Pakistani Indian showdown inevitable in Afghanistan?

[footmarks]

Another thing would be to draw India into a long, bloody and expensive war in Afghanistan against the Taliban. India has been desperately trying to surround Pakistan, it initially would've gone with the Iranian, AF base option, but putting military in Iran in todays world would draw flak from the US.

As we've seen, the Taliban are unbeatable by COIN operations you need to establish massive control and put in massive resources to Taliban proof Afghanistan. India often boasts around in articles that they have the most experience with COIN.

The idea from Pakistan SHOULD be to hit Indian intelligence operations within Afghanistan as soon as we can. So that Indian strategy in Afghanistan shifts from simple hit and run against Pakistan to formally maintaining a military presence in Afghanistan. This allows for a see-able and quantifiable target for us and only then would we have a chance for that "Indian graveyard" scenario you're talking about.

How mean one can be. You think Afganistan is your personal playground/ national stadium or what? for whatever reasons, at least GOI is working for the good of common Afgan people. Have a heart please.Its like saying -since china is trying to encircle india by making a military base in pakistan, India should involve in wide ranging bloodshed and destabilization of pakistan to make pakistan a "graveyard" for chinese.
Afganistan is a soverign country, not anybody's personal property. Pakistan should look for its strategic interests, but not at the cost of blood of Afgan people.GOI is doing a good job there, and afgan people recognize that. Try doing equally good and you will not need the policy of advancing taliban led bllodshed.What a shame, you are willing to kill millions of fellow muslims in your neighbourhood just because a few hundred Indians will also die.
Grow up boys, there is something called diplomacy for mature people to deal with sensitive matters in a non-violent ways.

 

[Gazzi]

How mean one can be. You think Afganistan is your personal playground/ national stadium or what? for whatever reasons, at least GOI is working for the good of common Afgan people. Have a heart please.Its like saying -since china is trying to encircle india by making a military base in pakistan, India should involve in wide ranging bloodshed and destabilization of pakistan to make pakistan a "graveyard" for chinese.
Afganistan is a soverign country, not anybody's personal property. Pakistan should look for its strategic interests, but not at the cost of blood of Afgan people.GOI is doing a good job there, and afgan people recognize that. Try doing equally good and you will not need the policy of advancing taliban led bllodshed.What a shame, you are willing to kill millions of fellow muslims in your neighbourhood just because a few hundred Indians will also die.
Grow up boys, there is something called diplomacy for mature people to deal with sensitive matters in a non-violent ways.

Try telling your state sponsored terrorist forces like RAW who Pakistan believes to be using, let me repeat USING Aghanistan as nothing more then a staging ground for its brutal campaign against Pakistan.

The same allegations can be made against India and we can go on like this till the cows come home, nonetheless, the Indian presence in Afghanistan is not something accptable for Pakistan and will have to take measures, like letting Indian soldiers be killed, nothing was said about Afghan civilians.

This may be an Indian bargaining tool, that Afghan civilians will be killed in the process, a typical Indian response of killing civilians to achieve their goal.

Pakistan has to share a border with Afghanistan and will try to do whatever it takes to make peace in the country, but with Indian presence there can never be peace, just like the pre-Taliban era where the Indians used to arm the then Northern Alliance along with their Russian Masters, therefore please don;t try and play the innocent game, India has its own objectives and Pakistan has hers.

 

[Awesome]

How mean one can be. You think Afganistan is your personal playground/ national stadium or what? for whatever reasons, at least GOI is working for the good of common Afgan people. Have a heart please.Its like saying -since china is trying to encircle india by making a military base in pakistan, India should involve in wide ranging bloodshed and destabilization of pakistan to make pakistan a "graveyard" for chinese.
Afganistan is a soverign country, not anybody's personal property. Pakistan should look for its strategic interests, but not at the cost of blood of Afgan people.GOI is doing a good job there, and afgan people recognize that. Try doing equally good and you will not need the policy of advancing taliban led bllodshed.What a shame, you are willing to kill millions of fellow muslims in your neighbourhood just because a few hundred Indians will also die.
Grow up boys, there is something called diplomacy for mature people to deal with sensitive matters in a non-violent ways.

Why do Indians keep replying with the same crap over and over that they are there for reconstruction and bla bla bla. Pakistan doesn't believe you, that is not the argument here, we are attacking Indian terrorists. End of story.

Bunch of drama queens.

 

[Awesome]

AA,

Even the most fool hardy Indian General knows that unless GOP allows it free entry / exit over Pakistan they can never be a deciding force in Afghanistan. However they can be smart enough to exploit
the tribal strife at 1/100 of the cost.

Pakistan has to factor that in all its future strategy.

Presently India has the upper hand but the roles can easily be reversed if Pakistan can get Mr MO to give up OBL in return for share of the power in Afghanistan.

What say ?

Regards

Thats why I said, India maintaining a full military presence could work in Pakistan's favor, however a few running around here n there would be a tough kill for Pakistan.

Thats why we need to hit Indian intelligence (known) assets in Afghanistan really hard till either they pack up and leave or are drawn into a more conventional, quantifiable battle.

 

[footmarks]

Try telling your state sponsored terrorist forces like RAW who Pakistan believes to be using, let me repeat USING Aghanistan as nothing more then a staging ground for its brutal campaign against Pakistan.

The same allegations can be made against India and we can go on like this till the cows come home, nonetheless, the Indian presence in Afghanistan is not something accptable for Pakistan and will have to take measures, like letting Indian soldiers be killed, nothing was said about Afghan civilians.

This may be an Indian bargaining tool, that Afghan civilians will be killed in the process, a typical Indian response of killing civilians to achieve their goal.

Pakistan has to share a border with Afghanistan and will try to do whatever it takes to make peace in the country, but with Indian presence there can never be peace, just like the pre-Taliban era where the Indians used to arm the then Northern Alliance along with their Russian Masters, therefore please don;t try and play the innocent game, India has its own objectives and Pakistan has hers.

Why does Afgan people like Indian presence then? A recent survey by an independent agency said that India is most appreciated among all countries having a presence in Afganistan (incidentally, pakistan was the least popular in the same survey, enough of a reason for not believing in the genuineness of that survey by pakistan. had the result been just opposite, the same survey would have been hailed as a FACT, an eternal truth).
anyways, coming to the highlighted part, It really amaze me how anyone, esp. pakistan, can believe in RAW being such an effective spy agency that it can play any significant role in afganistan. AFAIK, RAW is just like any other govt ogranisation, fillied with corrupt babus, and grossly ineffective. Had it been so efficient as many of you believe, there would not have been attacks like 26/11. the agency which cant even protect its homeland cant do anything in a foreign country. and there are no evidences to support your statments as well. sure there wll be many RAW spies in afganistan, but all they would be doing is - just nothing as they will be caught red handed as soon as they step out in the streets by spies from highly professional and efficient agencies like CIA, ISI, MI5 etc having a significant presence in there.

Pakistan is afraid for no apparent reason I would say. At most, what GOI is doing is trying to project its soft power there (not military power definitely), a ggodwill earning ploy so that afganistan will not be used as training camp for terrorism against India (like pakistan, for example) in future, whoever come to power there.

 

[Gazzi]

Why does Afgan people like Indian presence then? A recent survey by an independent agency said that India is most appreciated among all countries having a presence in Afganistan (incidentally, pakistan was the least popular in the same survey, enough of a reason for not believing in the genuineness of that survey by pakistan. had the result been just opposite, the same survey would have been hailed as a FACT, an eternal truth).
anyways, coming to the highlighted part, It really amaze me how anyone, esp. pakistan, can believe in RAW being such an effective spy agency that it can play any significant role in afganistan. AFAIK, RAW is just like any other govt ogranisation, fillied with corrupt babus, and grossly ineffective. Had it been so efficient as many of you believe, there would not have been attacks like 26/11. the agency which cant even protect its homeland cant do anything in a foreign country. and there are no evidences to support your statments as well. sure there wll be many RAW spies in afganistan, but all they would be doing is - just nothing as they will be caught red handed as soon as they step out in the streets by spies from highly professional and efficient agencies like CIA, ISI, MI5 etc having a significant presence in there.

Pakistan is afraid for no apparent reason I would say. At most, what GOI is doing is trying to project its soft power there (not military power definitely), a ggodwill earning ploy so that afganistan will not be used as training camp for terrorism against India (like pakistan, for example) in future, whoever come to power there.

That now depends on what you call independent and where the survey was held and by how many people.

If that was the case then there would be peace in Afghanistan, clearly they don;t want ANY outside interference there.

Anyway, lets wait for the Taliban to be in power and then ask those surveys, lets see who they will vote for......

As for the RAW part,

Yes, Pakistan believes in RAW being a terrorist prganisation funded by India and GOI. There involvement spans during the 80s with Altaf Hussain and in Balochistan and now in Afghanistan otherwise, what are RAW doing in Afghanistan.

Clearly something we don't believe and something Pakistan has to do something about, why, because they are Indian and we don;t trust Indians, simple

 

[chantpapipart2]

get some of your fcats right first, The Northern Alliance ame to poewr and wre removed by the Taliban. Most of Af was in their control an Pakistan recognised it as did Saudi Arabia and others as the Af government.

India needs to understand just like everyone else that Af do not want democracy.......it is not their way of life and this must be respected. Something which the West and others, i.e. India do not seem to understand. They will not accet outside foreign interference and not accept other ways of life. period. So your crap about supporting a government here and there is nothing more then interference.

Secondly, India did get involved in East Pakistan and other countries like, Sri Lanka and Tibet where PRC have always accused India of involvement. India is a country with a 1/3 of its Districts with known terrorists organisations. So your crap about Pakistan helping terrorists i.e. Taliban, well maybe you have been disillusioned or not upto speed with the last 9 years where Pakistan is involved in the WoT. Naybe a little confusing your Indian mind or just too great to praise Pakistan that the pathetic Indian mind just cannot come to terms with.

As for Kashmir, call it what you will, I call them freedom fighters, period so more or less then your own reverd Bhagat Singh, and the likes......and befpre you go off on a tangent trying to derail the thread the British view of Indian freedom fighters is somewhat different, hence the Pakistani view is too different then that of India. If India cannot accept that then go swivel, I couldn't care less........

I just pray India does send a huge force into Af, field day will start.....however, I think once the US starts to withdraw, Pakistan should actively target these so called Indian consulates (the ones where hundreds of people queue to get visas for India, those ones, which is why India has them there right) and take out personnel, or rather kidnap them back over the border and deal with them there. Sooner or later Indian involvement will end and they will run with their tails between there legs just like 31/12/1999 in Kandahar

I think you desperately need some history lessons...First Taliban regime was never recognised by the civilised world. You are justifying barbaric Taliban rule for your own motives, in fact you want to use Afghanistan for your STRTAGIC DEPTH. By forcing Taliban on afghan, you want to deprive them of their right to choose their govt. Let Afghans decide what they want. Democracy is the best thing that can happen to Afghanistan and India is trying to support that regime.

your second point.....1/3 of Indian Districts with known terrorists organisations. Even for a moment i accept that they are terrorist, they don't attack other sovereign countries from Indian soil with direct or indirect support. The dispute between Indian state and naxalites is an internal matter, with no repercussions for other countries including Pakistan. As far as Tibet is concern, give me one proof that India is involved in any political activity, I will accept that...

Sri Lankan govt would have never won against LTTE if India had supported them. Sri Lankan govt had clear support from India in their war against LTTE. Let accept that India has considerable influence over neighbouring countries that doesn't mean we interfere in their internal matters. For example, India has refused to intervene in post election crisis of sri lank a.

Now Kashmir... there is a dispute between ind-pak and that cannot be resolved by violence. If you think armed struggle ( freedom fighter/ terrorist) can win Kashmir for you, i am sorry my friend that is not going to happen. Infiltration is down, violence is at all time. India and Pakistan can resolve all issue by peaceful dialogue. Nothing can justify terrorism. Stop comparing bhagat singh with those barbaric creatures.

India - Afghanistan...You want to target Indian counsulate..How???? you have already bombed Indian embassy twice. You are clearly suggesting use of terrorism for achieving political goals and that’s the root cause of what is happening in pakistan. You can prey as much as you want but india will never send its troop. As far as Kandahar is concern. That was a cowardly act of hijacking and it’s a matter of pride for you.

You are saying "pathetic Indian mind"... my friend don't loose your cool

 

[Awesome]

I personally don't care about the Indian mentality. It is irrelevant. Indian spy networks MUST be bombed if Pakistan is to weaken its hold on Afghanistan.

 

[chantpapipart2]

I personally don't care about the Indian mentality. It is irrelevant. Indian spy networks MUST be bombed if Pakistan is to weaken its hold on Afghanistan.

You want to bomb indian establishments in afghanistan AGAIN. May be third time lucky. Try, but be ready for retaliation this time

 

[footmarks]

That now depends on what you call independent and where the survey was held and by how many people.

If that was the case then there would be peace in Afghanistan, clearly they don;t want ANY outside interference there.
Anyway, lets wait for the Taliban to be in power and then ask those surveys, lets see who they will vote for......

As for the RAW part,

Yes, Pakistan believes in RAW being a terrorist prganisation funded by India and GOI. There involvement spans during the 80s with Altaf Hussain and in Balochistan and now in Afghanistan otherwise, what are RAW doing in Afghanistan.

Clearly something we don't believe and something Pakistan has to do something about, why, because they are Indian and we don;t trust Indians, simple

You're bang on this time. Afgans dont want ANY OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE, I repeat ANY OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE,So you accept that pakistan is not welcome there. Leave then and stop supporting terrorists (read Taliban and their fathers Al quaeda) creating havoc in every corner of the world. If you become a headache, people will surely use painkillers to counter you. Thats exactly what US and allies are doing & and GOI is doing exactly the same, preventing the headache by trying to remove the root cause, al -quaeda & taliban's support structure in afganistan.

BTW, if you dont trust us just because we are Indian, its your choice. But dont expect anything from us too. GOI will keep on working what is in mutual benefit of India and Afganistan. you carry on doing what is in your (only your) interest. I just believe that strategic threats can be effectively neutralized by passive measures. there is no need to support ruthless killings ( remember how western countries effectively broke USSR without bloodshed). But a country which has seen so many bloody military coups and which is still run passively by military and a rouge intelligence agency will find it difficult to understand the importance of good diplomacy.

 

[third eye]

Why do Indians keep replying with the same crap over and over that they are there for reconstruction and bla bla bla. Pakistan doesn't believe you, that is not the argument here, we are attacking Indian terrorists. End of story.

Bunch of drama queens.

Does it matter if Pak believes India or not ? Well, to India it doesn't.

Why do Pakistanis keep talking of the same crap of ' encircling' India in Af ?

Indians are there for reconstruction. If in so doing pressure gets exerted on Pak - so much the better.

As rgds the underlined part above, if Pk could have done it , it surely would have. Punching key boards will not help.

Now, before the aove line assumed as a tacit acceptance of Indian involvement .. well the world will get used to it.

 

[Awesome]

Does it matter if Pak believes India or not ? Well, to India it doesn't.

Why do Pakistanis keep talking of the same crap of ' encircling' India in Af ?

Indians are there for reconstruction. If in so doing pressure gets exerted on Pak - so much the better.

As rgds the underlined part above, if Pk could have done it , it surely would have. Punching key boards will not help.

Now, before the aove line assumed as a tacit acceptance of Indian involvement .. well the world will get used to it.

Well if you would read the thread from the beginning the fight would probably heat up post 2011...

 

[third eye]

Well if you would read the thread from the beginning the fight would probably heat up post 2011...

So be it....

 

[Hulk]

So be it....

I agree so be it. We will see when time comes. By the way USA will reduce force no dissapear from Afghanistan.

 

[sur]

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