PL-15 export version data officially released by China

[ProudPak]

I'm just saying that Pakistan has a precedent for obtaining the original PLA Weapons. I can't guarantee that Pakistan can obtain the original PL15. Because I have no definite news.
But now that PL15 has been licensed for export, Pakistan will certainly get it right away.

China and Pakistan have a common enemy...the enemy wanted a 2 front war. Be careful what you wish for

 

[serenity]

PAF certainly will use PL-15. They cannot remain with PL-12 in future years. Missiles developing pretty fast and newer ones that are secretly already used use some interesting and normal expected developments like boosters and scramjets and going to HGV maybe with aerodynamic methods of riding hypersonic shockwaves.

Just putting boosters is a cheaper and easy solution to improve range and energy but one good way and just because they don't show and say like Indians from when they even start a project, the Chinese will test and test and on the way to perfect before it is even mentioned.

PL-2x is also getting old like PL-15. Big boys are moving ahead faster and meanwhile India is proud to copy dual pulse motor BVR and still working on it. Surya the cheap one will brag and brag when testing platforms are just being fired still lol but pick on the fact some stupid or confused members who said PL-15 is 300km.

How can Pakistan not get PL-15? MH-Yang? PL-15 is not some high secret and has not been high secret since 2015 at least. Today there are much better missiles available but not in such high production since they must be more complicated, advanced and expensive to produce. Maybe more parts and difficult to manufacture parts of more exotic materials.

PL-15 is like a better PL-12 with more advanced seekers and a dual pulse engine. Even PL-12 modern versions must have updated engines and fuel. PL-15 is no longer too important or rare to guard against exporting. It is matured and old technology now. China like the USA has stuff 10 years ahead which won't be whispered much about but when they show it, it is shown to already have been in use. PL-15 was just like that and EMP weapon too that was supposed tested for first time lol sorry but that's just announcement to intelligence officers that this also exists so complicate your planning as we move ahead and keep the next secret.

 

[Keysersoze]

Don't worry Khan saheb. India's SFDR missile with 340 km range is under testing.

So if past indicators are to be applied it will be in service in 20 yrs or so?

 

[siegecrossbow]

i was talking about real missile not those whom press and sound chal chaiyaaa chaiyaan i mean real countries whom produce misisle US/CHINA/RUSSIA /EU

My super dupper puff the magic dragon AAM has a maximum range of 20,000 kilometers against maneuvering targets with an RCS of 0.005 and above. It can hit the target after circling the earth three times at Mach 11 speeds.

 

[serenity]

China and Pakistan have a common enemy...the enemy wanted a 2 front war. Be careful what you wish for

There is simply no way PAF will be happy to continue using PL-12 they received as export version from 2010s. PAF will require longer reach missiles and more advanced ones since Indian purchases move ahead with things like Meteor and R-77M and maybe R-37M in secret as a new weapon for their MKI.

No way China and Pakistan would be comfortable allowing PAF to only have JF-17 block 1 and 2 shooting older SD-10 missiles.

JF-17 block 3's whole point is to improve sensor and shot capability. It is a cheap way to increase capability without having to spend money developing new fighters and complicated big design changes.

New radar of AESA technology and new improved missiles like PL-15 and PL-10 is minimum. India already has Rafales flying but enough block 3 acquired at much lower prices than India's Rafales would be the counter balance. It can boast near even sensor and missiles. The rest is about electronic masking and pushing down enemy while your fighter's sensors break through their electronic masking and pushing. This is helped with more fighters which block 3 will provide compared to Rafale.

So suggesting PL-15 is out of reach is just not likely since it is required and it is now not anything new or secretive. We can see it is offered for export but export are governed by rules and other nations expressing concern for example we cannot export long range rockets to certain countries in case Israel or Saudi Arabia or Iran etc become annoyed at us since we also want good terms with them. So export models for something like PL-15 will 100% be dumbed down unlike something like VT-4 compared to Type 96. The sensitivity and military tech ladder is higher for a BVR missile and more important. Since Pakistan has direct security concerns that overlap with ours of course the access is different.

 

[Vapnope]

Guys learn to ignore Surya. He will claim that India is testing 3000km range a2a missile and all chinese and Pakistani missiles and equipment is garbage. This guy is Guru Dutt 2.0. Modi k chotay chotay phenku londay !

 

[DJ_Viper]

300km for a BVR missile is unrealistically long.

And Surya being the cheap Indian who will use this Pakistani member errors of claiming 300km for a BVR missile is going low to say look you said 300km and it's 150km. Not caring he is just taking incorrect information which was only promoted by clueless memebrs and then measuring PL-15 against that impossible number.

PL-15 from day 1 hinted range was around 150km. This is even for PLAAF used ones but 150km is assuming as minimum range just like cruise missile range even though CJ-10 can go far further than 2000km is still specification wise stated as >1500km.

10 years ago this might be the truth due to slower speed. But with Ramjet, Scramjet and then Hypersonic missile systems, 300 KM is not that big of a deal in the next ten years. These missiles will become essentially drones or hunter-killer vehicles.

I follow this site a lot. They post great military news. Boeing is revealing a concept of such hunter-killer vehicles soon. It may blow our mind when the true range is disclosed to the media.

Boeing unveils Long-Range Air-to-Air Missile concept – Western Media

westernmedia.org

 

[siegecrossbow]

Guys learn to ignore Surya. He will claim that India is testing 3000km range a2a missile and all chinese and Pakistani missiles and equipment is garbage. This guy is Guru Dutt 2.0. Modi k chotay chotay phenku londay !

His missile is no match for puff the magic dragon, which has seven times the range and could shoot down alien space fighters.

 

[Song Hong]

I am not sure about the success rate of long range bvr aam.

 

[serenity]

Guys learn to ignore Surya. He will claim that India is testing 3000km range a2a missile and all chinese and Pakistani missiles and equipment is garbage. This guy is Guru Dutt 2.0. Modi k chotay chotay phenku londay !

Since 2018 he has been saying "my barati ooootum rheyda is hiper and bestest in world after F-22".

I still remember this cheap Indian saying uttam will be ready and be the best radar in Asia lol.

Even today their airforce is not too happy with piece of shit uttam and the radar looks like something I can build in a few hours just to fool a stupid government official. No testing no exports. Our radars are exported and in third party trials like the one done in Turkey showed at least better than Russian and older American ones.

Let's remember our tech industry difference. We have satellites that can provide pinpoint accuracy and running SAR before Indians learned how to pronounce it. We've finished Type 346 before their bullshit drdo and baratielectronics could boast about fake AESA modules they totally do not have and brag about but mysteriously never use.

They never use the garbage they brag about constantly and yet most have been finished for years.

Since day 1 back in the 1970s we had to rely on ourselves. We could only learn from whatever we can access and our poor industrial level back then but every step is taken and lessons learned and things done and mastered.

We have Type 346B while Indians boast about new 3D radar lol. In one month our companies can develop and produce more than they can in 20 years. And these cheap trolls have nothing except talking shit on the internet. No one respects Indian bullshit power and ability. Only two or three things exported were returned to India. Their Agni missile has more chance of detonating over India than reaching anywhere outside it.

Uttam garbage, three years after bragging and 10 years after project, still not used and still useless.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I am not sure about the success rate of long rằng bvr aam.

The real important parameter is the NEZ. Max range could change a lot depending on the speed and altitude of respective planes. Most of the max range you hear about is based on two aircraft flying towards each other at high altitude at Mach 1.2.

 

[iLION12345_1]

If you know a bit about missiles, Then the range is about what was always expected, it’s unlikely non-export version has a much longer range than this one either.

First of all, BVR range is a rather Useless and arbitrary figure because the range varies so vastly depending on the launch conditions.
The altitude, weather, aircraft speed, angle at which it is fired, aircraft capability, size of enemy aircraft, And so many more things come into play, the same missile that can go 200KM in ideal conditions might not even reach 100KM in bad conditions.

The “145” KM range they have estimated is likely under fair-good conditions, under ideal ones it would go a fair bit beyond that, in bad conditions it wouldn’t go 2/3rds that. It’s just how BVRs work.

That's why at the end of the day range is a rather poor factor to judge a missiles capability, in that regard we don’t know anything about any modern BVR missiles thats concrete, I’d expect a similar range from Meteor and AIM120D under the same conditions And I wouldn’t say one is better than the other until any of them get a combat record.

Now to be absolutely clear, 145+ KM is a massive range and with the other upgrades they’ve likely added to the missile It’s very likely Comparable with the best of the rest of the world (Meteor, AIM120D). Anyone who thought this thing could go over 200KM was sadly getting baited by fake numbers that someone had made up and then everyone started quoting. The missile is simply not big enough.

The only missiles currently getting ranges beyond 200KM are the ones that follow a parabolic path to achieve them, something they usually specifically do to target larger airplanes like AWACS and Tankers, PL-21/PLXX is known to be able to do this (and the Russian R37M with its quoted range of nearly 400KM). PL-15 , Meteor and AIM120D cannot do this.

 

[untitled]

I am not sure about the success rate of long range bvr aam.

The option to use short range missiles and guns is always there

 

[serenity]

I am not sure about the success rate of long range bvr aam.

You are not sure but the people with the information and playing and testing for years are sure about exactly what they can and cannot do down to millimeter and millisecond.

Their action seem to suggest the 2010 level long range missiles like R-37M and PL-2x since these are the only two on the planet that was not secret between 2010 and now, are only for large and slow targets like AWACS or fuel planes. They are unlikely to be as useful for agile and fast fighters since they can be tracked more easily due to larger size if nothing else and they require guidance but no fighter radar has 300km or so range that is really useful. The Su-35's brag doesn't count because it is near useless in 90% of situations and 99% of realistic situations since no good airforce will allow such Su-35 capability to be exploited at all.

 

[JamD]

So question:
How is the PL-15 achieving significantly greater kinematic performance than the PL-12 while basically being the same size?

	PL-12	PL-15	Difference
Length	3934 mm	3996 mm	+62 mm
Weight	199 kg	210 kg	+11 kg
Diameter	203 mm	203 mm	Nil
Max Range	70 km	145 km	+75 km

This has to be some revolutionary progress in rocket motors. Or PL-12 was undersold or the PL-15 is being oversold.

Using this for data: