pakistan's and their reluctance to evolve with western culture.

[Desert Fox]

Islam offers such freedom as well as long as the rules and regulations set by the Creator are not broken, if one wants to break such laws, they can if they want to but they would have to deviate away from Islam to do it, it is a very big misconception that Islam oppresses humanity and such misconception is fueled through sheer ignorance and lack of knowledge, let me give you a series of examples to reinforce my point.

According to the Quran and Hadith there are basically six criteria for observing hijab and hijab in layman terms is Allah SWT ki nazr mai gheero k samnai kapray mehnai ka sahi tareeqa:

1. Extent:The first criterion is the extent of the body that should be covered. This is different for men and women. The extent of covering obligatory on the male is to cover the body at least from the navel to the knees. For women, the extent of covering obligatory is to cover the complete body except the face and the hands upto the wrist. If they wish to, they can cover even these parts of the body.

All the remaining five criteria are the same for men and women.

2. The clothes worn should be loose and should not reveal the figure.
3. The clothes worn should not be transparent such that one can see through them.
4. The clothes worn should not be so glamorous as to attract the opposite gender.
5. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the opposite gender.
6. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the unbelievers i.e. they should not wear clothes that are specifically identities or symbols of the unbelievers’ religions.

Lack of knowledge and ignorance might lead some to believe that the concept of hijab oppresses women or is only meant for them and not for men as well but with an objective reasoning and comparing western lifestyle with Islam, one would realize as long as he is not biased that it is the other way around, in the western culture women are used as tools in marketing businesses, in fashion, in prostitution, in pornography and mega corporations etc, women in social environments are indirectly pressured to loose morality so that they can be part of the system, the very concept of Hijab threatens such systems and uplifts women as individualists.

Some after reading those 6 criteria's might use the first point as an excuse to raise the issue of inequality and oppression, so to answer them in Islam (keep in mind every thing that I am stating here is part of the Sharia and Khilafah) the reason why the awrah of men (exposing of the chest and hair etc) compared to women has been lowered is because the complete financial burden falls to men, women are not required to work but they can if they want to (as long as the work both men and women do is legal/Halal), so because the complete financial burden falls to men and some are most likely involved in heavy labor or construction work or some go to war etc a leniency has been given to them, In Islam both men and women are equal but they are not one and the same, women are emotionally, physically and physiologically different from men, In certain situations men exceed women and in other women exceed men so advantage has been given to women where men exceed and to men where women exceed, such is not practiced in western culture and laws, women and men are not safeguarded when they are at a disadvantage which gives rise to many problems like for example the 50% divorce rate in the US and the major cause for this being adultery and cheating on your spouse, pre-marital relationships and 50%-50% break away of property at the time of divorce makes the very concept of marriage obsolete, family life completely destroyed as senior citizens and old parents are thrown away in old homes etc, it is only through one's own inability to acquire knowledge and being ignorant about Islam (no offense intended) can lead to such misconceptions while there are profound answers to such problems in Islam given by the Creator, we don't need to follow or adopt western culture, we just need to learn who we are.

Valentine's day encourages pre-marital relationship which in turn causes a lot of problems later at marriage and destroys families and is apparently evident in western lifestyles and culture, you are welcome to follow them if you like but you would have to deviate away from the morality of Islam to do it.

@Horus @Oscar @WAJsal @Ammara Chaudhry @Zarvan @Neutron @Hell hound @DesertFox97 @Desert Fox

Now western culture has taken the place Quran and Sunnah? (Naozobillah)
May be I am wrong in accessing your meaning but your thread tittle gave the same impression.

Our so called "Liberals" are willing to accept homosexuality and gay marriage too if it wasn't for the fear of backlash from the common Pakistani who still holds on to Islam. These "liberals" are nothing but a crowd of insecure folks with a inferiority complex vis a vis the West.


The prophet (S.A.W.) said, "You will surely follow the ways, steps, or traditions of those who came before you, span by span and yard by yard (very closely) even if they entered into a lizard's hole you will enter it." The companions asked, "O prophet, you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else!?" [Reported by Imaam Bukhaari] In another hadeeth, he clearly prohibited imitation stating, "If one imitates another nation or people, he will be from them." [Reported by Imaam Abu-Daawud]

 

[JonAsad]

this thread is made for continuation of discussion from Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad?
my last post in that thread was
believe me i would be more then happy to see my people to become more like them in every field and behavior.but let me remind you those thing which were taboos few years ago are norms of today like voting rights of women racial discrimination and slavery. islam allow you to own slave but then why every Islamic country has abolished it.we were allowed to own slave with few condition met then why we abandon that practice let me tell you why because it was out dated practice with no place in today's society.same things happen with racial laws and women rights.world is changing and we need to change with it.i am not saying that we should blindly follow western or any other culture.but we should give them a chance to merge with ours to make a more tolerating and flexible Pakistan because if we don't world will move forward an we will be left behind and alone.look at turkey uae Malaysia they didn't lost their culture but simply merged it with international one and they are far more accepted then we are.

Source: Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad? | Page 6
@Ammara Chaudhry

Why can't the west evolve with the eastern culture? -

Is this written some where in some rule book that the western culture should be adopted? -

If we can have the hump day or Valentine day why cant west have hijab day or bakra day? -

 

[salarsikander]

@Hell hound
How much time have you, if any, spend in Pakistan ?

 

[Pakistani E]

Which fool tells you that Islam allows to own slave ? Mr slavery was prevelant at that time and people didn't considered slave equals so what Islam first did was tell people to treat slaves on equal bases by giving them food which they eat themselves by giving slaves clothes which they themselves wear. So people started considering slaves as equal persons. As for next step ALLAH ordered Muslims to get their sins removed and forgiven ALLAH encouraged Muslims to free slaves and every Muslim than started buying slaves and used to set them free and after some time ALLAH prohibited to take prisoners in war which ended process of making new slaves and when 2nd Caliph of Islam came into power he banned slavery completely and set free all remaining slaves. As for western culture those things not going against Quran and Sunnah will be accepted and others will be rejected

First or second post I thanked of Zarvan. Well done, you sound sane.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

I just helped my daughter make home-made Valentines for everybody (boys and girls) in her 1st grade class. Do you really think that sounds like a bad thing? If anything it seems a bit Socialist.

Respectfully I would like to give my answer by raising another question, drunk driving and other related issue because of alcoholism causes a lot of problem in the west, In Islam consumption of alcohol is completely prohibited, you might argue that I control myself when I have alcohol and never exceed the allotted limit yes ok but can you guarantee as a nation you would never produce drunkards who will lose his/her kidney because of excessive consumption? or there would never be an individual who will drink and drive? I'm a Muslim living in a Muslim country and I have never even seen alcohol in my entire life, the problems that you might face because of alcohol doesn't even exist for me, Valentines day are one of the root causes of adultery and pre-marital relationships, it causes problems destroys families and marriage, you might say that you will abstain from such but you cannot guarantee as a nation that you will.

 

[Neutron]

Pakistan's and thier reluctance to evolve with westren culture , title of the thread is logically incorrect.

We don't evolve with western culture because we are Pakistan's with different culture and values. Let me rephrase the whole narrative for better understanding of fellow newbies.

why hindus are reluctant to evolve with muslim culture?
Why western are reluctant to evolve with eastern culture?
If superiority complex is the problem with someone its not my baby.

 

[Hell hound]

You have gotten one of the oldest, finest, most evolved cultures in human history, yet for some reason way beyond my understanding you wish to "evolve" with the "Western culture", to do what?

the culture where out cast marriage is still considered a taboo.a culture in which a transgenders are consider uchoot. a culture which can't tolerate its minorities.where you are not allowed to have freedom of speech. where you are considered an out cast if you think differently. where most of the power reside in the hand of illiterate mullah and people are willing to present them severed hand to please them.where small fights last for generations.
1960 and 70s was prime example liberal culture of Pakistan.we need to get that culture back.mate nothing is perfect every can be evolved into something better.

You cannot just become modern by doing everything west do. We should not follow western culture in everything. That is true. But then we are already following Arabic culture. We have forgotten about South Asian culture completely.

At least learn something from Japan and China in this one.

japans culture is perfect example of east and west merger they adapt western values while retaining their own traditional values.

 

[Neutron]

the culture where out cast marriage is still considered a taboo.a culture in which a transgenders are consider uchoot. a culture which can't tolerate its minorities.where you are not allowed to have freedom of speech. where you are considered an out cast if you think differently. where most of the power reside in the hand of illiterate mullah and people are willing to present them severed hand to please them.where small fights last for generations.
1960 and 70s was prime example liberal culture of Pakistan.we need to get that culture back.mate nothing is perfect every can be evolved into something better.


japans culture is perfect example of east and west merger they adapt western values while retaining their own traditional values.

You are not defining the culture you listed crimes

 

[Hell hound]

@Hell hound
How much time have you, if any, spend in Pakistan ?

i have spent last 6 years in pakistan.

 

[Moonlight]

death of one thing is beginning of another and losing and evolving two different things as i have explained in my other posts in this thread i am not saying that we should accept every aspect of western culture no questions ask.what i am trying to explain is instead of out rite rejecting them we should give their culture a chance and we will able to naturally absorb the good in their culture.as you can see in EU's case German and french are neighbors they share some value which they learn from each other yet they retain their own culture.a culture never die it just evolve into something more beautiful but in our case we are resisting that change.
if you reed my post again you will come to know that i wasn't discussing rights provide to slave by isalm but the practice of owning a slave which is outdated hence it was abolished by whole Muslim world even though Islam allowed them to own a slave.what does this proves is that values and culture of the world is evolving hence we feel the need to abolish these practice .islam gave us concept of basic female right 1400 years ago now its our turn to evolve those 1400 year old rights. at the day of their advent were great but now they are in dire need to evolve.but on other hand anti racial laws are up to date even by today's standard so their is no need to evolve them.the point i am trying to convey here is that there are few things in our culture that are not up to today's standard and we need to update those things and we can learn a thing or two from west.
who said west is not merging with east that merger happened 1000 years ago when west was learning from arabs they build upon that european+arab culture and use that evolved culture to defeat arabs themselves.and america is perfect example or and evolved global culture you can see good bits every culture in it.they evolved with it even after world war 2 they absorbed Japaneses culture in theirs.that the good thing about them the don't resist. thats the reason you can speak your mind their but in pakistan india or bangladesh may get heavy beating for doing the same thing.they give minority their rights but in subcontinent we burn then alive. in our culture doing business with qadiyani is haram and if you dont believe it to be a cultural thing then look at hafeez center fiasco you will see that majority of our people think that way .we need to change these thing you see i am not talking about just valentine day.but this unchallenged control of mullah brigade how are not letting us change because they will lose their power then.it is not these black friday or halloween or other holidays that are hurting us .these mullah and their unchallenged control is what is destroying us from within.these guys are the reason west don't talk to us.these guys are the reason we are still under developed not some holiday.
you talk about ummah and sacrifice of our people in 1947 both of these things and concept died in 1971 when we lost a part of our country just because we were unwilling to change because we were unwilling to merge with our Bengali brothers culture.


sorry for choosing the wrong word.the word i should have used was evolve.

Sir you're going off the topic and mixing it all with history. I am not in mood to reply to this. If I feel later I will reply to each point, I am reading the comments of others and seemingly you're getting the replies already.

 

[Hell hound]

You are not defining the culture you listed crimes

these crimes are drilled deep in our culture.these thing are taught to us since we are just few year old.it has become part of our culture

 

[CriticalThinker02]

the culture where out cast marriage is still considered a taboo.a culture in which a transgenders are consider uchoot. a culture which can't tolerate its minorities.where you are not allowed to have freedom of speech. where you are considered an out cast if you think differently. where most of the power reside in the hand of illiterate mullah and people are willing to present them severed hand to please them.where small fights last for generations.
1960 and 70s was prime example liberal culture of Pakistan.we need to get that culture back.mate nothing is perfect every can be evolved into something better.

We have such problems because we have not learned who we are, adopting the west would mean adopting their problems as well, we don't have to adopt anything we just have to learn who we are, illiterate mullahs don't have any real power, they just have influence over the masses, such influence is present because we the intellectual elites of Pakistan have not accepted and learned Islam, when we do and accept who we truly are such influence would seize to exist.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Pakistan's and thier reluctance to evolve with westren culture , title of the thread is logically incorrect.

We don't evolve with western culture because we are Pakistan's with different culture and values. Let me rephrase the whole narrative for better understanding of fellow newbies.

why hindus are reluctant to evolve with muslim culture?
Why western are reluctant to evolve with eastern culture?
If superiority complex is the problem with someone its not my baby.

THIS.......POTM..... Give this man a platinum star and a Baskin Robins cookie. You sir are a very intelligent abd shrewd man. Pakistan NEEDS more people like you

 

[salarsikander]

i have spent last 6 years in pakistan.

Hi,

And where ?

 

[Kompromat]

You are young and confused my friend, best regards.

the culture where out cast marriage is still considered a taboo.a culture in which a transgenders are consider uchoot. a culture which can't tolerate its minorities.where you are not allowed to have freedom of speech. where you are considered an out cast if you think differently. where most of the power reside in the hand of illiterate mullah and people are willing to present them severed hand to please them.where small fights last for generations.
1960 and 70s was prime example liberal culture of Pakistan.we need to get that culture back.mate nothing is perfect every can be evolved into something better.


japans culture is perfect example of east and west merger they adapt western values while retaining their own traditional values.

 

[Hell hound]

Hi,

And where ?

lahore,sadiqabad and few months in my grandfather's village.