Pakistani Offensive into North Waziristan to begin after EID

[FaujHistorian]

Are you really Centcom??

Man! That's a weird question KM!

The poster is putting his name, rank, and current designation as signature. And you blink at him and ask silly questions. What's wrong with you? Do you really live in NY or just using false flags. You should know your army's ranks, designations, and their assignments.

Posting on PDF should have meant that we all know a teeeny weeny bit about our own militaries.

peace.

 

[FaujHistorian]

i am not in support of military operation at this perilous time,
it would be suicidal from my point of view,
we need to look for viable solutions that suits us , not america ....

My dear poster, it will ALWAYS be "suicidal" to go in the tribal den of lawlessness and terror.

This is what we have done in the last 65+ years. Stay away from there. Left the ordinary tribals as the hostage of drug smugglers, weapon bazaars, and kidnappers.

We imposed on them the draconian system called FCR. Why?

We the Pakistani educated elite thought little about these primitive tribals who do not deserve modern system of education, universities, courts, police, and a decent government.

No. Just leave them in the hands of corrupt political agents.

Heap these agents with Pakistani taxpayers' money so they can get fat by the day, and rich by the night.

While ordinary FATAn suffered at the hands of extreme poverty, lack of education, poor health services, abysmal sanitation, and utter absence of plentiful clean water.

65 long years and we did NOTHING.

Why because we thought tribals are happy, political agent is happy, so let them live in the cesspools of poverty called tribal agencies. Why do we care. British lived with those agencies. Why can't we?

Oh no brother, Britishers were foreign occupiers and one day they were going to go. They were OK with spending few dacades with such draconian system called FCR.

But why did we continue to use it?

Why did we rule FATA like a foreign occupier? Because we were too lazy, or perhaps too uncouth.

We must repeal FCR immediately. Given the tribals their own but MODERN government.

Make the FATA into a province with proper assembly, high court, and local courts.

Let them develop their water and sanitation system and move their society into 21st century.


Sending in military and killing few Taliboobs will not be sufficient. It is just a first step that must follow with change and modernization of their political and self government.


peace.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

DAWN

As with previous attacks, the possibility of insider help to the militants in the assault on Kamra is also very high. From sympathisers of radical Islamist thought to direct supporters of militant groups, the army appears to have a militancy problem, the severity of which is hidden from the public because investigations and court martials are often carried out in secret. The wider concern going forward ought to have the army’s screening procedures: how robust and effective is the surveillance and vetting of the armed forces’ personnel to prevent an incident before it happens? Clearly, as recent history suggests, not robust or effective enough — but what will it take for a more serious and sustained effort?

Finally, the question that has bedevilled the fight against militancy: when will the state, both the army and the political government, drive home the message to the Pakistani public that the war is real, it is against a radicalised fringe of Pakistan and that unless the war is fought withtotal commitment and purpose, the state and society itself will spiral towards irreversible disaster Gen Kayani’s Independence Day message contained the first strands of that message but it has to be sustained and spread to the farthest corners of the country. The ones shouting ‘this isn’t our war’ — many on the political right — need to be countered, firmly and uneq-uivocally. Delay that battle any longer and the already manifold complications will grow yet more complicated.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/202635-attack-paf-base-minhas-122.html#ixzz23mdNYsPx

 

[TalibanSwatter]

The radicalised fringe the DAWN editorial talks about is infact the underlying ideology and worldview promoted by the TTP and its supporters. The doctrine is basically a set of Salafi tenets imported from the Salafi/Wahabi clergy in Saudi - a regressive tribal doctrine masquerading as religion that was put on steroids over the last two decades thanks to saudi-petro dollars, the proxy war betwwen Saudi and Iran, and the Afghan war.

Pakistani intelligence and US govt. has admitted on several occasions that at least a third of the funding for the TTP(a blend of punjabi taliban, LeJ and KP militants)comes from the Saudi Salafi network in the Gulf with ideological support.

The TTP land grab in Swat in 2009 was an attempt to setup a Salafi-run fiefdom in the region. Militant activities such as blowing up shrines, girl's schools, targeting and killing Shias, are all avowed objectives of Salafi/Wahabi jihadists around the world. And of course they despise the democratic form of governance and consider it "unislamic" - which is why the TTP recently rubbished Imran Khan's proposed peace march.

Clearly, the TTP is the flagbearer of the Salafi network in Pakistan. It is like a rabid dog that needs to be put to sleep. There is no room for negotiation.

Of course, TTP has supporters in the political domain, especially Jamaat Islami - a party who actually has been known to shelter Al Qaeda militants in the past, as well as providing medical supplies to TTP militants during the Swat offensive under the guise of Al Khidmat trust.

While it is time to dismantle the TTP hub in NWA, we also need to tighten the screws on their sympathizers in JI as well as fringe elements in the military. The attacks on Mehran Base, GHQ and to a lesser degree in Kamra could not have taken place without insider information.

Gen Kayani's recent address is appreciated. That said, actions speak louder than words. GHQ needs to walk the talk. Time to bury its monster child - once and for all.

 

[iPhone]

Don't worry under the leadership of gutless and incompetent Kiyani no op will take place or at the most it'll be a half assed botched effort. He doesn't have it in him to walk on razor's edge and see it through to the end. The saying in Urdu is, inn tilon mein tail nehin hai.

This incompetent fool saw his soldiers get kidnapped, saw their severed heads and didnt do anything. Terrorists knock on his doors every now and then and this coward doesn't budge. His so called friends, Grn. Mullen make fun of him and the incompetent fool can't even talk back. And you expect him to start a fight? This man has ran away from fights all his life.

 

[OrionHunter]

Called Operation Tight Screw

Good! Screw them real tight!!

 

[nwmalik]

Has to be done.
Should have been done long ago.
The problem will not go away by shutting our eyes.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

DAWN

ISLAMABAD: Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani and Commander of US Central Command Gen James Mattis would continue consultations on an operation against the Haqqani network even though the visiting American General had to leave without a firm date.

Gen Mattis, who had arrived on Thursday evening, held talks with Gen Kayani and Defence Secretary Gen Asif Yasin Malik late on Thursday night. He departed on Friday morning.

Gen Mattis had arrived for the meetings on the day when an attack by heavily armed militants on a key PAF base in Kamra was foiled by Pakistani security forces.

As anticipated the discussions were predominantly about the North Waziristan operation. While the Pakistani side avoided any reference to the Haqqani network in its post-meeting statement, the US embassy’s media note clearly stated that the talks covered ‘militant network activities’ in addition to cross-border cooperation.

The US side declared the talks as ‘successful’ and said the generals “had agreed to continue to meet periodically to further common objectives on cross-border cooperation and regional security”.

There was also a hint from the Pakistani side that the talks had ended on a positive note. “Both sides expressed satisfaction over the level of cooperation between the two militaries and resolved to continue it to further improve relations between the two countries,” military’s public affairs wing, ISPR, said.

According to a western source privy to the discussion, Gen Kayani tried to convey the impression that atmosphere for launching an operation in Waziristan wasn’t yet conducive.

The source believed that he was facing pressure both from political opposition parties and some of his aides who were opposed to initiating ‘kinetic operations’ in the militant hotbed.

The source said Gen Mattis was appreciative of the strong stance taken by Gen Kayani against extremism and terrorism in his Independence Day anniversary speech at the military academy in Kakul.

Gen Kayani was quoted by ISPR as having told Gen Mattis that the timing of the military operation would be determined by “our political and military” considerations.

But at the same time the army chief noted that “we might, if necessary, undertake operations in NWA”.

In a statement directed towards the local audience, Gen Kayani said the operation “will never be a result of any outside pressure. Pakistan’s national interest continues to be the prime consideration for any decision in this regard”.

It was evident from Gen Kayani’s remarks released by ISPR that he did not deny planning an offensive in North Waziristan.

Rather, he focused on dispelling the impression generated from reports in the western media, based on leaks, that he had reached an understanding with Isaf Commander Gen John Allen over joint operations in North Waziristan.

The ISPR went to the extent of defining and differentiating between ‘a joint operation’ and ‘coordinated action’ in the statement.

 

[Chanda Khan]

TTP is being mentored, funded, guided and supported by our neighbours on eastern and western fronts (a bitter reality; anti thesis to CBMs and Aman ki Aasha) to create chaos in the country, to unleash their vengeance and entangle a major chunk of Pakistan Army in FATA. Who benefits from the major re-deployment of Pakistan Army from eastern to western fronts? Who benefits from attacks of TTP on P3C Orion aircrafts and AWACS? Questions are left to the sweet judgment of the readers.
These terrorists; the bed fellows of our allies / eastern neighbours will make all possible efforts to weaken Pakistan on economic and security fronts. The country that has suffered the most in the world due to this war is only and only Pakistan and still is considered and believed (courtesy to the Western and Indian media) that it has done nothing in war against terrorism. The whole nation is passing through a psychological trauma because of this war.

Why it is so that North Waziristan Agency has gained attention of international media over the years? Why it has become a dreaded dream of Panetta and others alike him in US policy circles? Why it is so that the war against militancy in which Pakistan remained engaged with all immeasurable back blows to the state and society has not gained much of appreciation by the US/West?
The answers to these questions may require some kind of debate to ponder over the real intentions and designs of US which she harbors against Pakistan.

In first scenario, US would like to keep the mantra of operation in NWA as a pressure tactic to force Pakistan to serve its interest in the region and extract maximum support from it for war in Afghanistan. Consequently, if Pakistan succumbs to US pressure and launches an operation in NWA then the pressure leverage which US is exploiting will be over. So, in reality, believe it or not, US would never like this operation to actually take place as they will then have to search another tool to pressurize Pakistan.

In another scenario, US would definitely like that Pakistan Army should undertake this operation so as to bury his failures and blunders of war in Afghanistan; a scapegoat analogy viz-a-viz Pakistan. TTP will continue to be supported by US and India which will make all out efforts to ensure that Pakistan Army does not succeed in this battle so as to discredit it on domestic front (being a viable institution and pride of nation) and undermine its professional capabilities, capacities and will to fight at international level. So, US will make another case against Pakistan for its inabilities of rooting out terrorist basis on its soil which will be followed by unfolding of sinister designs by US.

Our friends across the eastern borders must also realize that if they are creating troubles for Pakistan just to satisfy their ill-conceived ego which they developed and still harbour appallingly since 1947; then this onslaught of Talibanization may not apply breaks at Wagah Border and will take both the countries along with it into the seas of savagery and barbarism.

So, Dear Pakistan; be careful.

 

[airmarshal]

DAWN

As with previous attacks, the possibility of insider help to the militants in the assault on Kamra is also very high. From sympathisers of radical Islamist thought to direct supporters of militant groups, the army appears to have a militancy problem, the severity of which is hidden from the public because investigations and court martials are often carried out in secret. The wider concern going forward ought to have the army’s screening procedures: how robust and effective is the surveillance and vetting of the armed forces’ personnel to prevent an incident before it happens? Clearly, as recent history suggests, not robust or effective enough — but what will it take for a more serious and sustained effort?

Finally, the question that has bedevilled the fight against militancy: when will the state, both the army and the political government, drive home the message to the Pakistani public that the war is real, it is against a radicalised fringe of Pakistan and that unless the war is fought withtotal commitment and purpose, the state and society itself will spiral towards irreversible disaster Gen Kayani’s Independence Day message contained the first strands of that message but it has to be sustained and spread to the farthest corners of the country. The ones shouting ‘this isn’t our war’ — many on the political right — need to be countered, firmly and uneq-uivocally. Delay that battle any longer and the already manifold complications will grow yet more complicated.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/202635-attack-paf-base-minhas-122.html#ixzz23mdNYsPx

the reason for all this confusion is we dont have public debate, just insidious and shady dealing with US. That creates the sentiment that that the govt. or even army doing deals which are harmful to the state of Pakistan.

This confusion arises because of total lack of communication from the govt. Say that 'this is our war' isn't enough. Pakistanis must be convinced why it is our war.

You should be totally against this war or totally against it. I m against it as I follow Imran Khan's logic on this which is very clear.
Now there should be reason why this is our war and it should be equally clear. Right now, the 'our war' argument is very weak. It soes not state the reasons, just the rhetoric 'this is our war' isn't enough. The 'our war' camp states the 'sacrifices' Pakistan has given. A very strong argument comes to the fore from 'against war' camp stating that those 'sacrifices' were not needed as Pakistan could have chosen to stay out of this war.

A proper public discourse is needed to quell the reservations and confusion. But do you expect that from the govt. of Mr. Zardari? You better be crazy!

 

[TalibanSwatter]

the reason for all this confusion is we dont have public debate, just insidious and shady dealing with US. That creates the sentiment that that the govt. or even army doing deals which are harmful to the state of Pakistan.

This confusion arises because of total lack of communication from the govt. Say that 'this is our war' isn't enough. Pakistanis must be convinced why it is our war.

You should be totally against this war or totally against it. I m against it as I follow Imran Khan's logic on this which is very clear.
Now there should be reason why this is our war and it should be equally clear. Right now, the 'our war' argument is very weak. It soes not state the reasons, just the rhetoric 'this is our war' isn't enough. The 'our war' camp states the 'sacrifices' Pakistan has given. A very strong argument comes to the fore from 'against war' camp stating that those 'sacrifices' were not needed as Pakistan could have chosen to stay out of this war.

A proper public discourse is needed to quell the reservations and confusion. But do you expect that from the govt. of Mr. Zardari? You better be crazy!

We don't need Zardari to tell us why this is our war. Kayani pretty much said it in his address at Kakul. As far as Imran Khan is concerned, his understanding of the TTP, militancy or the ideology driving it is that of a 10 year old.

THE NEWS

Tsunamis are known for the height of their waves, and Pakistan Tehreek e Insaaf (PTI)’s tsunami would probably register its tallest wave yet if it hits the mountains of Waziristan next month. Organising a jalsa inside the Taliban stronghold of Waziristan would be no small achievement, given the Taliban disapproval of electoral politics and their habit of expressing disapproval through violence.

One would expect the Tehreek i Taliban Pakistan (TTP) to have a soft corner for the PTI, given that the PTI has always opposed any military action against the TTP. The PTI believes Talibanisation in Pakistan to be a direct consequence of Pakistan’s support for the US-led war on terror (WoT). While it condemns Taliban attacks within Pakistan, it regards them as a response to the WoT. To quote party Chairman Imran Khan, terrorism as epitomised by the Taliban is “a reaction to drone strikes and military operations; suicide bombings are a tool of the weak used to attack oppressors”.

But surprisingly in this case, the “weak” consider Imran Khan to be part of the “oppressors” as well. Back in 2011 TTP’s spokesperson Ehsanullah Ehsan declared Imran Khan a “ghulam” (slave) of the West. More recently the TTP has upped the ante by declaring Khan, an “infidel” because of the latter’s audacity to call himself a “liberal”. Presently, the TTP is deliberating upon whether to allow the Khan tsunami into Waziristan, but, if one is to go by the TTP’s track record in dealing with infidels, then he could be as legitimate a target as were many others who were killed for the crimes of being liberal, infidel etc.

These recent events have highlighted some very interesting anomalies in the PTI’s stance vis a vis the TTP. To begin with, it lays bare the naiveté in PTI’s overly simplistic analysis of the Taliban threat. For almost a decade now Imran Khan has been citing Pakistan’s support for the WoT as the main reason behind the Taliban phenomenon. With his anti drone dharnas he represents that counterfactual policy position, which he thinks is the only solution to the Taliban problem. But despite his anti WoT rhetoric the Taliban have labelled him a “slave of the West” (ironically the same epitaph that Khan often bestows upon President Zardari). It should be obvious that there is much more on the Taliban’s agenda, than the mere departure of US troops from Afghanistan.

But even more interesting is Imran Khan’s response to the TTP, which is eerily similar to that of the ANP leadership when they are faced with such threats. While there is nothing wrong in invoking the name of Allah and putting on a fearless posture, for Imran Khan this is a contradiction of his belief to reject any notion of confrontation with the Taliban. He has always proposed negotiations with the TTP to avoid unnecessary deaths and had recently even offered his own services as a mediator between the government and the Taliban.

Surprisingly with the lives of his own party workers at stake, he seems in no mood to negotiate with the Taliban, who have declared his belief in democracy to be un-Islamic and thus the main source of contention. One would expect the PTI to explain its vision of an “Islamic Welfare State” to the TTP and address this grievance of theirs, but so far there has been no indication of that.

So instead of negotiating a safe entry, the PTI would be relying on its Waziristan chapter for the security of the tsunami. Imran Khan believes that “every man in the tribal area is a warrior, and carries a gun”, a belief that stands challenged by the thousands of IDPs from Waziristan who were reluctant to go back home because of threats from the TTP. But nevertheless, even if one believes this romanticised notion, then by galvanising this heavily armed “peace caravan” the PTI is in fact planning to raise an armed lashkar to counter potential threats from the TTP.

This might be the first time that the chairman of the PTI is differentiating between the Taliban and the people of Fata, but during the last ten years, several such lashkars of “infidels” have been formed to resist the Taliban. However, doing so has come at very high costs, as the massacre of more than 200 tribal elders across Fata stands testament to the fate of those who have dared to defy the TTP.

While Imran Khan has clearly stated that he has no desire to get himself or anyone else injured or killed, barging into the TTP controlled areas at the head of an armed procession is certainly not the way to ensure that. Interestingly, Imran Khan’s ex wife Jemima Khan has announced the cancellation of her plans through her Twitter account, she took this decision after the chairman of PTI told her that going to Waziristan would be “too dangerous”, a fear that he has certainly not shared with the rest of the 100,000 expected at the event.

With parties such as the ANP restricting their political activities under threat from the Taliban, the chairman of the PTI should also reconsider his decision as the cost of it could be measured in terms of human lives.

The time has come for the rank and file of the PTI to demand a clear party position on the Taliban. If Taliban violence will continue to be directed at the vote registering “infidels” of Pakistan even after the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, then this present war against the Taliban is definitely our war. A war that would become increasingly difficult to fight once the TTP is free of US pressure and Pakistan is devoid of military aid. If it is our war then let’s fight it as we are supposed to, rather than shy away from it by clinging on to ridiculous theories.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/202813-not-our-war-still-2.html#ixzz24OUPXDdz

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Express Tribune

Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has finally said what the world had been waiting to hear for quite some time now. Speaking at the Azadi Parade at the Pakistan Military Academy over a week ago, he said that militants were a threat to Pakistan and that the army and the nation needed to fight them under a united banner. Yet, he still fell short of calling them Taliban.

Since that speech, there have been conflicting statements and reports — from Washington and Islamabad — on the scope of the planned operation against militants, specifically in North Waziristan. A joint operation has been ruled out by Pakistan and in any case America will not want to get entangled in another area. A coordinated operation and what it would entail has not been explained by either America or Pakistan. Yet, the operation is imminent now. Additional troops have been moved to the area. The army is claiming that a final decision will be taken by the government and if not withdrawn, governor Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa’s order of 2009 should still be effective and can be used to start the operation.

If a targeted operation means going after specific targets, it will require excellent intelligence, which is lacking at the moment. The Pakistan army also does not have the luxury of drones, gunships and the use of the air force could result in extensive collateral damage. This means that for raids on specific targets, ground troops will have to be deployed. Use of ground forces will result in fighting in the built-up area, which is dreaded by armies due to heavy losses suffered by troops in such situations. Due to limited night-flying capabilities, night raids as carried out in Afghanistan are also not possible. Furthermore, villagers fear the Taliban, so they will not provide help and intelligence to the military. A targeted operation will be a slow and prolonged campaign and will not bring about a quick solution.

A possible option could to be to emulate the strategy employed in Swat and South Waziristan, of vacating the whole area and treating any person found after a deadline as enemy. Swat was a success primarily because of factors not relevant in the North Waziristan case. Both Swat and South Waziristan (the Mehsud area) had no access to Afghanistan. Historically, Swat was a peaceful area and militancy was not in the blood of the Swatis. Falling unknowingly into trap of the Taliban, they were quick to vacate the area, became IDPs and within three months went back to their homes. The IDPs of South Waziristan are still reluctant to go back and remain in camps in Dera Ismail Khan and Tank. Though much smaller than South Waziristan, North Waziristan cannot be vacated. With porous borders, militants will prefer crossing the border. And that is where a coordinated effort will be needed. But ISAF’s ability to deploy sufficient troops on the Afghan side of the border is in doubt.

Yet another option is to keep the operation localised. Instead of a major offensive, the agency can be cleared piecemeal. For example, a possible area can be from Bannu till Mir Ali, securing the Mir Ali-Thal road and including the right bank of the Tochi River. However, chances are that militants will not let it remain a localised operation and will try and spread it. Lacking the capability to fight pitched battles, their decentralised command system gives them the advantage of being able to take the initiative and employ hit-and-run tactics.

Whatever option is adopted, it is going to be a prolonged operation and various factors will affect the outcome. Even if it is to target the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), the reaction of Hafiz Gul Bahadur and Maulvi Nazir of South Waziristan will play an important role. They are most likely to jump into the conflict. Also, a question remains as to why the US is interested in an operation against only the TTP. At the very least, the American perception that the situation in Afghanistan is bad because of North Waziristan will be proved wrong.

 

[Hashshāshīn]

When is the operation beginning? Or has it begun already?

 

[Tangent]

When is the operation beginning? Or has it begun already?

..no REAL operation....there would be some 'lip services' by pak army to please Americans. You will read that jets have dropped bombs and 'killed' some TTPs, every alternate day.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

---

..no REAL operation....there would be some 'lip services' by pak army to please Americans. You will read that jets have dropped bombs and 'killed' some TTPs, every alternate day.

Lets wait and see...TTP would not beating its chest and showing bravado without there being a genuine threat of military action.