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Pipeline may isolate Pakistan globally

:cheesy: dint know a gas pipeline will propduce oil.

damn the americans should take this breaking news for stopping the project. they must take Indians' help

looks like some one just got ...khair jane do salaam pesh kerta hoon jana Bibi Ji :D
 
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@Dillinger I think the whole point of pursuing this deal right now is to have a leverage. US want to keep some presence in Afghanistan even after 2014 and hence need Pakistan to pursue negotiations with Taliban. Even after a deal is done they will still going to need us to keep Taliban from exploding. Until now no one knows if there will going to be a deal or not so question is what will going to happen with US withdrawal if there is no safe pullout. I wont be surprised if they just run with tail b/w their legs.

The presence that the US intends to keep in minimal at best and it does not require a logistics network as intensive as the GLOC. The "leverage" is hardly leverage but rather an attempt at assuaging the energy crisis in Pakistan. It is a commendable effort, personally I think the whole Iran issue itself is hogwash and unnecessary even though I'm through and though pro-Israel. The US doesn't particularly care about Afghanistan, not with the same intensity as you would assume- not when the interests of KSA and Israel are concerned. Contrary to popular belief the chief ally of the US is actually KSA and not Israel (relatively speaking) and their influence in the US senate is pervasive- these are the fellows who got the US to back off as Pakistan struck out to develop its nukes. Besides there are plenty more countries which will push Pakistan to get the Taliban on the table, chief among them being China. When it comes to Afghanistan US and Chinese interests converge, China is the biggest investor in the natural resources block in Af- larger than India or the US- you think they will let the Pakistani establishment slide by while their economic interests are hurt? The Taliban is a no go for China- for simple reasons, no company will insure and underwrite any business venture in Taliban controlled Af- and that's just one of the hurdles that'll bring Chinese ventures in the region down if Pakistan doesn't play ball. Do the math- the US will be the least of your concerns in such a scenario. So trying to hold the US at bay with the negotiations as a card will play in only as long as US soldiers are out on ground dominance patrols in Af, once that ends and its presence is reduced to spec op teams and trainers the US will just abrogate most of its Afghan concerns in order to placate the Arabs.

This is the one, singular issue that sees two of the most influential lobbies in the States and EU converge- two lobbies which are otherwise mostly antithetical. The bipartisan push that this will be will be nigh impossible for Pakistan to absorb. Best case scenario, even if, by some miracle, the KSA allows this to go through, they will make Pakistan pay through its nose for such perceived intransigence. The trade relations are not important here but Pakistan's dependence on SA's diplomatic underwriting of its ventures is, the benefits have clearly accrued to Pakistan- push the KSA and there will be a backlash- one that even the Chinese may be shy about softening.

Pakistan's leverage will last till 2014 when the heavy equipment will either be pulled out or disbursed upon the Afghan army, that equipment will require the GLOC- in fact its the ONLY viable route. Afterwards though its lights out. Pakistan should have consolidated its economy, pulled itself off the IMF's lap before taking such a move, had it done so- there wouldn't be a single nation that would have tried to arm twist Pakistan beyond the point of issuing hollow statements. But as things stand now the outcome will not be beneficial- not in the short and middle term. IF Pakistan can within this decade pull itself out of the slump then maybe the dividends of this decision will become fruitful and available- till then this is going to be the proverbial albatross around Pakistan's neck.

Elections and another party coming to power is not the panacea that everyone deems it to be. Lets see if any consolidation occurs within next two years. Till them Pakistan's position is clearly unenviable. Clearly this is the kind of move that Pakistan should have undertaken after a decade of economic and diplomatic consolidation and not when its at its nadir.

So points for the sheer audacity of it but penalties for the lack of geopolitical and strategic clarity.

Again, @ZYXW your opinions and counter points are invited since you have insight into the prevailing American sentiment.
 
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:cheesy: dint know a gas pipeline will propduce oil.

damn the americans should take this breaking news for stopping the project. they must take Indians' help

noone seems to b ever happy wid anythin comin out of Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline...

we may here tommrrw dat da pipeline may cause da donkeys n monkeys to stop jumpin n eatin their food:cheesy:
 
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Saudi Arabia is still the largest donor to Pakistan.

How ? Since they are providing no alternative to solve our fuel crisis , we must proceed with the pipeline otherwise let us hear what Riyadh is offering ... The days for hollow Ummah slogans are long gone ...

Saudi Arabia gives lots of economic package or relaxation to Pakistan in the name of brotherly Muslim nation.

Just for your knowledge , that time is well past ... KSA has stopped giving Pakistan any aid ...
 
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The presence that the US intends to keep in minimal at best and it does not require a logistics network as intensive as the GLOC. The "leverage" is hardly leverage but rather an attempt at assuaging the energy crisis in Pakistan. It is a commendable effort, personally I think the whole Iran issue itself is hogwash and unnecessary even though I'm through and though pro-Israel. The US doesn't particularly care about Afghanistan, not with the same intensity as you would assume- not when the interests of KSA and Israel are concerned. Contrary to popular belief the chief ally of the US is actually KSA and not Israel (relatively speaking) and their influence in the US senate is pervasive- these are the fellows who got the US to back off as Pakistan struck out to develop its nukes. Besides there are plenty more countries which will push Pakistan to get the Taliban on the table, chief among them being China. When it comes to Afghanistan US and Chinese interests converge, China is the biggest investor in the natural resources block in Af- larger than India or the US- you think they will let the Pakistani establishment slide by while their economic interests are hurt? The Taliban is a no go for China- for simple reasons, no company will insure and underwrite any business venture in Taliban controlled Af- and that's just one of the hurdles that'll bring Chinese ventures in the region down if Pakistan doesn't play ball. Do the math- the US will be the least of your concerns in such a scenario. So trying to hold the US at bay with the negotiations as a card will play in only as long as US soldiers are out on ground dominance patrols in Af, once that ends and its presence is reduced to spec op teams and trainers the US will just abrogate most of its Afghan concerns in order to placate the Arabs.

This is the one, singular issue that sees two of the most influential lobbies in the States and EU converge- two lobbies which are otherwise mostly antithetical. The bipartisan push that this will be will be nigh impossible for Pakistan to absorb. Best case scenario, even if, by some miracle, the KSA allows this to go through, they will make Pakistan pay through its nose for such perceived intransigence. The trade relations are not important here but Pakistan's dependence on SA's diplomatic underwriting of its ventures is, the benefits have clearly accrued to Pakistan- push the KSA and there will be a backlash- one that even the Chinese may be shy about softening.

Pakistan's leverage will last till 2014 when the heavy equipment will either be pulled out or disbursed upon the Afghan army, that equipment will require the GLOC- in fact its the ONLY viable route. Afterwards though its lights out. Pakistan should have consolidated its economy, pulled itself off the IMF's lap before taking such a move, had it done so- there wouldn't be a single nation that would have tried to arm twist Pakistan beyond the point of issuing hollow statements. But as things stand now the outcome will not be beneficial- not in the short and middle term. IF Pakistan can within this decade pull itself out of the slump then maybe the dividends of this decision will become fruitful and available- till then this is going to be the proverbial albatross around Pakistan's neck.

Elections and another party coming to power is not the panacea that everyone deems it to be. Lets see if any consolidation occurs within next two years. Till them Pakistan's position is clearly unenviable. Clearly this is the kind of move that Pakistan should have undertaken after a decade of economic and diplomatic consolidation and not when its at its nadir.

So points for the sheer audacity of it but penalties for the lack of geopolitical and strategic clarity.

Again, @ZYXW your opinions and counter points are invited since you have insight into the prevailing American sentiment.

It all comes down to one thing. The US is very lenient on Pakistan, but as Pakistan continues to do stuff like this, congress, the state department and the American public seem to be growing very anti-pakistan. If this increases, the US will act harshly (especially if republicans come to power). Pakistan is lucky that Obama is "Mr. Nice Guy" ....

People underestimate the US, honestly because it hasn't done much against Pakistan for now. But you have to realize..on a very realistic level...the US has enough of a power military and weapons to do anything it wants, yet it is soft in its dealing (too soft for many americans). But, yes I agree with you, for now, until 2014 esp. I wouldn't expect much action or give any credibility to the "tough talk"...the US needs Pakistan a lot!!! Until then, Pakistan can be as mischeavous as it wants....this is just my opinion, could be wrong lol
 
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If Pakistan becomes isolated then the Afghan peace process may as well become non-existent and TAPI will become a Pipe dream!
 
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The presence that the US intends to keep in minimal at best and it does not require a logistics network as intensive as the GLOC. The "leverage" is hardly leverage but rather an attempt at assuaging the energy crisis in Pakistan. It is a commendable effort, personally I think the whole Iran issue itself is hogwash and unnecessary even though I'm through and though pro-Israel. The US doesn't particularly care about Afghanistan, not with the same intensity as you would assume- not when the interests of KSA and Israel are concerned. Contrary to popular belief the chief ally of the US is actually KSA and not Israel (relatively speaking) and their influence in the US senate is pervasive- these are the fellows who got the US to back off as Pakistan struck out to develop its nukes. Besides there are plenty more countries which will push Pakistan to get the Taliban on the table, chief among them being China. When it comes to Afghanistan US and Chinese interests converge, China is the biggest investor in the natural resources block in Af- larger than India or the US- you think they will let the Pakistani establishment slide by while their economic interests are hurt? The Taliban is a no go for China- for simple reasons, no company will insure and underwrite any business venture in Taliban controlled Af- and that's just one of the hurdles that'll bring Chinese ventures in the region down if Pakistan doesn't play ball. Do the math- the US will be the least of your concerns in such a scenario. So trying to hold the US at bay with the negotiations as a card will play in only as long as US soldiers are out on ground dominance patrols in Af, once that ends and its presence is reduced to spec op teams and trainers the US will just abrogate most of its Afghan concerns in order to placate the Arabs.

This is the one, singular issue that sees two of the most influential lobbies in the States and EU converge- two lobbies which are otherwise mostly antithetical. The bipartisan push that this will be will be nigh impossible for Pakistan to absorb. Best case scenario, even if, by some miracle, the KSA allows this to go through, they will make Pakistan pay through its nose for such perceived intransigence. The trade relations are not important here but Pakistan's dependence on SA's diplomatic underwriting of its ventures is, the benefits have clearly accrued to Pakistan- push the KSA and there will be a backlash- one that even the Chinese may be shy about softening.

Pakistan's leverage will last till 2014 when the heavy equipment will either be pulled out or disbursed upon the Afghan army, that equipment will require the GLOC- in fact its the ONLY viable route. Afterwards though its lights out. Pakistan should have consolidated its economy, pulled itself off the IMF's lap before taking such a move, had it done so- there wouldn't be a single nation that would have tried to arm twist Pakistan beyond the point of issuing hollow statements. But as things stand now the outcome will not be beneficial- not in the short and middle term. IF Pakistan can within this decade pull itself out of the slump then maybe the dividends of this decision will become fruitful and available- till then this is going to be the proverbial albatross around Pakistan's neck.

Elections and another party coming to power is not the panacea that everyone deems it to be. Lets see if any consolidation occurs within next two years. Till them Pakistan's position is clearly unenviable. Clearly this is the kind of move that Pakistan should have undertaken after a decade of economic and diplomatic consolidation and not when its at its nadir.

So points for the sheer audacity of it but penalties for the lack of geopolitical and strategic clarity.

Again, @ZYXW your opinions and counter points are invited since you have insight into the prevailing American sentiment.

In terms of american i guess only time will tell. In terms of economy pakistan certainly has to swallow a bitter pill so it is now or never. We can still recover as our economic conditions were much worse in 1998-9 but still we pulled out. At the end of the day hope is always something that keeps a person going and same goes for nations.
 
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In terms of american i guess only time will tell. In terms of economy pakistan certainly has to swallow a bitter pill so it is now or never. We can still recover as our economic conditions were much worse in 1998-9 but still we pulled out. At the end of the day hope is always something that keeps a person going and same goes for nations.

This pipeline is a necessity for Pakistan. No other viable option seems to be on table. I just hope the work starts soon and does not get delayed because of impending elections. You guys have two years to finish this off.
Otherwise it will be real difficult if sanctions hit your economy which already is in bad shape. You people survived the 98-99 because 9-11 happened soon after and cash started flowing.
 
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No surprises. Amerika is as usual the sh1t stirrer.

The sooner Pakistan wean off the Amerika's tit the better.
 
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This pipeline is a necessity for Pakistan. No other viable option seems to be on table. I just hope the work starts soon and does not get delayed because of impending elections. You guys have two years to finish this off.
Otherwise it will be real difficult if sanctions hit your economy which already is in bad shape. You people survived the 98-99 because 9-11 happened soon after and cash started flowing.

All true i guess only time will tell.
 
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This pipeline is a necessity for Pakistan. No other viable option seems to be on table. I just hope the work starts soon and does not get delayed because of impending elections. You guys have two years to finish this off.
Otherwise it will be real difficult if sanctions hit your economy which already is in bad shape. You people survived the 98-99 because 9-11 happened soon after and cash started flowing.

The uninhibited cash flow from the states after 9/11 did indeed float the Pakistani economy, in fact if one were to look at the history of the Pakistani economy- its own performance has left it teetering at the edge of bankruptcy for the last 15 or so years- always requiring funds to flow in from somewhere at the cost of the nation's sovereignty.

But @smuhs1 can equally argue that if the American money does not flow in the Chinese will surely fill up that deficit. The sacrificial goat will obviously be Pakistan's foreign policy which will get re-oriented to the opposite pole. While their resolve to thumb it to America is commendable, piping about the Chinese friendship will leave them at square one 2 to 3 decades down the line. Let us see if Pakistan can walk the tight rope. Although one thing has been established and should find wide agreement- until at least 2014 any hard hitting sanctions are unlikely. Whether milder sanctions will be applied and whether Pakistan's economy will be able to absorb it is another matter and the posters across the border are probably better fitted to answer that specific question.
 
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Everybody seems to be assuming here that, Pakistan will be sanctioned because they are dealing with Iran. Think about another scenario, which could play out.

1. US realises that it no longer needs Pakistan and decides to impose sanctions post NATO withdrawal.
2. Current President of Iran is replaced with a moderate. Relations between Iran and US improve. Iranian government publicly stops criticizing Israel and SA. Decides it needs to improve relations with west to improve economy. Decides to follow 'UN line'
3. Meanwhile, US realising the current Iran specific sanctions cannot be applied on Pakistan, creates new ways to impose sanctions which are followed by Iran.

Now what do you hedge against? Reason, I am bringing this is up, is because, Iran has a far more pragmatic foreign policy where its national interests are concerned. You will not find them supporting the Muslim Ummah unless, there is a substantial payback for them.
 
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Our trade with KSA in past 4 YEARS has declined to historic low which is only 1% of our GDP. I think their Muslim brotherhood slogan died right over there when they left us in a dry heat. Our foreign policies should be independent of outside pressure in the first place. There will be isolation but no where near on global level.

Salaam to all the Muslims,

:pakistan:

What did you say?
Saudi Gazette - Exports of Pakistan to KSA grow


Pakistan-Saudi Arabia trade worth $4.8 billion in 2012.
Pakistan, Gulf region and Iran | Pakistan Today


Further reading (a little out of date - from mid-2012)
External Trade Statistics | PAKISTAN BUREAU OF STATISTICS

Salaam to all the Muslims.
 
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