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Persecution of Orissa Christians by Hindu extremists continues

Yes and you can google "tech insurgent" to find out what americans think / know!

I don't have to. I live among several of them and I do know what they think of India and what they think of PAK as well. At the end of the day both the Americans and Indians live in secular societies and democracies. We do understand each other in more ways than one. Now why would I listen to someone who has more non-secular influence ?
 
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Actually the goal is not land grabbing as such. The long-term plan has been meticulously studied in a book by Rajiv Malhotra called "Breaking India". See Breaking India

I mean the cover of the book will tell you its a joke.

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Mughalistan? Does the author know that literally means "Land of the Mongols"?

Mughal emperors didnt even call the land Mughalistan, but Hindustan.:lol:

Only thing that will "break" India is silly fanatical people like tallboy. People like him are pulling India down when its clearly rising.:disagree:
 
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I mean the cover of the book will tell you its a joke.

That is a shallow mind-set. It is a very carefully researched book, with lots of data, on issues that the average joe is ignorant about.

From the announcement for the Delhi launch of the book:

"Book launch and keynote address are by Ram Jethmalani. Speakers include B Raman (Director, Institute for Topical Studies), S. Gurumurthi, Vice Admiral (Retd) Raman Puri, and Upendra Baxi (Emeritus Professor of Law, University of Warwick)."

These are all very serious and distinguished folks who know what they are talking about. People should read the introduction, the table of contents, see the videos at breakingindia.com .
 
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The point is that the Churches that are involved in proselytization are dens of vice, and are doing whatever they are doing for political purposes.

See for example this video about a vicious Church called World Vision, which was involved in the murder of a Hindu monk in Orissa not too long ago - an excellent lecture by a scholar called Iain Buchanan.

World vision is not a church and never has been they are a Christian ministry though. He makes a lot of accusations some of which I can find no corroboration. He also lacks understanding of Christian doctrine which leads him to distort it for his own purpose and argument
 
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Indians mostly on this thread have not said anything anti-christian . They are all mostly saying that some christian missionaries cause trouble. No one has justified attack on regular christians . still some Pakistanis who being Pakistanis don't even know the meaning of secularism question Indian secularism on this thread.Americans now understand this region well , they know who is what now. Let them judge.
 
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I have some family in Hyderabad (India) and they say that they have to live in a Christian neighbourhood because they do not feel safe around people of different religions, other then their own. Same goes for my other family that have to live in Muslim majority neighbourhoods in Delhi and Rampur. Some apartments in cities like Navi Mumbai are for Hindus only and people from other religions are barred from even entering it.
 
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I have some family in Hyderabad (India) and they say that they have to live in a Christian neighbourhood because they do not feel safe around people from other religions. Same goes for my family that have to live in Muslim majority neighbourhoods in Delhi and Rampur. Some apartments in cities like Navi Mumbai are for Hindus only and people from other religions are barred from even entering it.

If its true then that's very sad for a secular country or for secularism
 
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Indians mostly on this thread have not said anything anti-christian . They are all mostly saying that some christian missionaries cause trouble. No one has justified attack on regular christians . still some Pakistanis who being Pakistanis don't even know the meaning of secularism question Indian secularism on this thread.Americans now understand this region well , they know who is what now. Let them judge.

Secularism has many different meaning. I hope you know that. Secularism in India is a different framework compared to the one they use in America. It also has different affects on different countries. USA adapted secularism as a good gesture. India adapted secularism for its own survival to soothe the various diversity of people.
India is secular but comparing it with america is just down right ignorant. Also the concept of secularism pretty much survived in America because all their religions are more or less similar, thus they don't have to feel that they are really affected by any religion. India(matter of fact most countries in our region) is horribly affected by fanatics.
 
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Since everyone here loves Tehelka so much

Preparing for the harvest ...



A new mood of aggressive evangelism has been emanating from America. Well-funded, superbly networked,
backed by the highest of the land, seized of its moral supremacy, it has India as one of its key targets, reveals
VK Shashikumar in a disturbing exposé

This could be the plot of a fevered thriller. A jingoistic president, multi-million dollar corporations, high technology, a grand if furtive mission, networks spanning the globe, and biblical invocations.

Only it's real. And its got India in its crosshair.

Religious expansionism has not witnessed this scale, scope, and state resources in a long time. Detailed investigations by Tehelka reveal that American evangelical agencies have established in India an enormous, well-coordinated and strategised religious conversion plan. The operation was launched in the early 1990s but really came into its own after George W Bush Jr, an avowed born-again Christian, became president of the United States in 2001. Since then, aggressive evangelists have found pro-active support from the new administration in their efforts to convert some sections of Indian society to Christianity. At the heart of this complex and sophisticated operation is a simple strategy-convert locals and then give them the know-how and money to plant their own churches and multiply.

Around the time that Bush Jr moved into the Oval office, a worldwide conversion movement, funded and effected by American evangelical groups, was peaking in India. The movement, which began as AD2000 & Beyond and later morphed into Joshua Project I and Joshua Project II, was designed to be a sledgehammer-a breathtaking, decade-long steamroller of a campaign that would set the stage for a systematic, sophisticated and self-sustaining "harvest" of the "unreached people groups" in India in the 21st century. It was just as the operation was taking off that the script changed. Much to the delight of American evangelicals, one of their own, George Bush Jr, became the occupant of the White House.

In a major policy decision taken very early into his presidency, Bush, on January 29, 2001, unveiled a "faith based" social service initiative that included a new White House office to promote government aid to churches and Christian faith-based organisations. This, in effect, threw the massive weight of the federal government behind religious groups and religious conversions. The Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives was set up in the White House in the first week of February 2002 and a man called Jim Towey was appointed director. (A snap introduction to Towey: he was the legal counsel to Mother Teresa in the late 1980s.)
Though Bush's initiative to fund "salvation and religious conversion" is stalled in the Congress over constitutional and civil rights concerns, he has pushed for its implementation through executive orders.

White House-Christian Coalition nexus

The American press is replete with reports on Bush's largesse to faith-based organisations. They say it's his "return gift" to the Christian Right for having loyally supported his presidential campaign. The Christian Coalition, founded by American TV evangelist and head of the multi-billion Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN), Pat Robertson, played a crucial role in the 2000 election. Recently, in his TV programme, Club 700, broadcast on CBN, Robertson created a stir by announcing that he is confident Bush will win the 2004 election in a "blowout" because God has told him so.

Indeed, Bush is keen to retain what we call the votebank and Americans 'the base'. After all, the Far Right Christian evangelists have also been the most loyal backers of his hardline militarism in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere.

But there is another, perhaps more important, reason why Bush is keen on supporting his evangelist friends who run huge transnational missionary organisations (TMOs). In the decade 1990-2000 they ran a global intelligence operation so complex and sophisticated that its scale and implications are no less than staggering. This operation has put in place a system which enables the US government to access any ethnographic information on any location virtually at the click of the mouse. This network in India, established with funding and strategic assistance from US-based TMOs, gives US intelligence agencies virtually real time access to every nook and corner of the country. (See 'List of TMOs Active in India')

Since Bush's ascendancy to the presidency this network of networks has multiplied rapidly in India. Bush supports conversion in India because he supports those American TMOs who fund and strategise conversion activities in this country. Organisations like the International Mission Board, Southern Baptist Convention, Christian Aid, World Vision, Seventh Day Adventist Church and multi-billion enterprises run by evangelists like Pat Robertson, Billy Graham and Roger Houtsma, amongst many others, were instrumental in running a coordinated conversion campaign in India under the banner of AD2000. These later became the Joshua Project and when the decade-long movement officially closed down in March 2001, Joshua Project II was launched to sustain conversions and intelligence-gathering. Graham's TMO, Billy Graham Evangelist Association, supports conversion activities in Gurgaon, Haryana, and Kolkata.

When AD2000 was conceived for India, the plan was based on a military model with the intent to invade, occupy, control, or subjugate its population. It was based on solid intelligence emanating from the ground and well-researched information on various facets of selected people groups. The idea was to send out spying missions to source micro details on religion and culture. The social and economic divisions in the various Indian communities were closely examined. Given the oppressive and institutionalised caste system in the Hindu society, American evangelical strategists chalked out plans for reaching these various "unmixable" caste groups. The many faultlines running through the country-divisions in terms of ethnicity, caste, creed, language and class-were all factored in during the generation of ethnographic data.

North India was designated the core target of American evangelists. It was described as the "core of the core of the core" of a worldwide evangelical movement conceived by fundamentalist American missionaries. This movement that took shape over the 1990s, has now taken off because of a unique collaboration between the American government and US-based evangelical mission agencies. In the 1990s this movement was shaped by the World Evangelical Fellowship (an international alliance of national evangelical alliances), working with the AD2000 movement. It brought together a wide variety of individuals and organisations, under the single goal of achieving "a church for every people and the gospel for every person by the year 2000." Its focus was missionary mobilisation and church planting in India and other regions of the world where the Christian population was negligible. This movement was also a massive intelligence gathering exercise funded and supported by American missionary organisations that were responsible for the election of George W Bush.

Global evangelism plans


AD2000 first attracted attention at a convention of international evangelical missions called Lausanne II in Manila in 1989. The movement then spread rapidly around the globe to help catalyse evangelism. The strategy behind the movement was to establish pioneering global partnerships to eventually provide a church within every "unreached people group". Ralph Winter, founder of the US Center for World Mission, characterised the movement as "the largest, most pervasive global evangelical network ever to exist."

This movement, spearheaded by Luis Bush from the movement's headquarters in Colorado Springs, US, was planned for large conversion of people living within the "10/40 Window". Incidentally, Billy Graham, a Christian fundamentalist and rabid evangelist, who was responsible for George W's "born again" Christian status and whom the president considers as his godfather was the honorary co-chairman of the AD 2000 movement.
 
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The report is actually huge and no point pasting all the 8 pages

Crusade in India

India is key to the Bush religious agenda. His government has given grants to Christian charities that are involved in conversion activities in India. On October 3, 2002, the US department of health and human services announced that television evangelist, Pat Robertson's charity, Operation Blessing, would be given demonstration grants through the so-called Compassion Capital Fund. Robertson's organisation and the other "intermediaries" were free to distribute this federal grant (essentially American tax payers' money) to religious groups and community groups of their choice to provide social services. In other words, there was no restriction on how the federal grants were to be used. In an interview to Newsweek three years ago Robertson said, "I've got 10 good years left," and "my heart is on missions, and on getting people into the kingdom of God. That's the main thrust of my life." In the same interview, Robertson recalled fondly a recent crusade in India: "I spoke to a crowd of 500,000 people!" he said. "Eighty-two acres of people! The response was overwhelming." Robertson's Operation Blessing is very active in India through CBN India headquartered at Jubilee Hills in Hyderabad.

Incidentally, Robertson deftly defrauded the Indian government because Indian laws do not permit issuance of visas to Christian missionaries. In response to an unstirred question (NO. 969) in the Lok Sabha on February 27, 2001 the minister of state for home , Vidyasagar Rao, responded that "no new missionaries are allowed after 1984. However, short term visas are being issued to the foreigners who are coming only in administrative capacity, to review working of their organisations etc." Certainly, Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition in the US and head of the multi-million Christian Broadcasting Network, might have had "administrative" reasons to travel to India. But he, surely, did not have either the permission or the right to evangelise.

The Indian government has been caught napping. Rev Bush, head of a decade-long global evangelisation programme, visited India in January 2003. He was a guest of the Evangelical Fellowship of India and presumably traveled to India on a tourist visa. In the early years of 2000, many evangelists entered India fraudulently. Amongst them were extremist Christians like Don Noble, president of Maranatha Volunteers International affiliated to a fundamentalist Christian group, the Seventh Day Adventists and Pastor Michael Ryan, director of Global Mission, the Seventh Day Adventist church's international outreach department which co-ordinates India evangelistic initiative. The US state department website makes no bones about the fact that American evangelists enter India by employing fraudulent means.

In the context of the fact that Robertson is one of America's most rabid Christian fundamentalists, Bush's largesse to him certainly has implications for India. In an interview broadcast on his own TV channel this is what Robertson had to say on one of the religions followed in India: "Hinduism and many of the occult activities that come out of the Orient are inspired by demons and demon worship...There's this concept that all religions are the same and all are good. That is not true. The worship of the Devil is not good." Robertson's friend and fellow evangelist, Jerry Falwell, also a TV preacher, ignited anti-American violence across many countries in November 2002 when he called the Prophet Mohammad a "terrorist" on American television. In Jammu and Kashmir, Falwell's emarks were published in local newspaper. As word spread protestors spilled out into the street pelting stones and shouting anti-American slogans.

The Oval Office centre

According to Americans United, "Robertson's Operation Blessing, a $66 million-a-year agency, also has a controversial history…The controversy over Operation Blessing stretches back to 1994, when Robertson used his '700 Club' daily cable television programme to raise funds for the charity. Robertson told viewers Operation Blessing was using cargo planes to aid refugees from Rwanda who had fled into the neighbouring nation of Zaire (now known as Congo) to escape a violent civil war…In fact, Robertson was using his planes to haul mining equipment in and out of Zaire for African Development Corporation, his for-profit diamond mining company."

Incidentally, Robertson sought the Republican nomination for president in 1988 and later founded the Christian Coalition, a political group that has worked tirelessly to elect Republicans to public offices nationwide. Bush's presidential election victory has been, by far, the coalition's biggest success till date. After having installed a Christian fundamentalist as the President of America, Robertson stepped down as the president of the Christian Coalition in December 2001. The Washington Post, in a dispatch on December 24, 2001 noted that the religious right had found its "center in Oval office". The writer of this dispatch, Diana Milbank wrote, "A procession of religious leaders who have met with him testify to his faith, while Websites encourage people to fast and pray for the president."

For American evangelicals, Bush is "God's man at this hour". The Bush administration's faith based initiatives-'charitable choice' as it is often calle-was one of his key campaign planks during the 2000 presidential campaign. In fact, as Texas governor, Bush had become a fervent advocate of this policy that enabled Christian religious organisations to evangelise while providing publicly financed service.

As president, Bush has expanded the 'charitable choice' approach to virtually all aspects of government aid-national and foreign. "In every instance when my administration sees a responsibility to help people, we will look first to faith-based institutions, to charities and to community groups that have shown their ability to save and change lives," Bush told a rally in Indianapolis on July 22, 1999. Evangelists all over the world were and still continue to be happy with the language used by Bush, full of Biblical references and metaphors, as it is. "Saving Souls" is a common and often-used expression by evangelists all over the world to refer to religious conversion.

Exploiting the AIDS victims


On September 21, 2000, Bush wrote in USA Today that he would allocate $80 billion over 10 years in tax incentives to help churches (in America) provide social services. The US government has established an unparalleled partnership with Christian religious organisations. In the last week of September 2003, the US administration announced new rules enabling Christian religious institutions to access $20 billion worth of federal grants. Faith-based organisations can access and use this fund to deliver services from drug/alcohol de-addiction to prison reform to HIV/AIDS related care and support activities. The idea, of course, is to give opportunities to those who suffer to be "reborn", just as Bush was after years of alcohol addiction.

Even though the Bush administration has denied that its initiatives support evangelical activities, the fact is that faith-based organisation use prayer and proselytising as an integral part of its provision of social services. After all, Bush has often cited his own "reborn" status to justify the interventions of faith based organisation in the social sector. In his autobiography, A Charge To Keep, itself a twist on a well-known hymn, Bush wrote that evangelist Billy Graham had "planted a mustard seed in my heart, and I started to change… It was the beginning of a new walk where I would recommit my heart to Jesus Christ."

Bush has repeatedly singled out and praised faith-based organisations whose core philosophy is conversion while dispensing social services. During last year's State of the Union speech his invited guests were Tonja Myles of the 'Set Free Indeed Program' at Healing Place Church in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Henry Lozano of Teen Challenge, California. Both programmes use religious conversion as treatment. Within the US, Bush's praise for religious conversion programmes has raised concerns as well. Early into the Bush presidency, the United Methodist Church, the second-largest Protestant denomination in the US, made it plain that the president's faith-based initiatives were essentially about conversion. In a press release on June 14, 2001, a representative of the Methodist Church, Rev. Eliezer Valentin Castanon, said: "No one can honestly believe that a program funded with tax dollars, which requires as a major component of treatment the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, will not advance religion."
 
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LOL. yet you laugh at the Pakistanis for believing in conspiracies.

Ahem, this is from Tehelka.com . It's well respected , not some rag like Rupee News

Surprisingly Tehelka's views are extremely leftist and people usually parade it on this very forum because its totally anti-RSS


PS: Your favorite author Arundhati Roy loves this Magazine
 
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Orissa is a sad hell hole with extremists crawling all over. Too many wrongs have been done there. I hope things get better....for their sake at least.
 
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Thankfully, kerala, my state has absolutely no hostility towards Christians. Infact the majority of the government is Christian. Christians also have HUGE political influence here in kerala.
 
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I have some family in Hyderabad (India) and they say that they have to live in a Christian neighbourhood because they do not feel safe around people of different religions, other then their own. Same goes for my other family that have to live in Muslim majority neighbourhoods in Delhi and Rampur. Some apartments in cities like Navi Mumbai are for Hindus only and people from other religions are barred from even entering it.

These type of things happen every where. In America some neighborhoods you will get beat up because you are white. Some places you might get beat up because you are non-white.

I am a Christian, and frankly I rather be a Christian in India then many other 3rd world countries. I dont understand the situation in eastern India however.
 
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