PDF Quality: We need to talk about this, fellow Pakistanis

[RealNapster]

I think you are talking about someone else. I never claimed to be affected by such a thing

I was pointing toward the general audience. Not you.

What you folks still don't understand is that Indians don't come to PDF to have a civilized discussion. It takes two to have a civil discourse

Then we should not feed them what they want to have here.

Instead of worrying about the 27th pay some attention to Indian aggression and abuse

Uffff.... I am (just like any other human) designed in a way that i can like/admire and hate/criticise many things simultaneously. I dont like repetetive references to feb 27 by random fanboys amd i dont like indian abuses. I will rise voice on both issues.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I'm sorry for the abuse you might've encountered here, I apologize on behalf of those that did. I do not know what your background is other than Australian but you are definitely one if the members i liked to read the responses of, during my early days of stalking this forum. I only raised this issue now because a certain PDF poster's messages really ticked me off. It's getting bad and there should be more restrictions enforced to make this forum a more friendly one.

He is a troll I put on ignore long ago. Suddenly anyone who he disagrees with becomes an Islamist, a word which means a absolutely nothing.

He is exactly the kind of person we should not allow to post here.

You don't need to apologize to him.

They don't come here to exchange facts, the come here to Troll. To create a hostile environment limits how many come and how many enjoy thier limited stay.

The quicker way of dealing with it is through moderation. Unfortunately this forum is too big for the limited number of mods here.

I propose;

1. Limiting new members to 10 posts a day.
2. New members have to earn X amount of "thanks" before they get promoted to full members with unlimited posting rights.
3. Any post by a new member which is reported is automatically hidden until the report is processed.

Great ideas. Hope mods look into prophylactic methods of controlling trolling.

What you folks still don't understand is that Indians don't come to PDF to have a civilized discussion. It takes two to have a civil discourse. Indians barge into PDF and start abusing Pakistan without remorse. How do you want to be civilised with a person that is only here to abuse and troll from the very start? Remember that most of the Indians that are attracted by PDF are not your average CAA protestors. These are hardcore RSS followers who are taught to hate Pakistan with every breath in their body.

Instead of worrying about the 27th pay some attention to Indian aggression and abuse.



See how worried these Indians are once you lay bare their true designs? They start calling you out by name. It is an absolute honor for me to know that Indian members fear my name and presence on this forum. No doubt I am an RSS slayer and a proud one at that.

Finally PDF has after so many years transformed into a patriotic hub where Pakistan is always first. Of course Pakistani members deserve benefit of the doubt above Indian members. That is a no brainer. We should cherish this attitude and policy with absolute pride. It is our forum and it should be our rules.

PDF used to be an Indian infested craphole back in the day where mods used to ban Pakistani members quite regularly. Indians used to mock and taunt Pakistanis on their own platform. Luckily that is not the case anymore and today Pakistani members feel at home.

The few Pakistani members that are constantly opposing PDFs direction either have a different agenda or want a more inclusive PDF. I don't oppose diversity and inclusiveness at PDF, but this should never come at the expense of trolling and blackmail.

I agree that we need decorum and rules, but we must also look very closely at Indian trolls who come on PDF to control and divide unity.

PDF should not fear loss of traffic due to Indian trolls disappearing from PDF. If one RSS troll is replaced with a patriotic Pakistani on PDF that should be encouraged. LOL I remember how Indian trolls used to hold PDF admins hostage with their traffic loss BS.

In short, PDF should aim at having more Pakistani patriots who think in solutions for Pakistan and less Indian trolls who divert and troll in every topic. Above anything else PDF should stand for serving Pakistan's interests. Non-Pakistanis are welcome on PDF, but they shouldn't be allowed to troll and control PDF.

Great post, I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

There is obviously an organized attack on this forum from Indian RSS fascists.

A key point made here. Well said brother.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

So what exactly is your objection here?

Are you saying that members of the forum shouldn't be polite?

If you see someone using abusive language, contact the mods, simple as that.

I don't quite understand your objection to OP.

Respected sir, I am saying let them come ranting and raving, and let members rant and rave back at them.

There should be rules that apply to all - certainly some lines to not cross - I myself have railed against abuse of any religion including Hinduism - but the OP is suggesting pure fact based exchange without hyperbole, rhetoric or even straightforward colourful language. Come on, this kills debate. In the real world, what debate doesn't include character assassination by definition?

How do legal processes work, or political debates? A person's credibility is established before even discussing the matter at hand.

Again, I'm not advocating transgression of well defined limits that apply to both sides. I'm simply saying let pdf reflect the real world.

It is for example perfectly reasonable to point out societal faults in the land of Hindustan repeatedly - why? Because the prevailing brain curdling narratives perpetuated about India are yoga, Bollywood and democracy. What do you think is propagated vis a vis Pakistan? Waging an information war on pdf is a bare minimum to revise the false narratives about both nations to something more realistic.

I could go on for hours about the other risks of failure to respond to Indian hyperbole and fantasies - namely that Pakistanis themselves will start to believe the Indian narratives being spewed out everywhere from Wikipedia to pdf to lok sabha! Truly Pakistanis shouldn't sit back and stay quiet in the face of vicious falsehoods about Pakistan, Muslims and mughals in south Asia.

I'm not saying we should invent falsehoods but hard truths must be embellished with rhetoric, satire or sarcasm in order to drive a message home and make a message more memorable.

General rule of thumb is that Pakistanis shouldn't sit back and play nice when India plays psy-ops.

Fight propaganda through well established facts rather than going down to the level of Hindutvas to fight them. If not then what's the difference between them and you?

Yeah keep fighting on this imaginary higher plane of morality with thunderbolts coming out of your palms and a halo around your head. War is a dirty business. Those who fight dirtiest win.

Unfortunately, this is precisely the erroneous Bollywood attitude that I referred to earlier.

Subconsciously, Pakistanis are being slowly neutered and told to occupy some imaginary moral high ground, while our enemies fight dirtiest.

Case in point - unifying threads about reports of rape in India - I discussed my feelings on this already with mods and I don't wish to bang on about it - but we need to be wise as to when clever Indians are attempting to subvert us by pretending to present a "moral" argument for what is basically a pro-Indian policy change.

I'm not saying we should fight stupid. But we should certainly fight dirty.

In a general sense, Islam has listed certain conditions to be met during war. I would say if folks feel some guilt over war methodology, check if it falls foul of those rules.

I am yet to burn any ant nests personally so I will continue as I am.

 

[PakistaniJunior]

Respected sir, I am saying let them come ranting and raving, and let members rant and rave back at them.

There should be rules that apply to all - certainly some lines to not cross - I myself have railed against abuse of any religion including Hinduism - but the OP is suggesting pure fact based exchange without hyperbole, rhetoric or even straightforward colourful language. Come on, this kills debate. In the real world, what debate doesn't include character assassination by definition?

How do legal processes work, or political debates? A person's credibility is established before even discussing the matter at hand.

Again, I'm not advocating transgression of well defined limits that apply to both sides. I'm simply saying let pdf reflect the real world.

It is for example perfectly reasonable to point out societal faults in the land of Hindustan repeatedly - why? Because the prevailing brain curdling narratives perpetuated about India are yoga, Bollywood and democracy. What do you think is propagated vis a vis Pakistan? Waging an information war on pdf is a bare minimum to revise the false narratives about both nations to something more realistic.

I could go on for hours about the other risks of failure to respond to Indian hyperbole and fantasies - namely that Pakistanis themselves will start to believe the Indian narratives being spewed out everywhere from Wikipedia to pdf to lok sabha! Truly Pakistanis shouldn't sit back and stay quiet in the face of vicious falsehoods about Pakistan, Muslims and mughals in south Asia.

I'm not saying we should invent falsehoods but hard truths must be embellished with rhetoric, satire or sarcasm in order to drive a message home and make a message more memorable.

General rule of thumb is that Pakistanis shouldn't sit back and play nice when India plays psy-ops.

I think what i was trying to convey came out a bit rigid. The reason why i made this thread was not because i am against small banter or casual talks between people. nor am i against passive aggressive responses either. Basically what i saw on the forum consisted of members being extremely racist, whereas trying to portray Pakistanis as some sort of unfathomable superior beings. Particularly this one user from the recent thread "Indians are obsessed with Pakistan" who went so far as to insult the Indic pakistanis as not being true pakistanis. Then i remembered all the previous instances i have seen socially unacceptable behaviors throughout the recent times on PDF. Therefore, all of that ultimately boiled down to this thread.

What i have a issue with are the following. I am against some pakistanis being racist, colorist against anyone while at the same time they try to portray Pakistanis as if we are some god knows what superior beings. I am against the continuous overuse of vulgar words such as "Piss drinking, cow blah blah Black Gandoo Gangadeshis" (This is what i meant by not retorting to the level of those that enrage you). I am against rampant Rape threads, people mostly use these threads to score rookie points at taking a jab on others rather than sympathizing with the issue at hand. I don't say that there shouldn't exist any rape threads, but it's a very sensitive and dark issue that most people often don't want to see continuously. When there is no indian , Pakistanis fight with each other. For example, a while ago there was this thread i don't remember the name of , but Muhajir Pakistanis were wishing well on the loss of Pashtun lives or some talk about Native Pakistanis not accepting Muhajirs etc. Needless to say, it was very sad to see Pakistanis fight amongst themselves like this. Then i realized that the atmosphere of the forum is becoming toxic. Hence, i raised the issue.

Sure, go ahead and defend Pakistan. I'll defend it too. But do it in a manner that's socially acceptable.

Hopefully that cleared some things up.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I think what i was trying to convey came out a bit rigid. The reason why i made this thread was not because i am against small banter or casual talks between people. nor am i against passive aggressive responses either. Basically what i saw on the forum consisted of members being extremely racist, whereas trying to portray Pakistanis as some sort of unfathomable superior beings. Particularly this one user from the recent thread "Indians are obsessed with Pakistan" who went so far as to insult the Indic pakistanis as not being true pakistanis. Then i remembered all the previous instances i have seen socially unacceptable behaviors throughout the recent times on PDF. Therefore, all of that ultimately boiled down to this thread.

What i have a issue with are the following. I am against some pakistanis being racist, colorist against anyone while at the same time they try to portray Pakistanis as if we are some god knows what superior beings. I am against the continuous overuse of vulgar words such as "Piss drinking, cow blah blah Black Gandoo Gangadeshis" (This is what i meant by not retorting to the level of those that enrage you). I am against rampant Rape threads, people mostly use these threads to score rookie points at taking a jab on others rather than sympathizing with the issue at hand. I don't say that there shouldn't exist any rape threads, but it's a very sensitive and dark issue that most people often don't want to see continuously. When there is no indian , Pakistanis fight with each other. For example, a while ago there was this thread i don't remember the name of , but Muhajir Pakistanis were wishing well on the loss of Pashtun lives or some talk about Native Pakistanis not accepting Muhajirs etc. Needless to say, it was very sad to see Pakistanis fight amongst themselves like this. Then i realized that the atmosphere of the forum is becoming toxic. Hence, i raised the issue.

Sure, go ahead and defend Pakistan. I'll defend it too. But do it in a manner that's socially acceptable.

Hopefully that cleared some things up.

Friend your overall intention is clearly the same as mine and it's great to have you here speaking up for your point of view. I fully respect your position. In fact I agree on many of the things you have said - certainly Pakistanis who insult anyone on the basis of colour or religion have transgressed and I hope I am not such a person.

Overall we may differ in approach but I would simply suggest that you be cautious and don't get fooled by some of the projected "personality types" coming from Indian members.

 

[Arsalan 345]

difference of opinion means trolling and abusing here.many seniors left.nobody cares about quality of post.everyone wants to show patriotism and nobody cares about right or wrong.there are members here who follow every action of their beloved political parties blindly.

after abrogation,this forum banned majority of indians members.no foreign will visit this forum if they see trolling and abusing on each thread.everyone should be given chance to speak.unfortunately if you have different views,they will call you indian or anti state or nawaz or imran party member.i mean this is too much.

 

[halupridol]

Damn,,,10 page discussion.
Trolling is one thing but if u want quality posts thn u got to have quality posters,,,,where r they???

Most Indian 'quality' posters left,,,other nationalities were already rare,,,Pakistani posters worth reading harldy post anymore,,,so much so,tht now even hashtag mangus feels like an intellectual.
Andho me kana raja kind of situation.
But its ok,,as some mod say,,this is nxt generation warfare,,spparrtaa.

 

[That Guy]

Respected sir, I am saying let them come ranting and raving, and let members rant and rave back at them.

That's not a debate, that mudslinging. Such people are often warned, if not outright banned.

There should be rules that apply to all - certainly some lines to not cross - I myself have railed against abuse of any religion including Hinduism - but the OP is suggesting pure fact based exchange without hyperbole, rhetoric or even straightforward colourful language. Come on, this kills debate. In the real world, what debate doesn't include character assassination by definition?

Pretty much any respectable debate forum doesn't allow character assassination. In fact, such things are often cowardly, mudslinging contests, which don't move the dialogue forward.

Debates SHOULD be about facts, otherwise you get fake news.

How do legal processes work, or political debates? A person's credibility is established before even discussing the matter at hand.

Yes, BEFORE the discussion, not during it. Besides, the nature of online forum debates is different to what you'd find in a university setting, or one set up by a respectable institution. By the very nature of this being an online forum, anyone can (anonymously) join a debate already in progress; credibility, thus, can only be proven/gained if the user presented facts, logical opinions based upon facts, or pure fiction and drivel.

Again, I'm not advocating transgression of well defined limits that apply to both sides. I'm simply saying let pdf reflect the real world.

To a great extent, it already does. The problem is that we need rules and proper etiquette to make sure that differing opinions are all presented in a proper manner, which doesn't include one side accusing the other side's mother of doing morally questionable things. Reflecting the real world should only apply to opinions and facts, not unfiltered nonsense that any moron can spew into the void.

It is for example perfectly reasonable to point out societal faults in the land of Hindustan repeatedly - why? Because the prevailing brain curdling narratives perpetuated about India are yoga, Bollywood and democracy. What do you think is propagated vis a vis Pakistan? Waging an information war on pdf is a bare minimum to revise the false narratives about both nations to something more realistic.

If fake news is spread on PDF, contact the mods, and they will take it down. DO NOT ENGAGE THE TROLLS, because once you do, they win.

I could go on for hours about the other risks of failure to respond to Indian hyperbole and fantasies - namely that Pakistanis themselves will start to believe the Indian narratives being spewed out everywhere from Wikipedia to pdf to lok sabha! Truly Pakistanis shouldn't sit back and stay quiet in the face of vicious falsehoods about Pakistan, Muslims and mughals in south Asia.

No one should stay quiet in the face of falsehood. The problem isn't if one should take action, but what sort of action should be taken. You see, trolls WANT you to get angry and not stick to the facts, because they know the absurdity of their own argument. They win when you get angry, because then they can call you out on your anger, and say absurd things like you attacking them and not their points, even if you originally were attacking their point.

I'm not saying we should invent falsehoods but hard truths must be embellished with rhetoric, satire or sarcasm in order to drive a message home and make a message more memorable.

A certain amount of flair is needed, but angry rhetoric, such as name calling, will only make your message all the more weaker.

General rule of thumb is that Pakistanis shouldn't sit back and play nice when India plays psy-ops.

Confronting falsehood is already not playing nice. Being Frank, but polite is how you win arguments. The moment you name call is when you lose.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

after abrogation,this forum banned majority of indians members.no foreign will visit this forum if they see trolling and abusing on each thread.everyone should be given chance to speak.unfortunately if you have different views,they will call you indian or anti state or nawaz or imran party member.i mean this is too much.

And what a much better forum it has become since then. Mods did great work there and we should continue in that vein.

I noticed also Arabs, Iranians, BDs being racist to Pakistanis and getting the Mod hammer very quickly. Then you have some Non-Muslim members (along with Indians,) such as SL, Chinese, Vietnamese (lol) who were abusing Islam. Mods took care of that very quickly.

Recently, I have been seeing many regular Pakistani members getting temporary bans, which is great for the health of the forum. Mostly as a result of useless Muhajir-Pukhtoon rivalry, abuse of Islam by some leftist/atheist types, and also Sunni-Shia nonsense.

Mods have been doing great work, I especially want to point out @Dubious and @waz . I am sure others have been doing great work behind the scenes too.

By the way, some of my favorite members like @Indus Pakistan @OsmanAli98 @Ahmet Pasha @paktoon_yum @Taimur Khurram can be a bit tough, but we really need such people posting here for their strong viewpoints.

Damn,,,10 page discussion.
Trolling is one thing but if u want quality posts thn u got to have quality posters,,,,where r they???

Most Indian 'quality' posters left,,,other nationalities were already rare,,,Pakistani posters worth reading harldy post anymore,,,so much so,tht now even hashtag mangus feels like an intellectual.
Andho me kana raja kind of situation.
But its ok,,as some mod say,,this is nxt generation warfare,,spparrtaa.

-33 rating, troll you need to get lost. I have seen your venomous posts on this forum. Don't act all high and mighty.

The only Indian member I like is @jamahir even though I disagree with his views.

 

[Nilgiri]

I'm going to bug you more now on

Please by all means. Tag/msg me whenever...you seem promising neutral mod Did you return recently?

 

[Dual Wielder]

Subconsciously, Pakistanis are being slowly neutered and told to occupy some imaginary moral high ground, while our enemies fight dirtiest.

Exactly, this is why this nation is so backwards, its not just the general populace, but our leadership have had this disease, we have had 'yes men' as leaders who gladly followed their masters double standards at the cost of our national interests. Just look at Ayub Khan for example when he should have gone to liberate Kashmir when given the golden opportunity I.e. During the sino-hind clash in the early 60's, but instead made a pinky promise with the Americans not to, trusting those backstabbing swine's.. (We were later gifted with the 65 war and later the dismemberment in 71 not to forget the countless embargoes and sanctions that followed). Fast forward to today we still paying for his blunderers and many of his successors.

Anyway good post

 

[Gibbs]

Then you have some Non-Muslim members (along with Indians,) such as SL, Chinese, Vietnamese (lol)

@jaibi @PakistaniJunior.... I rest my case mates.. Whats quoted above is exactly what i have mentioned.. Essentially there's no space here for non Muslims anymore not surprising that the poster regards any non Muslim sub human to which i have retorted hence his ax to grind.. And about me being anti Islam i have been posting here since 2013 exchanging views and engaging in discussions with myriad of posters from all backgrounds, Religions and nationalities, Never have i been accused of being anything anti other than religious extremism of any form, Perhaps just that extremists get triggered by this, Including one or two Mod's that hold that narrative

I kind of forewarned my mate @waz about what this forum would turn out to be perhaps with some actions they took with regard to blanket ban on Indian posters, with good intentions maybe but back fired with no dissent or alternate views being tolerated anymore

Sad part is PDF once a rare platform of intellectual and defence related discussions is turning in to just another hyper religious/nationalist forum among hundreds more online

 

[halupridol]

-33 rating, troll you need to get lost. I have seen your venomous posts on this forum. Don't act all high and mighty.

The only Indian member I like is @jamahir even though I disagree with his views.

Oh,,the negatives, so,u want me to feel ashamed of the negatives i recieved,,n get lost/quit.
Yes,, perhaps I shud be ashamed of negatives i received for (venomous)posts I wrote in this anonymous forum,,serious matter,,, do i regret it,, not much.

But it's Rich coming from u.
I mean,,lets see,which country has hurt Pakistan the most in last few decades?
Which country has single handedly n perhaps irreparably destroyed the Islamic world, damaged the Muslim psyche ,ravaged muslim lands, subjugated/humiliated much of the Islamic world???
Israel, no
India, again no.
Yup u guessed it right,,,USA.
But here u re, sitting comfortably in US,,n beating ur chest on internet for kashmir, palestine etc,,, while living off American money.saluting thr flag, tolerating gays,tolerating the insults to Islam, tolerating Trump,
n probably lining up to get thr citizenshp.

N yeah yeah,,,u must have obligations, which made u stay in US working hard thr,like supporting family, getting education.
Otherwise u wud have gone back to Islamic Republic of Pakistan in no time.so untill ur "obligations" r done with, u'll stay in murica.(I know the typical answer)

Meanwhile u write posts n show ur patriotism n iman,,,, ON INTERNET.
Writing 13K+ posts in less thn 2years(too much free timetime, while working hard on ur obligations)on an anonymous internet forum,,with no real life consequences. How very convenient for a person like u
Very ghairatmand indeed.

Ek taraf ghairat aur dusri taraf 2 rupaye jyada.
I know,,Very difficult, ,wht to choose.

 

[Gibbs]

Oh,,the negatives, so,u want me to feel ashamed of the negatives i recieved,,n get lost/quit.
Yes,, perhaps I shud be ashamed of negatives i received for (venomous)posts I wrote in this anonymous forum,,serious matter,,, do i regret it,, not much.

But it's Rich coming from u.
I mean,,lets see,which country has hurt Pakistan the most in last few decades?
Which country has single handedly n perhaps irreparably destroyed the Islamic world, damaged the Muslim psyche ,ravaged muslim lands, subjugated/humiliated much of the Islamic world???
Israel, no
India, again no.
Yup u guessed it right,,,USA.
But here u re, sitting comfortably in US,,n beating ur chest on internet for kashmir, palestine etc,,, while living off American money.saluting thr flag, tolerating gays,tolerating the insults to Islam, tolerating Trump,
n probably lining up to get thr citizenshp.

N yeah yeah,,,u must have obligations, which made u stay in US working hard thr,like supporting family, getting education.
Otherwise u wud have gone back to Islamic Republic of Pakistan in no time.so untill ur "obligations" r done with, u'll stay in murica.(I know the typical answer)

Meanwhile u write posts n show ur patriotism n iman,,,, ON INTERNET.
Writing 13K+ posts in less thn 2years(too much free timetime, while working hard on ur obligations)on an anonymous internet forum,,with no real life consequences. How very convenient for a person like u
Very ghairatmand indeed.

Ek taraf ghairat aur dusri taraf 2 rupaye jyada.
I know,,Very difficult, ,wht to choose.

The bloke is here to promote his extremist ideology, Not to discuss military or political matters, That's evidently clear