pakistan's and their reluctance to evolve with western culture.

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

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DHA , Karachi

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Hai, Hai! Sharm! Sharm!

Yeh to mera iman aur culture sara ghaib ho gaya ghubaray dekh kay!

Oye, mera tau rang bhi Gora ho gaya! Goodbye fair and Lovely!!!!! Welcome Valentines Day celeberations!

 

[shah_123]

So Islam doesn't promote love or the expression of love for significant others or friends or family?

It does promote but Islam isn't dependent on others ways of promoting love or expression of love.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It does promote but Islam isn't dependent on others ways of promoting love or expression of love.

There is nothing in the Quran that prohibits 'others ways of promoting love or expression of love'. There is no one way to express love or promote love and Valentines Day is therefore completely aligned with Islam.

 

[Hell hound]

That would seem to work well for business loans, but how does Islamic Banking address borrowing by governments or welfare organizations for public sector projects like roads, hospitals, schools etc that do not offer 'profit returns'?

they will normally ask you to give some security and if you accidentally ask them how the process works.then you will have listen to 1 hour long sugar coated rudad about how it is different from from conventional banking while actually it will be a secure loan with all its features sugar coated
while in government case they get money by sharing profit of any of it profit making assets by issuing the sukkuk bound through islami banks.
so in Islamic banking you need to have a profit making asset to get money in Islamic way otherwise you will get normal loan under islamic name or if the bank is truly islamic they will reject your application instead of deceiving you(very very very rare).
there is another practice in which they will buy what ever you need and then will rent it to you at the rate they deem fit.some consider it halal while other consider it haram. so some bank might offer this way of rental finance to non profit organisation they lease asset to you for whole life of the asset.they own the asset while you use it on rental agreement and any damage to the asset is their loss not yours.but due high and unjust rate some ulma consider it haram while some say it is makroh like rent.
while i being and accounting student consider every thing except sukkuk total bullshit they are just giving conventional banking a new islami name.

 

[nvKyleBrown]

That's quite some verbal and reasoning gymnastics that you've engaged in. The argument began when you accused Pakistanis of not being really Pakistani because they had no cultural continuity with the land of Pakistan.

After I've demonstrated to you that I know far more about my family history and can trace it back much further than someone of European origin such as yourself; you now claim that you were never really interested in cultural continuity in the first place. That reminds me of Aesop's fable of the fox who being unable to reach the grapes, claimed that he never wanted them anyway

The Norsemen didn't 'discover' the Americas. You don't 'discover' something by arriving 15,000 years later And you make this claim too after admitting that a group of Asians had already settled it. You know what else? The Asian descendants in the Americas and the Asians on the Asian continent itself were trading long before Columbus lost his way

Bering Strait Artifacts Reveal Trade Between Asia And The New World Centuries Before Columbus : SCIENCE : Tech Times

If you're so 'forward looking' how is it that despite living in the Americas you believe you are 'Western'? The Americas are a land discovered, made habitable, and settled by an Asian people. Why do you keep looking back towards Europe when the Americas have just as much if not greater links with Asia and Africa? Shall I quote what the Greeks and Romans and the alleged founders of your 'Western' culture said about your German ancestors as compared to how they considered mine?? Because they sure as hell regarded us as civilized and you as slaves fit only for the mines and the pit. 'Western' my foot!

The Americas must have been a hell of a lot better than Europe considering how many white Europeans fled there, so the notion that the Americas became good because of your ancestors holds as much water as the leaky boats you landed in and immediately begged the Asian descended peoples of the Americas to pretty please supply you with food....

Haha...son, my ancestors taught yours to wear trousers, produce metal tools, grow wheat, and we invented the language of whose original form you've bastardized into 'german'. Basically we dragged you out of the Stone Age when the only thing you looked forward to was eating each other. And we know exactly which part of Asia you left before you began thinking you were better than us and your claims about being 'civilized'.

Yes, we saw how 'civilized' when you were killing each other like flies in the trenches, shoving millions of your minorities into the gas chambers, torturing and experimenting on others, and that's leaving aside the millions of each other that you raped. I'd have much greater respect for your claims of moral superiority if you weren't living on a land stolen from the people who fed white Europeans, and built with the labor of tens of millions of Africans. Your superiority. HA!

Our accomplishments are based on use of our own resources. Skills which we passed on to the rest of the world. Yours are based on the exploitation of others with the vilest treachery after pretending to be their friends e.g. the Native Americans. I'll leave aside how all you brave white European migrants in the Americas use Pashtuns to fight a war against the Russians. Just remember 'duck and cover' Johnny, and if you can't do that kiss the *** of those more powerful than you.

As for power plants, in the 1970's if the Saudi Arabs hadn't agreed to link gold to oil, the 'west' would have lost the Cold War and you'd be speaking Russian or Chinese. Your whole existence it seems is based on begging and stealing others resources and labor.

Still looking to the past. Brag about your ancestors, it seems it's the only thing you have. Looking to the past is a central reason for Pakistani misery, in my opinion. You're so proud of your ancestors you can't acknowledge anyone else's accomplishments, and therefore cannot value or adopt them. You realize Pashtuns were not the source of the math you're bragging about - that came many older sources and was largely compiled by Arabs who had contact with the many different cultures before them who had advanced mathmatics. (No Pashtuns there...) History of algebra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Likewise, most of the other accomplishments were someone else's. So it is with the world - "your people" (whichever people that is) will accomplish only a small portion of overall human progress. You can opt to only accept what was done locally, or you can adopt other stuff as it is invented, in spite of the fact that a Pashtun did not contribute to it. That is, in fact, what Islam did to achieve it's golden era.

You're equally wrong on the other areas you address, using half-truths and very biased interpretations of history to arrive at questionable results. Needless to say, America was not discovered by Pashtuns, nor where Pashtuns (or even Arabs) critical to "winning" the Cold War. The US was one of the top oil producing countries throughout the period - we cut back (remember the oil embargo?) and could have cut much further. The USSR collapsed under it's own weight, eventually. Sad to say, Pashtuns did not have much to do with that either. You are overestimating the importance of the Afghan war, probably because it was close to home and some of "your people" were involved.

As it happens, I am mostly German, but part American Indian as well (a very small part). I don't even know (or care) what the other parts are. I also have cousins who are half-Navajo, so there's that too. But, fundamentally, I reject your notion that ancestry matters. I don't care. I think it is for fools with nothing better to do with their lives right now than to relive the old days. You're going to brag about your ancestors, and I'm going to laugh at you for it.

In any case, you've missed my point. Your society and culture have changed in the past. Would it be so bad if it changed again? I think change is in order. I haven't lost power in months, and when I do, it's brief and due to uncontrollable natural circumstances (storms). How is your grid doing? Do you think that reminiscing about "back when we were great" will fix that? You remember they didn't have power back then, right?

 

[Adecypher]

You could have found an actual Islamic scholar's condemnation of Valentine's day and posted that here instead of this hate preacher.

Point taken, I should have. Now instead of finding an Islamic Scholar let see what common folks say about VD in Pakistan.

But can we pause for a moment and THINK how we would have felt if our beloved sister had a new valentines every year...hmmm

 

[LeifEricsson]

I see it mostly as a religious problem, whether it is caused by the masses or a conservative regime that strangles the rest of the population. Islam especially is extremely resistant to theological change (think changes like the Social Gospel that Christianity experienced in the U.S.) and Western culture comes into conflict with some Islamic tradition.
The fact that Abu Zayd was forcibly divorced from his wife and then exiled from Egypt because he claimed the Quran wasn't handed to Muhammad in complete form, or compulsory donning of a burqa/niqab is something that is totally at odds with western philosophy; this doesn't apply directly to Pakistan, but the roots are there and it is pretty easy to see why Islamic nations have a harder time accepting aspects of western culture, given how radically different near east and west have developed over the last 120 years.

 

[GiannKall]

I cannot even imagine westerners celebrating muslim holidays. Far rightists would scream about the end of western civilization

 

[Hell hound]

I cannot even imagine westerners celebrating muslim holidays. Far rightists would scream about the end of western civilization

same is the case here mullah will die before celebrating holidays which belong to our minorities or west.what some of us want here is more tolerant and moderate Pakistan.

 

[Apprentice]

same is the case here mullah will die before celebrating holidays which belong to our minorities or west.what some of us want here is more tolerant and moderate Pakistan.

Pakistan was made for Islam. Islam does not permit its followers to participate in the religious festivals of others.

same is the case here mullah will die before celebrating holidays which belong to our minorities or west.what some of us want here is more tolerant and moderate Pakistan.

Pakistan was made for Islam. Islam does not permit its followers to participate in the religious festivals of others.

 

[barbarosa]

Congratulate to western their culture and civilization.

 

[Adonis]

Pakistan was made for Islam. Islam does not permit its followers to participate in the religious festivals of others.



Pakistan was made for Islam. Islam does not permit its followers to participate in the religious festivals of others.

....Interesting...and still you are shamefully living in progressive, inclusive and modern society in Australia.

 

[Apprentice]

....Interesting...and still you are shamefully living in progressive, inclusive and modern society in Australia.

Yes I live here but I don't participate n religious festivals of others. Nor do I expect non-muslims to participate in our religious festivals and holidays.

 

[Dalit]

same is the case here mullah will die before celebrating holidays which belong to our minorities or west.what some of us want here is more tolerant and moderate Pakistan.

You are not tolerant and moderate. That is actually the problem.

Mullahs and liberals are different sides of the same coin.

I see it mostly as a religious problem, whether it is caused by the masses or a conservative regime that strangles the rest of the population. Islam especially is extremely resistant to theological change (think changes like the Social Gospel that Christianity experienced in the U.S.) and Western culture comes into conflict with some Islamic tradition.
The fact that Abu Zayd was forcibly divorced from his wife and then exiled from Egypt because he claimed the Quran wasn't handed to Muhammad in complete form, or compulsory donning of a burqa/niqab is something that is totally at odds with western philosophy; this doesn't apply directly to Pakistan, but the roots are there and it is pretty easy to see why Islamic nations have a harder time accepting aspects of western culture, given how radically different near east and west have developed over the last 120 years.

Look, no one has to accept anything from anyone. You cannot impose your norms and values onto others. We can say the same for others. It is simple really. When you say that Islamic nations have a harder time accepting the Western culture you ough to deal with that fact.

Westerners living abroad also never adopt Islamic norms and values. They drink and party in their private quarters. Feel free to do that, but don't accept others to accept your norms and values.

Your norms and values have nothing to do with your development. The West has been more serious and hardworking in achieving prosperity whereas the East has neglected these aspects. Plain and simple. These are two separate matters.