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Palestine: Two-State Solution of Hamas or wait for the Caliphate

I'm having a tough time finding a non-subscription link to the sources I want, but the Wikipedia entry on Abdul Hamid II contains this unattributed quote (I think it is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern Zionism) of the Caliph's reply to Herzl request that he endorse the return of Jews to their ancestral home:
...to have the scalpel cut my body is less painful than to witness Palestine being detached from the Khilafah state and this is not going to happen ...let the Jews keep their millions and once the Khilafah is torn apart one day, then they can take Palestine without a price -​
Herzl thought it was a refusal. Yet it was not, for once the Ottoman Empire disintegrated, Caliph Muhammed VI explicitly endorsed Palestine as a Jewish National Home in Article 95 of the Treaty of Sevres. The terms regarding Palestine were incorporated into the British Mandate of Palestine by the League of Nations.

Thanks for providing a source to your statement. But I have reservation about the validity of the interpretation that led to your statement.

Let's see ... so we have an old man who possessed an expensive piece of heirloom. Someone came along and offered a princely sum for it. He said: "No - it ain't for sale. And in fact it's so not-for-sale that I'd rather cut off a piece of my own flesh than part with it ... and save you money! You can get it for free over my dead body!"

In my books that's hardly a consent to give it away upon his actual demise. To me that's a statement of emphatic refusal laced with extra vehemence ...

Anyhow, even if we go along with your interpretation of the Sultan's "bequeathment", it still doesn't make an exclusively Jewish land with everyone else cleaned out or rendered without status ...

Finally, the Treaty of Sèvres was signed when Istanbul was under occupation, which makes it as sound a legal basis as the Treaty of Versailles.

And legally it was annulled and superceded by the Treaty of Lausanne anyway thanks to the Turkish Independence War.

Now what does the Treaty of Lausanne say?

• Palestine was treated by the arbitrator as one of a number of successor states to the Ottoman Empire, being responsible for a share of its liabilities and taking a share of its assets. It was treated as a successor state to the Ottoman Empire in regard to citizenship in the Treaty of Lausanne, where Article 30 required it to treat Ottoman nationals inhabiting Palestine as nationals of Palestine. Article 30, moreover, referred to the "states" being detached hom the Ottoman Empire, a reference that was to the mandate territories.

• Palestine had a nationality separate from that of the mandatory, a nationality that was internationally recognized. Its status as a state is seen in the Palestine Mandate provisions on treaties. Arnold McNair makes a distinction, in his treatise on treaties, between the power to conclude a treaty and the capacity to do so. Under the mandate, Britain as mandatory had the power, while Palestine had the capacity. Under the Palestine Mandate, the power to conclude treaties was with the mandatory power, but the capacity to do so was that of Palestine. A considerable number of treaties were concluded by the mandatory in the name of Palestine.​
 
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In 1901 the Jewish banker Mizray Qrasow and two other Jewish influential leaders came to visit Abdul Hameed, they offered to give him :

1) Paying ALL the debts of the Ottoman state.
2) Building the Navy of the Ottoman state.
3) 35 Million Golden Leeras without interest to support the prosperity of the Ottoman state.

In Exchange for

1) Allowing Jews to visit Palestine anytime they please, and to stay as long as they want "to visit the holy sites."
2) Allowing the Jews to build settlements where they live, and they wanted them to be located near Jerusalem.

Abdul Hameed refused to even meet them, he sent his answer to them through Tahsin Pasha, and the answer was "Tell those impolite Jews that the debts of the Ottoman state are not a shame, France has debts and that doesn't effect it. Jerusalem became a part of the Islamic land when Omar Bin Alkhattab took the city and I am not going to carry the historical shame of selling the holy lands to the Jews and betraying the responsibility and trust of my people. May the Jews keep their money, the Ottoman's will not hide in castles built with the money of the enemies of Islam." He also told them to leave and never come back to meet him again. With the Jews and Zionists in the game the set was complete, and the play of the end of the Ottoman state was about to start. The Jewish money was an important asset to finance the destruction of the Ottoman state to build the Zionist state in Palestine, the state that Jews wanted so badly they were willing to risk anything for.

The Jews did not give up on Abdul Hameed, later in the same year, 1901, the founder of the Zionist movement, Theodor Hertzil, visited Istanbul and tried to meet Abdul Hameed. Abdul Hameed refused to meet him and he told his Head Of The Ministers Council "Advise Dr. Herzil not to take any further steps in his project. I can not give away a handful of the soil of this land for it is not my own, it is for all the Islamic Nation. The Islamic Nation that fought Jihad for the sake of this land and they have watered it with their blood. The Jews may keep their money and millions. If the Islamic Kalifah State is one day destroyed then they will be able to take Palestine without a price! But while I am alive, I would rather push a sword into my body than see the land of Palestine cut and given away from the Islamic State. This is something that will not be, I will not start cutting owr bodies while we are alive." After this, the Jews turned to the British to turn their dreams into reality.

The British and French were ready to finish the Ottoman State, still the word "Jihad" was powerful enough to make all Europe tremble. Europe still feared the Sick Man Of Europe. The British decided to use its most important foreign policy, devide and conquer. It supported new groups like Young Turkey and Young Arabia. When Young Turkey became strong in the Ottoman state, Britain did not need to do anything anymore, Young Turks did the rest, they started a national and prejidice stream withen the Turkish citiziens of the Islamic State. In resonse, Arabs, Armenians, Kurds and other races developed their own national brand. People started feeling a part of their race not a part of the state, and that was the beggining of the end of the Islamic state. Later in WWI, Arabs collaborated with the Bristish and French and revolted against the Ottoman State. They were betrayed by the British and French and later invaded.

Abdul Hamid did not forget the development of his state, he built many institutions and services to the public like Hamedi market, Alazm palace in Damascus. He also built many mosques, public bathes, markets and hospitals in Cairo, Demscus, Sana, Baghdad and the rest of the Islamic cities. He also worked on the development of the educational system. The Ottomans tried to imitate the European educational system but they failed, except in two areas, Medicine and Military. The Ottoman army was not as weak as people today think it was. The Ottoman artillary was the strongest in the world. The Ottoman Navy was very well organized and was ranked the world's third most powerful fleet after the English and French. Many industries such as weapons manufacturing, weaving and Sugar appeared. The road system was updated,and seaports were expanded. Many new newsprints were established and before the first world war Egypt, Iraq and Great Syria had more than 1300 newspapers and magazines.

For a little time it appeared like the Sick Man of Europe will finally stand up, but the western allies were determined to destroy the Islamic Unity at any cost. The non-muslim minorities in the Ottoman state were used by the West to create trouble and instability, especially the Christian citiziens of the state. The western states always interfered in the Ottoman domestic policy under the excuse of "protecting the Christian minorities." The west also launched a campaign of Christian preaching in the Islamic world by building Christian schools and churches. The target was snatching muslims away from Islam and spreading un-islamic social habits and ideas. Many newsprints were also established for the same reason, to poison the minds of the muslims and spread destructive ideas and misconceptions between them. The west also wanted to make the Ottoman state busy and for that it used the minorities again. The west encouraged the Armenians and financed their revolution against the Ottoman state. England helped the Druz and France helped the Maronites in Lebanon and they both engaged in a big battle that was solved by the interference of the Ottoman army. More troubles between Muslims and Christians took place, and at some time the Muslim population of Damascus was about to wipe the Christian population of the city. The Ottoman army interfered in the last moments and prevented a massacre from taking place. That era was a constant battle between the conspiracies of the west and the defence of Abdul Hameed and the rest of the faithful Muslims.

It is important to mention that the debts of the Ottoman state, when Abdul Hameed came to power, were 2,528 Million Ottoman golden Leeras. When he was removed from power they were only 106 Million Leera. Which means he cut the debt to about 1/20 of its original value. The Young Turks, who came after Abdul Hameed, raised it back by 1300%. Such an achivement of Abdul Hameed would give the impression that he could not spend on development, but that is untrue. Abdul Hameed established fax lines between Yemen, Hijaz, Great Syria, Iraq and Turkey. Then he connected it to the fax lines of Iran and India. He managaed to earn back the cost of the project withen only two years because of the extensive use of these lines by the Hujjaj (the people who go to Mecca to do the pilgramage).
 
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your answers ....

answer to question 1

Imam Al Mahdi will be the Khalifa Insha Allah ..... Prophet (SA) said

"he will fill the world with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny"
(tirmizi, Abu Dawood)

With big struggle and sacrifices, He and his army will prepare the world for the arrival of Hazrat Isa (AS) , so that he may come and rule the world from Jerusalam as he is the true Messiah....


answer to question 2

he will not be chosen by so called elections and votings......

He is a common man and in Masjid Al Haram about 300 muslims will recognize him as the Mahdi...

please study Hadiths of Prophet (SA) in which he have stated the signs that will indicate that The arrival of Mahdi is very near..

some of signs include that a ruler (most probably of Saudi Arabia as indicated in hadiths) and their will be great conflicts regarding the succession.... Another sign states there will be a lunar eclipse in the beginning and a lunar eclipse at the end of Ramadan and one solar eclipse in the mid of Ramadan... Another sign state that their will be killing and robbing of muslims while performing Hajj obligations in Arafat ... theses are few ... their are many other signs .. so search on internet the books about the signs of Mahdi's arrival.. in the year in which these signs will be fulfilled Insha Allah, Holy Prophet (SA) said Imam Al Mahdi will come in THE SAME YEAR

At first he will not accept their claim that he is in fact the Mahdi.. but later on forcing he will accept it and all of them will start the struggle for Islam....

answer to question 3

As stated above in the hadith , he and his army will struggle to finish injustice...... His main responsibilities will be Insha Allah to unite the MUSLIM UMMAH and to continue the already started Jihad against the non muslims who are doing cruelty and terrorism on muslims... He will fight great battles...

Pease read the book on Imam Al mahdi , Dajjal and Hazrat Isa (AS).... these are very easily available on internet....

That's not what I meant.

I meant before the Mahdi, will there be some other person to be Khalifa? Like, some other dude, not Mahdi. Someone else that predesignated him and got things started.
 
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This message has been deleted by T-Faz. Reason: Offensive and false.

What is Offensive and false ?

Saying that deceit is nothing new to Jihadi terrorists ? or Saying that they have practicing deceit from the beginning of Islam ? or According to your prophet "War is Deceit" (Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 267)?

Or Bitter truths are offensive to you, T-Faz ?
 
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That's not what I meant.

I meant before the Mahdi, will there be some other person to be Khalifa? Like, some other dude, not Mahdi. Someone else that predesignated him and got things started.

no, there wouldn't actually! Muslims are going to suffer more in the years before the appearance of the Mahdi and America will lose its position as the world most powerful country (both economically and militarily) while israel will expand and get stronger and at the same time israel will use new and deadly weapons in war.

Basically Al-Mahdi will come in a time when oppression, persecution, corruption, and all the bad immoral things will be taking place!
 
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The Jews did not give up on Abdul Hameed, later in the same year, 1901, the founder of the Zionist movement, Theodor Hertzil, visited Istanbul and tried to meet Abdul Hameed. Abdul Hameed refused to meet him and he told his Head Of The Ministers Council "Advise Dr. Herzil not to take any further steps in his project. I can not give away a handful of the soil of this land for it is not my own, it is for all the Islamic Nation. The Islamic Nation that fought Jihad for the sake of this land and they have watered it with their blood. The Jews may keep their money and millions. If the Islamic Kalifah State is one day destroyed then they will be able to take Palestine without a price! But while I am alive, I would rather push a sword into my body than see the land of Palestine cut and given away from the Islamic State. This is something that will not be, I will not start cutting owr bodies while we are alive." After this, the Jews turned to the British to turn their dreams into reality.

These words will never be forgotten, i have always admired the brave Ottoman Turks and will continue to do so forever!

Those Arabs that betrayed the Caliphate were later themselves betrayed by their british "allies", and now look at the mess they got themselves into today and yet Turkey and the Turkish people still stand up and defend the Arabs while the ****** coward Arab leadership does nothing but condemn israel!
 
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One day after Herzl's arrival in Constantinople in June 1896, he [Abdulhamid] told Herzl's aide, Philipp Michael de Newlinski,
If Mr. Herzl is as much your friend as you are mine then advise him not to take another step in this matter. I cannot sell even a foot of land, for it does not belong to me, but to my people. My people have won this empire by fighting for it with their blood and have fertilized it with their blood. We will again cover it with our blood before we allow it to be wrested away from us. The men of two of my regiments from Syria and Palestine let themselves be killed one by one at Plevna. [see Battle of Plevna] Not one of them yielded; they all gave their lives on that battlefield. The Turkish Empire belongs not to me, but to the Turkish people. I cannot give away any part of it. Let the Jews save their billions. When my Empire is partitioned, they may get Palestine for nothing. But only our corpse will be divided. I will not agree to vivisection.
- From the Diaries of Theodor Herzl, i, 378 (19.6.1896), quoted in The Arabs and Zionism Before World War I, Neville J. Mandel, University of California Press, 1976, page 11.
 
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That's not what I meant.

I meant before the Mahdi, will there be some other person to be Khalifa? Like, some other dude, not Mahdi. Someone else that predesignated him and got things started.

there will be no khalifah immediately before him ... he will be the first khalifah when the khilafat will come in future Insha Allah.....Hadiths gives us the indications that the muslim world will be in the state of war and great cruelty will be being by non muslims as it is being done today..

according to hadith every leader of country will be a munafiq , as it today... therfore no country leader will call for Khilafat and no ruler will start striving for starting khilafat....

the struggle for khilafat will start only when the signs of mahdi arrivals fulfills and in the same year about 300 muslims will identify a man, whose name will be the same name as of Muhammad (SA), as Imam Al Mahdi in Masjid Al Haram....


there will be armies from various parts of the world that will support him for khilafat, when he will emerge in Masjid Al Haram... this includes the army from khorasan (Afghanistan and some parts of Pakistan and Iran) , army of pious people from syria (greater Shaam) and Baghdad (Iraq) and many other group of muslim soldiers ....

But there will be no Khalifah immediately before him. with these armies and with the support of muslims in the muslim world he will achieve Khilafat and will prepare the world for the arrival of Hazrat Isa (AS)....
 
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Those Arabs that betrayed the Caliphate were later themselves betrayed by their british "allies", and now look at the mess they got themselves into today and yet Turkey and the Turkish people still stand up and defend the Arabs while the ****** coward Arab leadership does nothing but condemn israel!


Also Posted by SilentNinja:

"yeah, i think 9/11 was an inside job! .... name me "SilentNazi"
 
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