Pakistani Punjab and Former East punjab

[Kabira]

Cool, I did have a different ID but don't remember talking to you, you might be confusing me for somebody else. I'm a Jatt as well with ancestry in Lahore and from Maharaja Ranjit Singh's misl.

Are you sansi by any chance?

 

[ZenBird]

Sansi?

I'm a Bhinder and mom's side is Pannu. My ancestors were from Sukerchakia misl that Ranjit Singh belonged to.

Edit: Ranjit Singh himself wasn't a Sansi by caste. He was a Sandhawalia Jatt also called sansis as a nickname.

 

[Bharat Muslim]

Just a fyi, Sadiq Khan is from a Muhajir background and not Punjabi

Are you sure RAW has not edited the Wikipedia entry and changed the background information of Sadiq Khan? RAW has reasons to do it because RAW really wants to attract American investment to India on a massive scale and drive a wedge between US and Pakistan.

And since Sadiq Khan holds such an important position, perception about him matters in deciding American business decisions.

Who knows they may have even bribed Sadiq Khan to spout BS?

 

[Vishvamitra]

I tell you guy's this component is deadly. Even in trace amounts it wrecks the individual. High amounts of course are rampant in South India - less said the better. African's bring something to the genetic table - physical lean bodies but the South Indian has nothing redeaming about it. I have observed Pakistani Christians who display those features and I strongly suspect many are migrants from Deccan during British times. Their souls might be Christian but South India is writ on their faces.

Thanks god for the Radclife Line !


Ps. Are you Sikh?

Lucky bas*ards !

 

[Vishvamitra]

I had the same reaction but then people are going to get their underwear in a twist and start calling me Khalistani terrorist.

I personally want pu jab to be divided between Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus. Sikhs can get all North and West Punjab as khali stan and Hindus will get South and east Punjab as Hindu province.

 

[ZenBird]

I personally want pu jab to be divided between Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus. Sikhs can get all North and West Punjab as khali stan and Hindus will get South and east Punjab as Hindu province.

It doesn't make a difference to me. Sikhs are already a single nation under God. We have our own governing body. I don't have a problem with Punjabi Hindus or Muslims. A landlocked Khalistani state would be at the mercy of Pakistan and India and would need to develop nuclear weapons to survive which the world doesn't need. We are fine as is.

 

[RazaGujjar]

Interesting, how are they treated by Zamindars? Most servants and bhaiyyas are treated like crap in our Punjab which is one thing I don't like.



Nice, well met Majha brother. How do you feel about Mirpuris? My Pakistani friend from Lahore hates them with a passion and has the choicest abuses for them. He used to live in UK and said that a large population of them live there and are responsible for crimes and don't even spare Pakistani Punjabis.

In the last 30 years or so Punjab has seen a huge influx of pathans. These pathans now speak punjabi and have become shop owners and fruit/vegetable merchants.

 

[Bouncer]

in that video, i realized that current day Pakistan punjab use to dominate wrestling in punjab before partition, but current day east punjabis( indian punjab , haryana, himachal pradesh ,chandigarh) dominates sports relatively to pakistani punjabis in Professional wrestling,boxing,kabaddi and many more. from this forum i came to know that Punjabis are more prosperous than rest of pakistan, just like the current day indian states of former East Punjab.
So i just wanted to compare current day pakistani punjab and entire East punjab in every aspect , not just sports.
Personally , i believe that current day indian state of punjab is faring well in all aspects, to the extent that it can outmatch all the rest of punjabis, indian and pakistani included in soft power( HDI,songs, world recognition,)

Good thread dude. But you can't just make claims like Indian Punjab dominates Pakistani Punjab without providing proofs etc. This statement seems inaccurate.

Sports, films and all the "soft power" have to be seen in a national context. For example the Punjabi songs and dances in Bollywood rely on Bollywood's massive reach to be popular so it will be unfair to other Indians when you claim this "soft power" as solely belonging to Punjabis. Same goes for sports. And this point stands out more when you consider the fact that Punjabis in India make up less than what 5~6% (?) of the total population?

Furthermore, both Punjabs are not what they were in 1947. Both sides have seen an influx of ethnicities from other provinces. Comparing today with the past doesn't make any sense.

For Punjabis this is what Indian Punjab (eastern Punjab) increasingly seems to look like http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-now-a-land-of-Bihari-sardars/articleshow/2583135.cms

Interesting article. Perhaps this land has always been accommodating. Just like the Biharis settled in Easter Punjab adapted to Eastern Punjabi lifestyle, same thing happened to millions of Balochs, Kashmiris and Pashtuns in Pakistani Punjab. These groups adopted the language, cuisine and customs here. You can't tell apart second or third generation Pashtun family in Lahore from an 8th generation Lahori these days. Exceptions exist of course.

actually east punjabis built punjab, its literature,its forts, its culture...we were the ones who not only defeated the invaders from the west in punjab but also invaded their land and you guys got those land from british empire.

Dead wrong.

Entire Sikh empire was based out of Gujranwala and Lahore. The Ghakkars, Awans, Bhattis of Pothohar fought against the Afghans and Mughals. Raja Porus of Jehlum stood against Alexander at the battle ground of Mandi Baha ud Din. And if you want to go further back; I'd dare say that entire Hinduism has its roots in Taxila and Potohar plateau, arguably. These were our ancestors and they were from what is now called Pakistani Punjab.

So your claim that Eastern Punjab built Punjab as we know it is false.

 

[ZenBird]

Just like the Biharis settled in Easter Punjab adapted to Eastern Punjabi lifestyle,

Ha bhaiyyas haven't adopted anything, they live separately in ghettos and speak Hindi. They are treated with such contempt that they do not have a chance of settling down in Punjab and assimilating. For instance, nobody would rent a house to them, nobody would let their kid marry them - they are just seasonal labor who are working as second class citizens in Punjab.

These groups adopted the language, cuisine and customs here. You can't tell apart second or third generation Pashtun family in Lahore

Is this adopted language Urdu or Punjabi?

Indian Punjab has seen one of the worst insurgencies in Indian history, retired military people told me that Khalistanis used to make Kashmiri militants look docile in comparison. I'm biased as an American but I believe Indian Punjab is now settled in Canada lol

 

[Bouncer]

Ha bhaiyyas haven't adopted anything, they live separately in ghettos and speak Hindi. They are treated with such contempt that they do not have a chance of settling down in Punjab and assimilating. For instance, nobody would rent a house to them, nobody would let their kid marry them - they are just seasonal labor who are working as second class citizens in Punjab.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-now-a-land-of-Bihari-sardars/articleshow/2583135.cms

Is this adopted language Urdu or Punjabi?

Indian Punjab has seen one of the worst insurgencies in Indian history, retired military people told me that Khalistanis used to make Kashmiri militants look docile in comparison. I'm biased as an American but I believe Indian Punjab is now settled in Canada lol

Punjabi.

Sikh insurgency has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

 

[ZenBird]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-now-a-land-of-Bihari-sardars/articleshow/2583135.cms



Punjabi.

Sikh insurgency has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

It says 11% have converted to Sikhism.. First I doubt that number how do you count people with no address and no papers. Second it's a big minority of the labors. Third, they might be indistinguishable from Punjabis from the perspective of another bhaiyya reporter from Delhi but for a Punjabi their Punjabi is just Hindi with a Punjabi word thrown in here and there.

Sikh insurgency has everything to do with topic at hand. Before 1984 Punjab growth rate was 7-8% when rest of India was growing at 1-2%. After the militancy it has become a drug riddled state lagging behind several others.

 

[Bouncer]

It says 11% have converted to Sikhism.. First I doubt that number how do you count people with no address and no papers. Second it's a big minority of the labors. Third, they might be indistinguishable from Punjabis from the perspective of another bhaiyya reporter from Delhi but for a Punjabi their Punjabi is just Hindi with a Punjabi word thrown in here and there.

Sorry but I'll take TOI's word over you

Sikh insurgency has everything to do with topic at hand. Before 1984 Punjab growth rate was 7-8% when rest of India was growing at 1-2%. After the militancy it has become a drug riddled state lagging behind several others.

Off topic but meh ..

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-punjab-has-suffered-long-steady-decline

"Myth-2: Sikh terrorism caused Punjab’s decline. Sikh terrorism ended two decades ago, and Punjab’s decline has continued nevertheless. Today, many Indian states face Maoist insurrections, which sometimes are as threatening as Sikh militancy once was in Punjab. Yet this violence has not come in the way of India achieving its fastest growth in history. The most entrenched Maoist-held areas are in the state of Chhattisgarh, which has huge forests, relatively few roads, and limited administrative breadth. The Maoists control very large areas in the state. Yet Chhattisgarh has been, in the last decade, one of India’s fastest growing states, averaging 9.1% per year between 2002-03 and 2010-11. It is a major producer of steel, sponge iron and aluminum. No doubt it has the advantage of big mineral deposits, but Maoists have seriously disrupted this. The contrast between economic growth in Punjab and Chhattisgarh demonstrates that terrorism does not necessarily mean economic decline, and can co-exist with double-digit growth. Besides, almost two decades have passed since the end of terrorism in Punjab, so it is a poor excuse for the state’s continuing weak performance."

 

[ZenBird]

Sorry but I'll take TOI's word over you

End of discussion then lol

Myth-2: Sikh terrorism caused Punjab’s decline. Sikh terrorism ended two decades ago, and Punjab’s decline has continued nevertheless. Today, many Indian states face Maoist insurrections, which sometimes are as threatening as Sikh militancy once was in Punjab.

Logical fallacy. Uttrakhand was rock bottom so no way to go but up. Punjab was the most prosperous until militancy and has stagnated since. On mobile or would post source I have bookmarked.

 

[ZenBird]

@Bouncer This is a good article.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/punjab-s-economy-what-went-wrong/279303.html

By the 1980s, Punjab was in chaos, with enormous human, social and economic costs that are still being felt 30 years later. State-level politics no longer functioned in normal democratic channels for most of the decade.

When the national government began to liberalise the economy in 1991, Punjab's recent history meant that it was among the worst-placed of the richer states to benefit from this change. The removal of controls on industrial licensing did not create positive incentives to invest in the state.

Over a decade without a state-level elected government had created a situation where corruption and rent-seeking were prevalent throughout the layers of government. For example, a corruption free-for-all was one of the factors that held back attempts to create a software industry in Mohali, near Chandigarh.

 

[ghazi52]

Maharaja Ranjit Singh's eldest grandaughter Princess Bamba Kaur Sutherland- grave in Lahore

She married Pir Karim Baksh, after being widowed. First husband British principal Sutherland for King Edward college.

A translation of the Persian distich on her gravestone has been translated as:

The difference between royalty and servility vanishes
The moment the writing of destiny is encountered
If one opens the grave of a dead
None would be able to discern rich from poor

Princess Bamba after her return to Lahore. She was the God daughter of Queen Victoria.

Her mother Sofia was an Arabic speaking Abyssian slave girl in Cairo, whom her father Maharaja Duleep Singh married & took her to England.

I THINK SUCH HISTORICAL FACTS NEED TO BE HIGHLIGHTED TO INCREASE TOURISM, ESP. AMONG SIKHS AND PERHAPS BRITISH TOO.

She bequeathed her collection of paintings and art objects to Pir Karim Bakhsh Supra, who, after her death, sold these to the Government of Pakistan. The collection, consisting of 18 oil paintings, 14 water colours, 22 ivory paintings, 17 photographs, 10 metallic objects and seven miscellaneous articles, are known as ‘The Princess Bamba Collection’.