Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Media also shows picture of Babur missile when reporting the test firing of Shaheed three so there is that!!

Yes we were looking for a LIFT but JF17B is most likely an response to that (along with export requirement).
For tank engine, Ukraine is what we would be relying upon for some years to come. Best to get both 1200 hp and 1500 hp with ToT and look for some 800-1000 hp as well if possible.
Yes there were some talks about these things but that was not an official interest and it is long dead story now.


And dont you think we need to first see for our self how good those M-114 can be after upgrade? Ergo the procurement of one Kh179 for trials?

Actually, the JF-17B won't be the PAF's LIFT. From his recent interactions with ACM Sohail Aman, Alan Warnes said the PAF doesn't think that current LIFT platforms offer much value relative to the cost. In fact, the LIFTs on the market today are too complex and over-equipped for the role. So the PAF will use FT-7s as LIFT.

That said, I personally suspect the PAF is awaiting the TAI-SNC Freedom Trainer. If you read through Aviation Week's interview with SNC, you'll find that the Freedom Trainer is being designed to the ignore complex and costly subsystems the PAF was uncomfortable with in the L-15 and T-50. It'll even use non-afterburning turbofans (something the PAF implied it would prefer). No secondary role for light fighter or strike, just a pure FBW-equipped trainer for LIFT with low acquisition and operating costs.

http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/sierra-nevada-corp-tai-team-offer-freedom-trainer-t-x

Sorry for going off topic, back to artillery. A recent Serbian article says something about the Pakistan Army wanting 700 SPHs and testing a Serb rocket too? @proka89 would you be able to translate or explain what's being said in the link below?

http://www.pravda.rs/2017/05/11/snaga-srpskog-oruzja/

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan offered KH179 155mm towed artillery by South Korea

 

[Gryphon]

How many panters were actually inducted?
Wikipedia shows 200 plus A-100E MBRL systems for PA.Is this true?If true it seems an enormous amount.

Some unverified reports say 72 were produced.

But none was seen in Pakistan in the last decade (the first gun arrived for trials in 2007 or 2008). Probably, it failed the tests and Army decided to upgrade existing M114.

A recent Serbian article says something about the Pakistan Army wanting 700 SPHs and testing a Serb rocket too? @proka89 would you be able to translate or explain what's being said in the link below?

http://www.pravda.rs/2017/05/11/snaga-srpskog-oruzja/

Thanks for the news.

 

[Path-Finder]

Many years ago a production line was obtained from SK for making ammo for 155mm guns but no modern guns were acquired. Bizarre way defence procurements works in Pakistan.

 

[Arsalan]

We have over 150 of those guns, and we can either replace them or give them a cheap upgrade.

And not alot of upgrades are available on the market...

Now, dont get riled up over nothing im not zarvan with wish lists.

And i merely talk about giving preferance to R&D (local/indigenous solutions).

Buying hundreds of arty guns for billions of dollars is foolish, if u have the capabilty to develop and produce them at home.... billions of dollars could help develop jobs,experience and expertise for future projects.


PA's M114:

View attachment 402814


KH 179 upgrade:

View attachment 402815

Lolz
ooye kya matlab ha kay i am not zarvan? so now he is to be used as an example?

Not getting riled up, may be roza laga hua ho so my words were a bit strong, sorry about that. There were no wrong intentions.

All i am saying is that it is wrong to start saying that they should have prefered local manufacturing because it is not clear yet what they are opting for. They might very well go for ToT and already be thinking about locl production. It id not like they ha e IMPORTED hundreds of guns for billuons of dollars as you say. Truals and evaluation will happen even with local production.

These are some unconfirmed news following some confimred reports of interest in towed artillery. This gun, if real, is coming for evaluatiin and there surely will be be more types too. Evaluating this may help us decide on upgrading those M114 or not so that too will be benificial.

In short, a bit early to comment what should or should not have been. WE DONT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.

 

[Sliver]

isnt India getting new arty guns from S.Korea too?

 

[Arsalan]

Sorry for going off topic, back to artillery. A recent Serbian article says something about the Pakistan Army wanting 700 SPHs and testing a Serb rocket too? @proka89 would you be able to translate or explain what's being said in the link below?

http://www.pravda.rs/2017/05/11/snaga-srpskog-oruzja/

That off-topic part was very informative as well. Thank you.

As for the Serbian gun, it will confirm upon that Nora B52 that was being evaluated. One gun was confirmed and there are reports that it was sent back and then arrived back again after some modifications. If the new article can be translated i think it will only further confirm the existence of that on going oroject and may be even shed some light upon a possible winner. As far as i know, Nora B52 and T5-52 were evaluated. After trials they went back but the Nora came back again with some changes. Perhaps this gun was deemed best fit and some tweaks were requested. I am not aware of Caesar in Pakistan however.

Some unverified reports say 72 were produced.

But none was seen in Pakistan in the last decade (the first gun arrived for trials in 2007 or 2008). Probably, it failed the tests and Army decided to upgrade existing M114.



Thanks for the news.

12 were to be imported. 60 were to be made at HIT. At least the imported ones are here and some suggest that HIT also made but that is not confirmed and i am not sure about it. These were a failuer however and are not active duty. One was said to be present at artillery school, again, not active (not even part of training).

SPH will surely be a different project.

 

[Gryphon]

Many years ago a production line was obtained from SK for making ammo for 155mm guns but no modern guns were acquired. Bizarre way defence procurements works in Pakistan.

Army did intend to acquire Norinco SH-1 and MKEK Panter.

These are some unconfirmed news following some confimred reports of interest in towed artillery. This gun, if real, is coming for evaluatiin and there surely will be be more types too. Evaluating this may help us decide on upgrading those M114 or not so that too will be benificial.

In short, a bit early to comment what should or should not have been. WE DONT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.

The Korean howitzer arrived in Pakistan on 3 January 2017 and the recipient was INSPECTORATE OF ARMAMENTS. The exporter was HANWHA CORPORATION. Visit the below link.

http://pak.eximtradeinfo.com/items/kh179

 

[Path-Finder]

Army did intend to acquire Norinco SH-1 and MKEK Panter.



The Korean howitzer arrived in Pakistan on 3 January 2017 and the recipient was INSPECTORATE OF ARMAMENTS. The exporter was HANWHA CORPORATION. Visit the below link.

http://pak.eximtradeinfo.com/items/kh179

Any news on Caesar as per @Horus it was being inspected?

Makes sense to buy Korean Gun for Korean Ammo. Even though its NATO standard to be fired from any NATO standard barrel

 

[Arsalan]

Army did intend to acquire Norinco SH-1 and MKEK Panter.



The Korean howitzer arrived in Pakistan on 3 January 2017 and the recipient was INSPECTORATE OF ARMAMENTS. The exporter was HANWHA CORPORATION. Visit the below link.

http://pak.eximtradeinfo.com/items/kh179

So it means its aurely here then. It must indicate that a few more might come for trials? There were some report of Turkey offering an improved Panter as well. Lets see.

Any news on Caesar as per @Horus it was being inspected?

Makes sense to buy Korean Gun for Korean Ammo. Even though its NATO standard to be fired from any NATO standard barrel

You replied the question yourself. Its not Korean ammo as such as far as standardization is concerned. Its a NATO standard so there are many guns that can make use of it.

We are looking for wheeled SPH. Now here is news regarding towed artillery as well, we were said to look at them after SPH. Also there is a report regarding 700 SPH from Serbia (Nora B52 was evaluated and certain tweaks were requested)

I would say its enough ammo to engage in speculations!!

readyyyyyyy.....

 

[Path-Finder]

So it means its aurely here then. It must indicate that a few more might come for trials? There were some report of Turkey offering an improved Panter as well. Lets see.


You replied the question yourself. Its not Korean ammo as such as far as standardization is concerned. Its a NATO standard so there are many guns that can make use of it.

We are looking for wheeled SPH. Now here is news regarding towed artillery as well, we were said to look at them after SPH. Also there is a report regarding 700 SPH from Serbia (Nora B52 was evaluated and certain tweaks were requested)

I would say its enough ammo to engage in speculations!!

readyyyyyyy.....

The interesting thing is this gun is used in K9 with longer barrel which is built in Turkey as Fritna. But that is altogether a different discussion. I wonder How well the Denel did. Regardless I hope wheeled SPH procurement is fast tracked with additionally it must come with the most favorite word of our Hazrat 'ToT'

come on now Speculation is the basis of this Forum.

 

[Arsalan]

I wonder How well the Denel did.

Apprantly not so well.
Two guns came, both went back after evaluation only for one of them to return. Then this article shared above about the same gun.

Just saying.

 

[Path-Finder]

Apprantly not so well.
Two guns came, both went back after evaluation only for one of them to return. Then this article shared above about the same gun.

Just saying.

Just read the article and I didn't know until now that Nora meant crazy!

"Test and test-fired a ballistic missile from the system "šumadija" a range of 300 km, will be done these days in Pakistan, because the local desert still higher than polygons in Nikinci. In Pakistan successfully completed the testing of our self-propelled howitzers "Crazy 52" Pakistanis have announced the purchase of 700 fantastic "crazy".

Welcome 700 Fantastic Crazy

 

[Arsalan]

Just read the article and I didn't know until now that Nora meant crazy!

"Test and test-fired a ballistic missile from the system "šumadija" a range of 300 km, will be done these days in Pakistan, because the local desert still higher than polygons in Nikinci. In Pakistan successfully completed the testing of our self-propelled howitzers "Crazy 52" Pakistanis have announced the purchase of 700 fantastic "crazy".

Welcome 700 Fantastic Crazy

Reading about Nora all i love is MRSI.

Serously, it is a good system and MRSI also is a game changer. As i said, this is what keep artillery relevant in modern combat. There are unit level efforts to make our existing guns computerized and that will be a huge advantage if aupported by top brass. There is some real talent out there, USE IT is the message

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Many years ago a production line was obtained from SK for making ammo for 155mm guns but no modern guns were acquired. Bizarre way defence procurements works in Pakistan.

Base bleed and other rounds.