quick to say that only advanded design on offer is c28 when this thing was sitting in the display hall of IDEAS 2016.

 

[Basel]

I am wondering what type of VLS SAM is available for export? If 057 frigate is really for export. HQ-16 is too big to install on 057.

What about DK-10 or any new SAM? Or for PN a western or South African SAM?

Rafi Sahab, is right. Presentation included other things as well. What will be bought remains to seen.

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...-pakistani-waters.461722/page-55#post-8938520

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...-from-china-turkey.463041/page-5#post-8952570

@Khafee FYI

Can you please share details of what is presented to PN?

 

[Indus Falcon]

Can you please share details of what is presented to PN?

What is important is, what package will be selected, which is still in the air. So lets hope we increase the pace of our procurements and buy good stuff.

 

[Penguin]

It is F22P variant but not 054. Check the height of the VLS above the deck

Here C28A for Algeria, a newer variation on F22P (no stack! > exhaust vented at/below waterline)

As compared to the alledged Type 057 (note stack)

As compared to export variant 054

@Penguin, the reports talking about 057 startimg construction may have prooved false but the design is real and not fan art. The model was presented at Ideas 2016. I will try to find the link but 1 week ago i had posted the image of it in the 057 thread. As you stated it had 48 vls cells (32 in front and 16 midship) and 2 2x2 boxes for 8 AShM, 2 gatling style ciws midship and a fl3000n launcher above the hangar. It is model appearing exactly like the fan art described, now whether its actually called 057 im not sure. If it is displayed at IDEAS it is logical to assume it is for export. As per old reports it is to be on 4500t range which seems about right, but question is, if PN is going for MILGEM-G, can it afford t057? Im not sure it can but I'd hope it could get 2-4

THen it certainly isn't building for PLAN, as was claimed. And there have been no exports as yet.

 

[Tank131]

@Beast wby would HQ16 be too large for 057?The ship is supposed to be in roughly 4500t...thats larger than 054A which has 32 HQ16.