Pakistani Nationalists should study Chinese and Japanese governing systems

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Other example of theory

Fazlu is a choor , he bred up a son he is a Choor like himself in his image because he is a resut of eating haram all his life

No such thing as a Grand , self reflection a Choor needs to be hunt down
and brought down
and that is True Justice

Majority of Pakistani eat Halal , it is this 5% choor families and choor people sitting in institutes


A choor is a choor , a choor does not get a easy way out if they commit less then 22 million corruption


Why should honest Pakistani need to self relfect , no the CHOOR needs to be brought down

 

[Beast]

You have already accepted in an earlier post that Chinese people aren't free. please stop this nonsense now. Your system isn't our system.

Lol.. you are the one promoting free speech. See the selective stance u choose. If so, u shall follow me to censor any anti China content here.

 

[etylo]

There will still be few Japanese that are that radical. It is just much fewer than in the past. Even back in the past, many were sane enough to refuse or simply not do it.

But this is more because they are rich and wealthy nowadays compared to during WW2. As a country gets comfortable, their people also get soft. The attitudes however are still radical. They hold loyalty to a lesser degree than in the past in regards to that sort of stuff but more loyalty in another realm since they are wealthy. Their experts will want to stay and work for Japan. Many Chinese experts will go overseas for money and higher pay. Even if China itself nowadays is an amazing place to work. I have.

Literally more than a quarter of US AI industry is Chinese talent. Many right at the top of not just silicon value management and founding but also the engineers doing the hard work and not just the leader or being the face e.g. Lisa Su and that sort. Can you imagine Japanese in those numbers working for their main antagonist? Even if the pay is 20% higher they will not. Yes few would obviously but nowhere near the significant numbers of Chinese going overseas for higher pay. It is much better these days than in the distant past. Can and will be better still.

Are you sure you are not mistaken ? The stats I look at now is that there are about 1.5 million Japanese in US while there are about 5 million people of Chinese ancestray including from Taiwan and HK eventhough there is 10 times the population of Japan when compared to China and Japan is a much more wealthy country for long time. One would concludes that there shouldnt be that many Japanese want to come to US when compared to Chinese.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Have you ever looked at circumstances from different point of views ?

Food for thought- what if the ouster of IK is a test (azmaish) for Pakistanis ? a test for public ?
What if God seeing Pakistanis wanting a better Pakistan threw Pakistan and Pakistanis under a test to see if Pakistanis really want a better Pakistan through IK so throw a test on Pakistanis and if they succeed then reward them through a Pakistan envisioned by Jinnah under the aegis of IK ?

God bless your soul sir. You made a point that I would want to believe in, but alas its not the case.
Imran Khan may be only guy in PTI who is may be sincere. But when I look around in PTI, its the same animals as other parties. I mean I know few guys personally, and they are as guilty as Zerdari.
Kia karyga Imran Khan.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Versus
Public, who are corrupt and hypocrites. The strength of public lies in frauds on streets, running away from country to abroad, blaming everything around them but doing nothing practically, and showing cowardice when the test of time arises.

I have talked to Goras of many sorts, and many Pakistanis abroad. Btw I work for industry and day and night sit with industry guys.
Three big reasons they give not to move or start businesses in Pakistan are as follows:
1) Govt doesn't control exchange rates, and thus many importers die in one night.
2) There is no legislation on many things. For example, data protection is a matter of life and death for multinational companies. And much more.
3) Bureaucracy and generals demands things in exchange to allow others to work in Pakistan. For example, if a country wants to assist Pakistanis through the embassy, these bureaucrats will take it as a favor to that country and ultimately countries and people run away from us, even if they see potential to work here in Pakistan. Secondly, as you set up your businesses in Pakistan, some govt official(s) will demand money from you, and that too on monthly basis. Local thugs backed by politicians and bureaucracy are also active in all that ( extortion money collection in Karachi and Lahore). The biggest crime Pakistani bureaucracy is doing is not doing its work, and is not allowing others to do their work.

Estimately Pakistan loses billions of dollars each year due to things like that.

Now my question from you is, where is the public in all that?

 

[Signalian]

Now my question from you is, where is the public in all that?

Have you read the book " sach ka safar" by Hashwani ?

It shows his struggle from a common man of public to a top businessman in Pakistan and the threats he faces till today, the bureaucratic moves that hindered him at every level, military officers as well as Zardari standing in his way. He tells the way to reach that top level amid all threats and calamities that he faced. He didn't enter politics on a level that he should have, but IK did, although IK's path was different to reach a top level.

Do read the part where he mentions about the problems thrown in his way to buy hotels and make a chain of them and why he had to flee to UAE. No one wanted him to raise his head and become rich, he had to snatch it and he used ways and means to do it. Its unfortunate that he didn't go a step forward and dwell in politics as a stepping stone to lead Pakistan.

There are always ways and means for someone who wants to do something. Excuses and reasons are just a phenomenon used to step back and hibernate in comfort zone. If Hashwani can manage to control finances, resource data as well as contracts and hotels from the biggest mafia in Pakistan, there are no more excuses that it cant be done. I can myself list a 1000 problems that such and such cannot be done, its in the hands of PMLN or PPP or military controls this and that and also Malik Riaz did so and so.

Have you read that Anwer Pervaiz was a bus conductor and driver while working as telephone operator while Hashwani used to load cement bags on trucks ? What are they now, braving the storms of Civil and military Governments in Pakistan. Some of the top businessmen of Pakistan were also offered seats in different ministry but they rejected. They looked at politics from a different angle. They reached a certain stage facing corrupt politicians and dictators, and then kept enhancing their businesses becoming billionaires.

This cant be done, that cant be done. Please, enough of excuses and reasons.

 

[Signalian]

God bless your soul sir. You made a point that I would want to believe in, but alas its not the case.
Imran Khan may be only guy in PTI who is may be sincere. But when I look around in PTI, its the same animals as other parties. I mean I know few guys personally, and they are as guilty as Zerdari.
Kia karyga Imran Khan.

There are people here who know politics more than me as I don't follow politics of Pakistan much, so how did Nawaz rise or anybody else rose through the ranks in politics, many know better than me. But I can tell that even the career of a Military office can be planned from the very start and I have seen that happen. Even a 2nd Lt can be directed along a path from the very start to become a General as soon as he leaves PMA.

When a cadet in PMA is about to get commissioned, if interested, many fathers or relatives talk with his platoon commander about that cadet. A unit is chosen for him, where there are no claimants or cadets with fathers who have higher rank than his father or a new unit in which its certain that he will get outstanding ACRs raising his OEI from the get go. The CO cannot get outstanding ACR to every officer so this 2nd Lt has to stand out without any competition in the unit. so e.g if 5 Sind Regiment has claimants, he will go to sindh Regiment but will choose maybe 1st or 5th or 10th Sindh regiment.

It will be observed, which Lt Col or Brigadier is known at his time for commission so if timing is right, can he be sent as ADC to them when these officers become Maj General and above,

Then it will be seen which career officers are at rank of Capt, Maj and Lt Col, in Sindh regiment who have a good chance to make General as to help him in promotions when he starts to make to higher ranks. When he is Lt Col or Brigadier, these senior officers should be Maj Generals or Lt General and probably in good posts for his promotion and posting.

Then as courses come in the unit for young officers, he has to volunteer or CO is approached to sent him on top level courses for his career, not just average courses or trainings. This may or may not work as CO can be a hard nut to crack sometimes too. Then as he progresses, even his DS in staff college is approached to know his performance and what can he do better. In some cases, he is sent in a syndicate with easy DS's who are known somehow to associates or known to give good grades.

Ok so as he progresses above in ranks, his career can be orchestrated to make him reach the level of Maj General at least and hopefully a LT General.

I told you in previous post also - don't give excuses or reasons.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Have you read the book " sach ka safar" by Hashwani ?

It shows his struggle from a common man of public to a top businessman in Pakistan and the threats he faces till today, the bureaucratic moves that hindered him at every level, military officers as well as Zardari standing in his way. He tells the way to reach that top level amid all threats and calamities that he faced. He didn't enter politics on a level that he should have, but IK did, although IK's path was different to reach a top level.

Do read the part where he mentions about the problems thrown in his way to buy hotels and make a chain of them and why he had to flee to UAE. No one wanted him to raise his head and become rich, he had to snatch it and he used ways and means to do it. Its unfortunate that he didn't go a step forward and dwell in politics as a stepping stone to lead Pakistan.

There are always ways and means for someone who wants to do something. Excuses and reasons are just a phenomenon used to step back and hibernate in comfort zone. If Hashwani can manage to control finances, resource data as well as contracts and hotels from the biggest mafia in Pakistan, there are no more excuses that it cant be done. I can myself list a 1000 problems that such and such cannot be done, its in the hands of PMLN or PPP or military controls this and that and also Malik Riaz did so and so.

Have you read that Anwer Pervaiz was a bus conductor and driver while working as telephone operator while Hashwani used to load cement bags on trucks ? What are they now, braving the storms of Civil and military Governments in Pakistan. Some of the top businessmen of Pakistan were also offered seats in different ministry but they rejected. They looked at politics from a different angle. They reached a certain stage facing corrupt politicians and dictators, and then kept enhancing their businesses becoming billionaires.

This cant be done, that cant be done. Please, enough of excuses and reasons.

If you can't see things on the ground, I can't make you see them. You may be right, but people are not mad to flee Pakistan and global companies are not mad to skip the great potential of the Pakistani market. I actually know why Hashwani fled Pakistan. Zardari wanted Marriott from him, and after many assassination attempts, he decided to leave Pakistan.

That's all I want to say.

 

[fitpOsitive]

There are people here who know politics more than me as I don't follow politics of Pakistan much, so how did Nawaz rise or anybody else rose through the ranks in politics, many know better than me. But I can tell that even the career of a Military office can be planned from the very start and I have seen that happen. Even a 2nd Lt can be directed along a path from the very start to become a General as soon as he leaves PMA.

When a cadet in PMA is about to get commissioned, if interested, many fathers or relatives talk with his platoon commander about that cadet. A unit is chosen for him, where there are no claimants or cadets with fathers who have higher rank than his father or a new unit in which its certain that he will get outstanding ACRs raising his OEI from the get go. The CO cannot get outstanding ACR to every officer so this 2nd Lt has to stand out without any competition in the unit. so e.g if 5 Sind Regiment has claimants, he will go to sindh Regiment but will choose maybe 1st or 5th or 10th Sindh regiment.

It will be observed, which Lt Col or Brigadier is known at his time for commission so if timing is right, can he be sent as ADC to them when these officers become Maj General and above,

Then it will be seen which career officers are at rank of Capt, Maj and Lt Col, in Sindh regiment who have a good chance to make General as to help him in promotions when he starts to make to higher ranks. When he is Lt Col or Brigadier, these senior officers should be Maj Generals or Lt General and probably in good posts for his promotion and posting.

Then as courses come in the unit for young officers, he has to volunteer or CO is approached to sent him on top level courses for his career, not just average courses or trainings. This may or may not work as CO can be a hard nut to crack sometimes too. Then as he progresses, even his DS in staff college is approached to know his performance and what can he do better. In some cases, he is sent in a syndicate with easy DS's who are known somehow to associates or known to give good grades.

Ok so as he progresses above in ranks, his career can be orchestrated to make him reach the level of Maj General at least and hopefully a LT General.

I told you in previous post also - don't give excuses or reasons.

I am confused actually after reading your post. That's exactly what I was saying. The corruption in the Military and Bureaucracy. That's how things work around us. Or may be I have missed your point totally?

 

[EternalMortal]

Forcing down the throat to change, yeah, that behavior for change has to stop.

You raise a genuine point- public changes through danda. No hope without danda and I am talking of public changing/practical steps on its own, without danda.

ḳhudā ne aaj tak us qaum kī hālat nahīñ badlī

na ho jis ko ḳhayāl aap apnī hālat ke badalne kā

Bhai, what do you think laws are? All laws are technically "forced down the throat" of someone.

Extrajudicial punishments can be considered as "danda". Laws, however, are not.

Change can be implemented in phases. You didn't have to make all those traffic changes at once. THAT is why I made fun of those Japanese experts. Why couldn't they have just said that Pakistan will need to take a step-by-step approach to changing traffic laws? Either, they were forced to say everything is good & came up with a lame excuse for it OR they were incompetent.

Who will bell the cat ?

Well, 1st people need to get out of this Western democracy vs military dictatorship vs CCP mindset.

It's the same thing with being in USA or China camp. Like have you considered trying to work toward a unified muslim state? Or at least something analogous to EU?

Only solution is to 1st raise awareness that there are other options. Subsequent generations can then work on practical matters to make it happen

 

[Signalian]

I am confused actually after reading your post. That's exactly what I was saying. The corruption in the Military and Bureaucracy. That's how things work around us. Or may be I have missed your point totally?

If someone wants, a correct gentlemen as a military officer can be raised to top brass level, but no one wants that.

I am showing you possibilities.

 

[Beast]

Yes, it's true that we aren't ready to stand up but we definitely don't like the Chinese communist system. You can see how the Chinese are forcing Pakistani members here and trying to persuade them that their communist system is better than the democratic system. Most of the members from Pakistan are calling me Indian.

They are calling me Indian because they want Pakistan to remain in a half-communist, half-democratic system. They don't realize that majority of Pakistan's population is either in the west or in Arab countries. If the Chinese system is so important then why educated Pakistani people are heading to Europe? These guys think emotionally. I think education is necessary. Multani guy said that all Pakistani are pro-China. I asked him if it is written on a wall. There is no reply. If all Pakistanis are pro-China and like the communist system then why they are heading to Europe? We want true democracy. You will find many well-educated Pakistanis in Europe. No country in the world has the right to change our system. These Chinese members, force others to accept their narrative. I don't like their system at all.

We appreciate Chinese help and everything and I like China, as a nation but it's the system that I dislike. You can see Everyone here supports China. i also support but within a limit. China has no right to interfere in our matters. These people hate our relations with the west. Why do they hate it? Pakistan isn't a Chinese property. it's a country that represents Pakistani people. I can talk about communism all day and how communists fall into a superiority complex. They basically destroy themselves one day. The democratic model is still the best model. Nobody wants media censor, forced kidnappings, or restricted access to the internet. All this happens in our beloved China. I can only pray for Pakistani members who support the communist system.

Lol.. see how this liar make a blunt lie telling how Chinese shove our system into Pakistan. Typical freedom of lies display by you that you learn from the american freedom system.

This thread is even started by a Pakistanis and not Chinese. The only countries try going around try shoving down their system into any countries are the so called human right champion and free media western countries who spread lies and use media to brainwash the globe and OP.

 

[LakeHawk180]

Lol.. see how this liar make a blunt lie telling how Chinese shove our system into Pakistan. Typical freedom of lies display by you that you learn from the american freedom system.

This thread is even started by a Pakistanis and not Chinese. The only countries try going around try shoving down their system into any countries are the so called human right champion and free media western countries who spread lies and use media to brainwash the globe and OP.

Truth is despite all the wars, conflicts etc India and China fought, Indian stance towards China has been consistent and often supportive. Trade between our nations continues to be strong despite the wrenches China and other interested parties throw at it.

Where we support you — UN or other multilateral forums — our position doesn’t change with any newly minted alliances. Where we oppose you, we oppose you without escalation — and remain consistent despite provocations by external players.

Pakistan on the other hand continues to be unreliable through and through. It’s only going to get worse with time because they don’t relate with you, their leadership has financial interests in the west, and you can only screw around with Islam for so long before their people turn on you. They, lack cohesion, integrity and consistency in national policy.

If there were no territorial disputes, india would back China literally everywhere because we don’t trust the west all that much either.

China stands against India to its detriment. Two nations that would otherwise be natural allies are wasting time chasing god knows what.

 

[Beast]

Truth is despite all the wars, conflicts etc India and China fought, Indian stance towards China has been consistent and often supportive. Trade between our nations continues to be strong despite the wrenches China and other interested parties throw at it.

Where we support you — UN or other multilateral forums — our position doesn’t change with any newly minted alliances. Where we oppose you, we oppose you without escalation — and remain consistent despite provocations by external players.

Pakistan on the other hand continues to be unreliable through and through. It’s only going to get worse with time because they don’t relate with you, their leadership has financial interests in the west, and you can only screw around with Islam for so long before their people turn on you. They, lack cohesion, integrity and consistency in national policy.

If there were no territorial disputes, india would back China literally everywhere because we don’t trust the west all that much either.

China stands against India to its detriment. Two nations that would otherwise be natural allies are wasting time chasing god knows what.

When comes to nationalists and interest of own country, at least India do a much better job than Pakistan. This is a blunt truth.

 

[Signalian]

Bhai, what do you think laws are? All laws are technically "forced down the throat" of someone.

Extrajudicial punishments can be considered as "danda". Laws, however, are not.

Change can be implemented in phases. You didn't have to make all those traffic changes at once. THAT is why I made fun of those Japanese experts. Why couldn't they have just said that Pakistan will need to take a step-by-step approach to changing traffic laws? Either, they were forced to say everything is good & came up with a lame excuse for it OR they were incompetent.



Well, 1st people need to get out of this Western democracy vs military dictatorship vs CCP mindset.

It's the same thing with being in USA or China camp. Like have you considered trying to work toward a unified muslim state? Or at least something analogous to EU?

Only solution is to 1st raise awareness that there are other options. Subsequent generations can then work on practical matters to make it happen

Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Americans or who so ever, it doesn't matter. Pakistan's achievement is its birth through hands of Jinnah. Opinions, recommendations, expert advices and suggestions can be taken from anyone. A second or third opinion can hold value in many cases, even if its coming from foreign nations. Eventually, the decision is made by the ones who have the power to make and implement decisions.

The democracy, military dictatorship, etc mindset is what people are after, either one of them, but what is lacking is the change within an individual.

Everyone wants the best for Pakistan, a good change inside Pakistan but who wants go change himself so a change in Pakistan can be brought ? No one. The public doesn’t want to change or adapt, neither come out of their comfort zone.

As an example, a PDF member accused an army officer of corruption and his friend gets favours from that army officer too. When I mentioned different ways of tightening the noose around army officers neck to stop corruption, I got bombarded with excuses and reasons why it can’t be done. Well I know it can be done, maybe I have done it to a corrupt government official or army officer too so i know which steps to undertake for this process. That PDF member is also a part of corruption as he knows corruption is occurring but saves his friend rather than report the officer. This is real life in Pakistan.

Let the corruption occur. This is why public is weak and will always remain weak.