So the end result of COC or pakpositivism or Indian research was ignore all Indians and i mean all not even the trolls. You guys are going for a blanket disengagement. How would this not lead to an echo chamber? by depending on Pakistanis with contrary view? are they even tolerated?
Why didn't you quote me while answering my post?
You are so on platform about speaking up for Indians, but you don't afford Pakistanis that right?
To answer your question, yes, this is the natural conclusion drawn from interactions with Indians of many members on PDF both in their personal lives and also on this forum.
the words used to describe them was the devil's advocate,
Please look up this word. It means something else then what you are implying.
liberal, patwari etc. so how is such intolerance going to not create an echo chamber? That is thye definition of an echo chamber. Intolerance towards the contrary and if such a blanket ban is the objective then why even make threads about India?
We have plenty of Pakistanis who take anti-Pakistan government or anti-Islamic positions on this forum. Some advocate accepting Israel, etc. N leaguer, MQM, PPP, and TLP supporters are also here. No one is advocating for silencing them.
Lets keep them to the academic study of the enemy. So basically you dont want to discuss any topic with India but would love to create a thread based on matters concerning India and then ignore Indians when they offer their view point on the matter. Why? because we can understand them better? Whenever India is mentioned, the usual response can be gauged by a few select sentences.
We have heard all points again and again and are sick of the blanket lies, fabrications, and delusions of Indians. Everything are the fault of Pakistanis and Muslims.
Patience has run out for us.
Look i know that trolls are a problem and i know most of your dams are either filled or broken completely but a blanket ignore is counterproductive especially to your study of India as an enemy. Complete disengagement only sends two messages. That you cannot counter their narrative unless left completely alone. That is not how narratives are countered. There is a reason some of the most staunch anti-Indian are against such disengagement. They understand, atleast that if you want to push a narrative, it will not be in an echo chamber.
You are free to pick roses with them, no issue.
you believe that mods are not doing their jobs right. They are ignoring the trolls, they dont answer the reports and they dont clean the threads and thus their failure prompts our response to ignore a community that has the most presence of trolls. If they are successful in their effort to moderate, which we have a consensus that they are, then why not engage and the moment somebody trolls report and ignore them.
It works in conjunction with not feeding them.
Isnt engagement relying on a mixture of reporting and ignoring alot better than blanket ignores. You guys have the ignore button, use that on anybody that trolls. I do the same thing. I dont answer anybody i dont want to or feel that a reply is useless. I put them on ignore if i feel their posts are rubbish and only engage where i feel a proper discussion can be held.
Looks its either one of the two.
Use both tactics.
and your question is indeed so. How would they interact with an Indian who talks to them on the road or on the bus or the streets or in the supermarket or in their workplace. Would they simply ignore them breaking every social norm in the book after all the good ones are just as bad, if not worse than the bad ones so how do we know that Indian on the street that is waving at us with smile isnt harboring 5th generation agenda?
We are only talking about PDF right now, and after having all threads derailed by such people, I am frankly very sick of this, look at your posts, who is liking them and who is posting abuse and ridicule here?
Don't fall into their hands. They love using Pakistanis against each other.
I told you before when you were being tagged to fight other Pakistanis to be careful as you are seen as an Indian ally which can be used against your own countrymen.
We in Pakistan are not in danger of Indians with their words because there are no Indians here.
You do not interact with them, and you do not understand their mindset.
Their propaganda needs to be countered. If it can not be countered then its not propaganda.
Feel free. Jeetey raho.
irst case is formation of your own narrative. You cant formulate a narrative being in a closed group without any voice of the contrary. It is essential for a narrative to be formed through discourse and the reason is that the narrative is not for the self. You made the narrative, you are believing in it, you dont need to tell it to yourself. Narrative is for the other to understand your position as principled and based on facts whether that fact is a fact is irrelevant. Now when that narrative is spoken, it will bring discourse. somebody will poke holes in it or rubbish it entirely and this is for the entire world and when they do that, it is in that moment the test of the narrative is placed. If you stay silent or ignore or turn your back and snicker with your closed group on them then you have failed. The narrative got destroyed. To the world it would seem that one poked holes and you retreated to sneering. The narrative will only survive if you enter into engagement and when they poke holes, you repair those holes through your arguments. I am gonna take example of some old posters like
@Indus Pakistan who actively entered into any discussion whenever the word Indus was mentioned. Why? because he knew that the 'Indus Nationalism' narrative must see so much engagement that it will become a concrete iron narrative. Its like forming a diamond. You have a coal and discord is the cutting machine and the more you cut, the most shapely the diamond will be and its worth all the more. So discourse is essential for narrative making.
How many Indians have you succeeded in convincing your point of view to? Have you gained anything positive in interactions with Indians on PDF? If so, please enlighten us. Has it made you a better Pakistani to keep answering the same tired repetitive insinuations again and again?
Lets take the second point then. countering the propaganda. No propaganda can be countered without discord. Its the same process as above but this time, you are the person that is raising the question. If you dont enter into engagement and poke holes into their narrative and then poke holes into their repair work aka their counter arguments with them in front of the world, then how will you break their narrative? If you silently sit and ignore then you have turned it into a fact and it will be paraded as such. This is why we have the concept of Answer and Counter argument in the United Nations. The Idea is that discourse will always bring out the truth of the matter. If a narrative has no truth then it will break apart and if it has truth then it will prevail through your arguments and evolve to become so much better.
We have plenty of sources on the internet, social media, and video websites to understand the Indian narrative. We don't need barking dogs to keep shouting their fascist slogans and disrespect of our culture, identity, and religion again and again.
If you like that kind of environment, join an Indian forum. You will have plenty of daggers pointed at you.
When ignoring Indians start then they will take down the contrary opinions inside Pakistan as well. Look at how the argument in defense of 'Banning Indians wont create an Echo chamber' is based on that Pakistan has internal enemies that it wont become an echo chamber and for that words like Devil's advocate, liberal, patwari, 5th column is employed. How is that any different to the words we use against Indians? They have already been marked as the next 'Other'.
Those are my words which you are taking and running away with. You did not research the meaning of a devil's advocate (please do so.)
If you want clarification, then ask me, instead of postulating things which I did not say.
You have nations from all over the world sill active on this forum. Missing out on Indian abuse and trolling will not hurt us much. Not feeding the hard or soft trolls is imperative to restore the utility of this forum.
For those who like to ruin your brain running after Indians and arguing the same points again and again. Feel free.
Anyhow this exercise wont succeed. Those that wish to engage in a good discussion will always engage.
No one wants to change you, do as you like.
