Pakistani Nationalists should study Chinese and Japanese governing systems

[EternalMortal]

No point in copying China or USA or UK or Japan or whoever. Study them sure but actually figure out what they're doing that is successful & what they're doing that isn't.
For e.g. study the strengths & weaknesses of one-party vs 2-party vs multi-party systems. Usually where one system has a strength the other system has a weakness. So what you need to do then is craft a system that can combine as much of their strengths as possible.

I'll give you one example.

One-party strength is that they get work done faster however their weakness is that there's also less public oversight. It's the opposite with 2 or multi-party systems. So what do you need to do to make your political system to both be faster but also have public oversight all the while ensuring the those making the decisions are competent?

Ans: Make councils staffed with experts or technocrats that can make policies & laws & have parliamentary oversight over them. How would this work? Lets take an economic council as an example

1) Elect a parliament that does not make the laws or policies itself. Political parties are banned. Elected officials speak for themselves & their own constituencies only. You've just eliminated the biggest incentive for mafias & thugs to want to come into power.

2) EC has reps from finance & planning divisions, Islamic scholar, SBP and anyone else I can't think of at the moment.

3) EC drafts law & sends it to parliamentary committee on economy. PCE is staffed with experts appointed by parliament & ARE NOT part of the gov or parliament. They're essentially independent experts working on behalf of the parliament to keep the gov accountable.

4) PCE looks over the law & can then approve or reject.

This is just one simple example & I came up with it in less than a day. Could use some work but it's a lot better than choosing b/w western democracy or CCP. It just takes a bit of imagination, creativity and most importantly a willingness to learn from others and NOT BE IDEOLOGICALLY RIGID in your thinking.

 

[Signalian]

You can get the public to accept almost any change.

Forcing down the throat to change, yeah, that behavior for change has to stop.

You raise a genuine point- public changes through danda. No hope without danda and I am talking of public changing/practical steps on its own, without danda.

ḳhudā ne aaj tak us qaum kī hālat nahīñ badlī

na ho jis ko ḳhayāl aap apnī hālat ke badalne kā

 

[MultaniGuy]

Forcing down the throat to change, yeah, that behavior for change has to stop.

You raise a genuine point- public changes through danda. No hope without danda and I am talking of public changing/practical steps on its own, without danda.

ḳhudā ne aaj tak us qaum kī hālat nahīñ badlī

na ho jis ko ḳhayāl aap apnī hālat ke badalne kā

Yes in China during Mao Zedong's era they killed all the Opium drug addicts to help build the country.

 

[Signalian]

you can't force your ideas on Pakistani people.

Unfortunately, the Pakistani people/public allow themselves to be forced to change, they understand the language of the rod, this has to stop. The literacy level has gone up but how is it benefitting Pakistan ?

This shows that literacy level isn't enough for Pakistanis to stand up for themselves, they still wait for a leader to show them the way.

Yes in China during Mao Zedong's era they killed all the Opium drug addicts to help build the country.

In all honesty, the public wants IK to do everything for them.

Honestly, when people talk against Military or COAS, those are just 500,000 in strength against 220 million public. That is It !
Public says they are behind IK and stand with IK, look at Turkey. The public showed they were behind Erdogan and kept him in power even against Military. In Pakistan, its a blame-game for public, blame the military, blame PMLN, blame PPP, blame past dictators, blame everything - but don't move a muscle yourself.

When members on PDF show their allegiance to IK and talk against Military, I know they are hypocrites too, they will never take any practical step in real life to make a difference for IK or Pakistan, they will just scream on top of their lungs on PDF through words, they will argue to death in posts and that is all they can do.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Pakistani Nationalists should study Chinese and Japanese governing systems

Pakistan should study Chinese one=party state system and the Meiji Restoration that happened in Japan in the 1860's.

Our problems are clear and straightforward.
1) military and bereaucracy are too corrupt and too strong. These two forces dont let anything progress and dont let businesses to grow in Pakistan (bribes are demanded or else).
2) Legislation and law enforcement is almost zero due to harami politicians.
3) business are running on the shoulders of few corrupt like mansha sheerazi or ismail.
4) common people have no hope but to die or run away from country.

What Japanese or Chinese will teach us more?

 

[Signalian]

No point in copying China or USA or UK or Japan or whoever. Study them sure but actually figure out what they're doing that is successful & what they're doing that isn't.
For e.g. study the strengths & weaknesses of one-party vs 2-party vs multi-party systems. Usually where one system has a strength the other system has a weakness. So what you need to do then is craft a system that can combine as much of their strengths as possible.

I'll give you one example.

One-party strength is that they get work done faster however their weakness is that there's also less public oversight. It's the opposite with 2 or multi-party systems. So what do you need to do to make your political system to both be faster but also have public oversight all the while ensuring the those making the decisions are competent?

Ans: Make councils staffed with experts or technocrats that can make policies & laws & have parliamentary oversight over them. How would this work? Lets take an economic council as an example

1) Elect a parliament that does not make the laws or policies itself. Political parties are banned. Elected officials speak for themselves & their own constituencies only. You've just eliminated the biggest incentive for mafias & thugs to want to come into power.

2) EC has reps from finance & planning divisions, Islamic scholar, SBP and anyone else I can't think of at the moment.

3) EC drafts law & sends it to parliamentary committee on economy. PCE is staffed with experts appointed by parliament & ARE NOT part of the gov or parliament. They're essentially independent experts working on behalf of the parliament to keep the gov accountable.

4) PCE looks over the law & can then approve or reject.

This is just one simple example & I came up with it in less than a day. Could use some work but it's a lot better than choosing b/w western democracy or CCP. It just takes a bit of imagination, creativity and most importantly a willingness to learn from others and NOT BE IDEOLOGICALLY RIGID in your thinking.

Who will bell the cat ?

military bereaucracy are too corrupt and too strong

Versus
Public, who are corrupt and hypocrites. The strength of public lies in frauds on streets, running away from country to abroad, blaming everything around them but doing nothing practically, and showing cowardice when the test of time arises.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If a Man is dishonest
That man will rear dishonest children

A man who takes haram money , his children will live of the haram money
and they will be harami like their father , they will claim the haram money was their birth right
They will defend their harami father

If a Group of Dishonest man combine , even with lot of money the will not be able to fix
even a simple garden in their neighborhood


It is not about Nationalism or not , we have dishonest people in Key posts in all institutes
who protect the Dishonest mechanism , because without this system they will loose their Perks


China Ensures , harami (corrupt) are given harshest of punishment so their 10 generation will never steal from Nation


Problem is in gene pool , which is in love with Corrupt life style
There is a genetic level , problem in that Nooni Toon group


It is a GENERATIONAL harami gene


We have situation 1 Harami family is breeding with other harami family creating a Super Harami, and these Super Haramis are now in Key positions in institutes

 

[Signalian]

What Japanese or Chinese will teach us more?

Have you ever looked at circumstances from different point of views ?

Food for thought- what if the ouster of IK is a test (azmaish) for Pakistanis ? a test for public ?
What if God seeing Pakistanis wanting a better Pakistan threw Pakistan and Pakistanis under a test to see if Pakistanis really want a better Pakistan through IK so throw a test on Pakistanis and if they succeed then reward them through a Pakistan envisioned by Jinnah under the aegis of IK ?

we have dishonest people in Key posts in all institutes

Once again, those dishonest people are Public, they are not aliens recruited from Saturn to sit on Govt seats.

The public itself is dishonest. They are getting what they deserve.

 

[Arsalan345]

Unfortunately, the Pakistani people/public allow themselves to be forced to change, they understand the language of the rod, this has to stop. The literacy level has gone up but how is it benefitting Pakistan ?

This shows that literacy level isn't enough for Pakistanis to stand up for themselves, they still wait for a leader to show them the way.


In all honesty, the public wants IK to do everything for them.

Honestly, when people talk against Military or COAS, those are just 500,000 in strength against 220 million public. That is It !
Public says they are behind IK and stand with IK, look at Turkey. The public showed they were behind Erdogan and kept him in power even against Military. In Pakistan, its a blame-game for public, blame the military, blame PMLN, blame PPP, blame past dictators, blame everything - but don't move a muscle yourself.

When members on PDF show their allegiance to IK and talk against Military, I know they are hypocrites too, they will never take any practical step in real life to make a difference for IK or Pakistan, they will just scream on top of their lungs on PDF through words, they will argue to death in posts and that is all they can do.

Yes, it's true that we aren't ready to stand up but we definitely don't like the Chinese communist system. You can see how the Chinese are forcing Pakistani members here and trying to persuade them that their communist system is better than the democratic system. Most of the members from Pakistan are calling me Indian.

They are calling me Indian because they want Pakistan to remain in a half-communist, half-democratic system. They don't realize that majority of Pakistan's population is either in the west or in Arab countries. If the Chinese system is so important then why educated Pakistani people are heading to Europe? These guys think emotionally. I think education is necessary. Multani guy said that all Pakistani are pro-China. I asked him if it is written on a wall. There is no reply. If all Pakistanis are pro-China and like the communist system then why they are heading to Europe? We want true democracy. You will find many well-educated Pakistanis in Europe. No country in the world has the right to change our system. These Chinese members, force others to accept their narrative. I don't like their system at all.

We appreciate Chinese help and everything and I like China, as a nation but it's the system that I dislike. You can see Everyone here supports China. i also support but within a limit. China has no right to interfere in our matters. These people hate our relations with the west. Why do they hate it? Pakistan isn't a Chinese property. it's a country that represents Pakistani people. I can talk about communism all day and how communists fall into a superiority complex. They basically destroy themselves one day. The democratic model is still the best model. Nobody wants media censor, forced kidnappings, or restricted access to the internet. All this happens in our beloved China. I can only pray for Pakistani members who support the communist system.

 

[etylo]

Yes, it's true that we aren't ready to stand up but we definitely don't like the Chinese communist system. You can see how the Chinese are forcing Pakistani members here and trying to persuade them that their communist system is better than the democratic system. Most of the members from Pakistan are calling me Indian.

They are calling me Indian because they want Pakistan to remain in a half-communist, half-democratic system. They don't realize that majority of Pakistan's population is either in the west or in Arab countries. If the Chinese system is so important then why educated Pakistani people are heading to Europe? These guys think emotionally. I think education is necessary. Multani guy said that all Pakistani are pro-China. I asked him if it is written on a wall. There is no reply. If all Pakistanis are pro-China and like the communist system then why they are heading to Europe? We want true democracy. You will find many well-educated Pakistanis in Europe. No country in the world has the right to change our system. These Chinese members, force others to accept their narrative. I don't like their system at all.

We appreciate Chinese help and everything and I like China, as a nation but it's the system that I dislike.

Are you a fool or just too ignorant ? The least you can accuse the Chinese is that they are forcing their system on other people.

 

[Signalian]

Problem is in gene pool , which is in love with Corrupt life style
There is a genetic level , problem in that Nooni Toon group

Just PMLN ?

In eyes of PTI supporters, everyone is corrupt - Military, bureaucracy, all Govt departments, PMLN, PPP, MQM etc - everyone except PTI is corrupt.

What will be the number of corrupt public in Pakistan then ?
All of corrupt Pakistan - PTI
= 22 crore - PTI numbers
= maybe 10 crore, maybe 15 crore
You can do the math yourself too.

You can tilt the equation any way you want, the result is corrupt public.

 

[Arsalan345]

Are you a fool or just too ignorant ? The least you can accuse the Chinese is that they are forcing their system on other people.

I dislike communism. I am saying it openly. No offense. bye.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If 100,000 going to hell that means I should start committing crime of bribery

This logic, that everyone commits crime is mostly used for justifying existence of eating haram or giving or taking bribery

The answer is very simple in Islamic system, such person is given the harshest punishment, so he does not breed, the Arm is chopped, why?

#1 He will never steal
#2 Difficult anyone would marry their daughter to man with one missing arm


Nawaz is a Choor , he was allowed to breed , what is result he gave birth to more choors
it is classic example


Why is Dar is a Finance minister? why ?? He commited crime why was his hand not chopped ?
No he was given a lean treatment , allowed to enjoy life in UK , and now he is new finance minister

Ishaq dar children , living fantastic life style in UK , lots of money

A choor only breeds choor


The corrupt , if allowed to breed will create more corrupt people who love the life of corruption



China , hangs their corrupt people , even harsher penelty then what is proposed in Islam against corrupt



China is china today because it uprooted corruption at every possible chance

 

[Signalian]

Yes, it's true that we aren't ready to stand

If today, as its proclaimed that all Pakistanis are standing behind IK, then wouldn't IK be in power ? This makes Civil Govt, Military, PMLN, PPP etc look so strong that it's actually disappointing to witness this. Its very dismaying.

One has to think and re-think what kind of support is being given to IK by Pakistani public.

 

[Arsalan345]

Just PMLN ?

In eyes of PTI supporters, everyone is corrupt - Military, bureaucracy, all Govt departments, PMLN, PPP, MQM etc - everyone except PTI is corrupt.

What will be the number of corrupt public in Pakistan then ?
All of corrupt Pakistan - PTI
= 22 crore - PTI numbers
= maybe 10 crore, maybe 15 crore
You can do the math yourself too.

You can tilt the equation any way you want, the result is corrupt public.

You are right. It's the nation that must stand up. No force in the world can stop the force of the people. Will is necessary. There is no will to change. Everyone wants Imran khan to change the system. it's a problem of education. A broad-minded approach will solve problems.

If today, as its proclaimed that all Pakistanis are standing behind IK, then wouldn't IK be in power ? This makes Civil Govt, Military, PMLN, PPP etc look so strong that it's actually disappointing to witness this. Its very dismaying.

One has to think and re-think what kind of support is being given to IK by Pakistani public.

The problem is education. we started (As a nation) corruption because there is no sense of right or wrong. there is no fear of punishment. There is no dignity, no pride. Everyone is thinking about their own goals, their own families, etc. Thinking is key. A broad mindset is necessary but they aren't thinking wisely because most of them aren't well educated. It's sad but true. They want Imran khan to correct the system but they will continue their corruption. I see corruption each day. it's like normal stuff. Those same people talk about religion. they offer prayers five times. I mean are we even Muslim? We must ask ourselves first. Do we have an understanding that something is right and something is wrong? I think we don't even know what's right or wrong. we are only following leaders, nations, etc. Imran khan is a hero. Similarly, nobody wants to listen anything against China because, for typical Pakistanis, the Chinese are heroes. I mean what is this mindset? It's a lack of education.