Pakistani Navy going through a serious buildup

[FuturePAF]

PN Aviation's Torpedo of choice is the Mk46:

Pakistan Navy Official Website

www.paknavy.gov.pk

MK-46 Torpedo

www.navysite.de

Mark 46 | Royal Australian Navy

Royal Australian Navy

www.navy.gov.au

Here's How the U.S. Navy Launches Anti-Submarine Torpedoes

The torpedoes are designed to home in on enemy submarines.

www.popularmechanics.com

Launched from a P3C:
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Inside a P3C's bombs bay:
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Loading Mk46 on a US Navy Ship:
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Masoomana Sawal:
Has the Mk46 been upgraded to Mk54?
Easily Upgradeable From MK 46

I was hoping they could get the Black Shark Advanced Torpedo from Italy, especially after maybe India dropped for its Scorpene Submarines in favor of the F21 French Torpedos. Also, I hope Pakistan buys the new Turkish 533mm heavy weight torpedo. These two advanced Torpedos should pose a considerable challenge to the Indians.

The Mk.46 is short legged. What I was hoping with the Be-200, was landing on the water, firing 3-4 advanced heavy weight wire guided Torpedos from Torpedo tubes built into the hull or from an internal weapons bay towards a target, and then fly away when the mission is done. 3-4 Torpedos at about 1500-2000 kg each is the cargo capacity of the Be-200 (7500 kg), and between 3-4 Torpedos the probability of scoring a hit could be high.

 

[StormBreaker]

I won’t be happy unless we order 4 more frigates and get destroyers as well.

- Zarvan

 

[Blacklight]

I was hoping they could get the Black Shark Advanced Torpedo from Italy, especially after maybe India dropped for its Scorpene Submarines in favor of the F21 French Torpedos. Also, I hope Pakistan buys the new Turkish 533mm heavy weight torpedo. These two advanced Torpedos should pose a considerable challenge to the Indians.

The Mk.46 is short legged. What I was hoping with the Be-200, was landing on the water, firing 3-4 advanced heavy weight wire guided Torpedos from Torpedo tubes built into the hull or from an internal weapons bay towards a target, and then fly away when the mission is done. 3-4 Torpedos at about 1500-2000 kg each is the cargo capacity of the Be-200 (7500 kg), and between 3-4 Torpedos the probability of scoring a hit could be high.

What we do have is not bad either.

ATLAS ELEKTRONIK sets new range record for Torpedoes, reaching more than 140 Km

ATLAS ELEKTRONIK has increased the reach of its torpedoes substantially, setting a new range record for torpedoes. At a test-firing in March 2012, the heavyweight torpedo SeaHake® mod4 ER (Extended Range) achieved a range of over 140 kilometers.

www.navyrecognition.com

 

[Akh1112]

Navy modernization is peanuts as compared to changing global dynamics.

lucky we're not fighting the globe then.

 

[Blacklight]

I won’t be happy unless we order 4 more frigates and get destroyers as well.

- Zarvan

Can you tell me more about the real Storm Breaker?

 

[Akh1112]

The P-3C is indeed a very decent and capable aircraft. In my humble opinion, I wonder why Pakistan takes a big gamble by doing something nobody did before, turning a relatively rare passenger aircraft (the Lineage 1000) into a maritime patrol aircraft. They could have bought either more second hand Orions, or do a maritime patrol upgrade on, say the A319 or A320. A lot of them are available due to the Covid crisis, and also later on, spares will never be a problem. I think the Lineage 1000 is a big gamble.

Airbus refuses to sell us offensive tools. They turned down a A310MRTT buy. Also the PN has very specific requirements for the platform of which there was only really 2/3 aircraft that met them. The PN had even been open to the idea of buying P8's.

 

[Abid123]

Need independent Air arm as well for Maritime ops and strike

We already have a "independent Air arm". The thing is that it has no fighter jets. 2 squadrons (24 fighter jets) would be a good number.

Pakistan Naval Air Arm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We will see all these assets coming in next 5-8 years starting from this year-Insha Allah

Insh Allah

 

[Tornado23]

We already have a "independent Air arm". The thing is that it has no fighter jets. 2 squadrons (24 fighter jets) would be a good number.

Pakistan Naval Air Arm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Insh Allah

I thought it had a squadron of mirages and a squadron of jf17?

 

[Abid123]

it comes to major surface fleet of 18-20
subs 11
MP, ASW and UAV around 20-24

with such an expansion, i do expect a couple of Destroyers/cruisers may in the next phase around 2030 onwards.

do we not need a dedicated fighter squadron or two of her own?

The major surface fleet will be 20. "To eliminate this constraint, the PN will move towards a fleet of over 50 ships, of which 20 will be “major surface ships". I dont know about destroyers/cruisers. They are very expensive to buy let alone maintain. Pakistan would be better of buying frigates/submarines. In my opinion a frigate equipped with hypersonic missiles is just as good as a destroyer.

Well regarding if we need a dedicated fighter squadron.... It depends on how you look at it. There are lots of countries that have a much much bigger coastline to defend that dont have fighter jets in their "naval air arm". But these countries dont have a enemy the size of India next door. A country with a blue water navy.

So a dedicated fighter squadron or two as you said will in my opinion only be positive. 2 squadron (24 fighter jets) would be enough. The problem would be which jet the PN would like. Heavy twin engine fighter, medium fighter or light fighter? You have twin engine fighters like SU-35, MIG-35, J-11, J-15, J-16 or single engine fighters like JF-17 OR J-10CE.

For me 24 SU-35 for around 2 billion USD would be the best option. You can also easily replace them because 24 fightes are not a lot.

Outgoing Pakistan Navy Chief Sets Massive 50-Ship Fleet Vision

Pakistan’s outgoing Chief of Naval Staff revealed that the service is working to build a fleet of 50 ships, of which 20 would be ‘major surface vessels.’

quwa.org

Need proper investment in the second strike capability, to make it equivalent to what the first strike can do.

True. Pakistan navy should have two SSBN's. One of them should always be on patrol.

Does Pakistan posses anykind of amphibious assault capability?

I dont think so....

 

[Abid123]

We need an assured 2nd strike capability, not just against India but for future threats emerging that are far from our borders.
The world is reshaping fast and we need to be prepared, with the new cold war brewing and yesterdays friends becoming todays enemies, a nuclear deterrent cannot be complete without an assured 2nd strike capability.

We absolutely need a 2nd strike capability. For that we must have SSBN'S. SSBN can be said to be the most lethal weapon system created in the history of mankind. We should be able to strike anywhere on the planet with a nuclear strike. I know that some people are going to disagree with me. But remember: Expect the best, prepare for the worst.

The best and cheapest option if we can is to buy two SSBN's from China. You have the Jin class submarine also known as "Type 094". The "Type 094" can carry 12 JL-2s. "is a Chinese second-generation intercontinental-range submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM)". The JL-2 has a maximum range of 7200 km. It is MIRV capable. It also has a single megaton blast yield. Can have smaller blast yield in MIRV. The unit cost is 750 million USD. So two Type 094's should cost Pakistan 1.5 bilion USD. Maybe little higher.

Here is a picture of the JL-2's range if fired close from Pakistan's coast. It is launched between Pasni and Ormara.

b

Another option not available right now would be the "Type 096". The "Type 096 would be China's equilavent to Americas "Ohio-class submarine". The Type 096 would be able to carry 24 JL-3 SLBM. Not only will it carry twice the amount of ICBM's, but the range of JL-3 will be far longer. According to most sources the JL-3 will have a maximum range of 12000 km. Two Type 096 will in total carry 48 JL-3 ICBM's. Twice that of two type 094 with also far longer range as mentioned earlier. Two Type 096 equipped with JL-3 would be far better for PN rather than 2 Type 094 with JL-2. China is part of the MTCR so it cant export missiles beyond the range of 300 km. But I am sure Pakistan and China can find a "way".

Here you can see the range of the JL-3. Also launched between Pasni and Ormara.

 

[Scorpiooo]

I thought it had a squadron of mirages and a squadron of jf17?

No JFT, only mirages under PAF control dedicated for naval role

 

[Gripen9]

No JFT, only mirages under PAF control dedicated for naval role

The last tranche of mirages bought new from France (1978-79) which I believe were VPA3 config; having Agave radar & Exocet missiles were bought out of PN budget. They equipped No 8 sqn of PAF. They were never under PN command but their primary role was maritime strike and always based at Masroor. Currently the primary maritime strike sqn in No 2 with JF17/C802 missiles. No 8 sqn is no longer equipped with Exocets. They only carry REK bombs and will moat probably be the first mirage sqn to transition either to J10 or JF17s.

 

[Ghessan]

The major surface fleet will be 20. "To eliminate this constraint, the PN will move towards a fleet of over 50 ships, of which 20 will be “major surface ships". I dont know about destroyers/cruisers. They are very expensive to buy let alone maintain. Pakistan would be better of buying frigates/submarines. In my opinion a frigate equipped with hypersonic missiles is just as good as a destroyer.

Well regarding if we need a dedicated fighter squadron.... It depends on how you look at it. There are lots of countries that have a much much bigger coastline to defend that dont have fighter jets in their "naval air arm". But these countries dont have a enemy the size of India next door. A country with a blue water navy.

So a dedicated fighter squadron or two as you said will in my opinion only be positive. 2 squadron (24 fighter jets) would be enough. The problem would be which jet the PN would like. Heavy twin engine fighter, medium fighter or light fighter? You have twin engine fighters like SU-35, MIG-35, J-11, J-15, J-16 or single engine fighters like JF-17 OR J-10CE.

For me 24 SU-35 for around 2 billion USD would be the best option. You can also easily replace them because 24 fightes are not a lot.

Outgoing Pakistan Navy Chief Sets Massive 50-Ship Fleet Vision

Pakistan’s outgoing Chief of Naval Staff revealed that the service is working to build a fleet of 50 ships, of which 20 would be ‘major surface vessels.’

quwa.org

True. Pakistan navy should have two SSBN's. One of them should always be on patrol.

I dont think so....

as i said and everybody knows what PN plans are with those 20 major ships and 20 major ships does not work alone. there will be three flotilla with comprehensive power punch with AA/AD.

PN has plans of expansion and that is due to the role it is going to play in the region with many factors and challenges ahead. believe me there will have no shortage of funds when it comes to acquiring destroyer.
only the matter is when it is time to induct, they will be.

how did we plan frigates from Turkey and Frigates/subs from China?
i give you an example: we are inducting Al-Khalid and we induct VT4, you will witness VT4 induction quick and timely. Al-Khalid need budget allocation every year, funding problem does not arise when you induct off the shelf, financing facility is provided to you by third party which is paid back in years even with a considerable grace period.

and no there is no such thing as coastal area big or small to do with having a squadron or two of its own. it is a strategic matter and as you mentioned neighbor in east, we need to expand leg into the sea with an air arm desperately. just see the consequences of having a dedicated attack squadron with navy suddenly and Mumbai will feel the shivers in the spine. SU35 will not be inducted.

 

[Titanium100]

I won’t be happy unless we order 4 more frigates and get destroyers as well.

- Zarvan

I like this kind of mentality you ordered everything there is but want even more... Give this man a rank in Pk because he just wants more and more that is what we need here

 

[White and Green with M/S]

We absolutely need a 2nd strike capability. For that we must have SSBN'S. SSBN can be said to be the most lethal weapon system created in the history of mankind. We should be able to strike anywhere on the planet with a nuclear strike. I know that some people are going to disagree with me. But remember: Expect the best, prepare for the worst.

The best and cheapest option if we can is to buy two SSBN's from China. You have the Jin class submarine also known as "Type 094". The "Type 094" can carry 12 JL-2s. "is a Chinese second-generation intercontinental-range submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM)". The JL-2 has a maximum range of 7200 km. It is MIRV capable. It also has a single megaton blast yield. Can have smaller blast yield in MIRV. The unit cost is 750 million USD. So two Type 094's should cost Pakistan 1.5 bilion USD. Maybe little higher.

Here is a picture of the JL-2's range if fired close from Pakistan's coast. It is launched between Pasni and Ormara.

View attachment 751958b

Another option not available right now would be the "Type 096". The "Type 096 would be China's equilavent to Americas "Ohio-class submarine". The Type 096 would be able to carry 24 JL-3 SLBM. Not only will it carry twice the amount of ICBM's, but the range of JL-3 will be far longer. According to most sources the JL-3 will have a maximum range of 12000 km. Two Type 096 will in total carry 48 JL-3 ICBM's. Twice that of two type 094 with also far longer range as mentioned earlier. Two Type 096 equipped with JL-3 would be far better for PN rather than 2 Type 094 with JL-2. China is part of the MTCR so it cant export missiles beyond the range of 300 km. But I am sure Pakistan and China can find a "way".

Here you can see the range of the JL-3. Also launched between Pasni and Ormara.

View attachment 751963

Look brother every military tech that China have is not available for Pakistan is wrong concept of most of Pakistani people on PDF, Jin or Type-94 is their strategic weapon, how can they give it to Pakistan their most lethal weapon to Pakistan, first we have to gain experience of Nuke subs, its is better that we will gain it through SSN such as Han class instead of directly go for SSBN just like India did to gain experience through Russian/Soviet sole Akula class (INS Chackara) and also JL-3 is also useless for Pakistan, our enemy is in our next door or may be we like to target Israel we don't need ICBM on SSBN but MRBM or at best IRBM,

So getting a Jin/ Type 94 class SSBN from China has a 0% Chance for Pakistan