Pakistani Indian showdown inevitable in Afghanistan?

[chantpapipart2]

Your in no position to talk.......who the hell is India to talk about Tibet, what was East Pakistan, we can go on with a list....

Pakistan has its own interests at stake....hence we will do whatever is necessary for our rightful objectives.

Bro, India has no political support for tibet and we recognise it as a part of PRC. As far as east pakistan is concern, history is well known . Pakistan is trying to do the same in kashmir (rather unsuccsessfully) what we did in East pakistan. Moreover, we have not interfaring in BD internal affairs after it got independence. As far as your national interest is concern, you want to achieve that with the support of proxies (read terrorists) and international community will take notice of that. Also do remember it is pakistan that has started great game in 1980s and india is just responding because we don't want taliban to return. We are supporting afghan govt and Pak is supporting non- state actors.

 

[RobbieS]

At the very least we know India is already running covert ops from Afghanistan to deadly effect. Even Gates came to India and told them to be transparent with their activities in Afghanistan for Pakistan (Translation, convince Pakistan you're not up to anything wrong).

You know? But you are unable to prove it? Why is that? Your friends who are helping you take out the TTP rebels are unwilling to take your word for it. Why is that? Come out of it Asim. India helping TTP is nothing but your own fear of retribution. After the ISI helping so many insurgencies in India, its your own guilt conscious that is leading you to believe what you want to believe.

My argument is like this, if India fails to convince us, we need to attack back. Take out all known Indian intelligentsia assets placed in Afghanistan. By now ISI must have established some rudimentary sense of what is a viable target.

At the very least India's presence in Afghanistan should be destabilized. It is more than likely India will withdraw operations from Afghanistan after that.

India doesn't need to convince you. It doesn't owe you anything.

And yes, in the sub-continent ISI is the best in taking out assets. The Indian embassy bomb attack in Kabul was the premier example.

 

[RobbieS]

Come on son, you know there's better reasons as to why you came. Namely to restrict China from using Gwadar. Why need to act oblivious.

That was by far the most hilarious argument on this thread.

Ahsan, if the West wanted to undermine China they have plenty of other options at their disposal. Dumping duties, cut in military exchanges etc. A port on the Arabian sea would be the least of their worries.

 

[jeypore]

Its a dangerous situation for Pakistan, with a lot of players speaking in hushed tones and lots of nods and winks going around.

Pakistani strategists better be doing their homework, its enemies are surely busy at it.

Now, Asim you are giving India to much credit then it deserve's!!!

Well I am impressed with this hush, hush.. but India cannot even decided where to buy there future Planes!!!! Isn't that surprising for a great friendship.

Well, You know, I wished India was doing so, from my personal perspective..

 

[Raje amar]

well i am not a military expart, but i expect post 2011 there will be at least 20K Indian trups guarding northan & western borders of Afganistan, 250K ANA cantrolling the country & 100K ANA with 20K NATO forces with hitech stuff controlling the AfPak border.

 

[SMC]

Ahsan, if the West wanted to undermine China they have plenty of other options at their disposal. Dumping duties, cut in military exchanges etc. A port on the Arabian sea would be the least of their worries.

Which one of those options you mention could be explained by US gov to its public? None. Gwadar on the other hand is a big worry because it will be big help for China. It's not just another port on the arabian ocean like you say. Tell me what US has done against Al Qaeda since going to war in 2001. They haven't acted aggressively enough against Al Qaeda to show that's the reason they were there in Afghanistan. They seem to be there more against Taliban and rebuilding the country (which suggests they are doing something behind the scenes).

 

[SMC]

"In search"? Right, their satellites and drones are meant for other things.

 

[RobbieS]

Which one of those options you mention could be explained by US gov to its public? None. Gwadar on the other hand is a big worry because it will be big help for China. It's not just another port on the arabian ocean like you say. Tell me what US has done against Al Qaeda since going to war in 2001. They haven't acted aggressively enough against Al Qaeda to show that's the reason they were there in Afghanistan. They seem to be there more against Taliban and rebuilding the country (which suggests they are doing something behind the scenes).

Yaar, you are taking the conspiracy theory route now. Wasn't the US able to achieve relatively good results in Iraq? The amount of bombings and attacks have gone down significantly in the last 2 years.

But Afghanistan matters more as its the home of AQ. The US hasn't achieved the same levels of success here due to the simple fact that Afghanistan is Afghanistan . No one can rule it violently. A fact which the US and its allies are realizing now by making peace overtures to the 'good Taliban'.

And sanctions aren't hard to explain to the American public. They have seen it before. And frankly I don't remember the US public ever raising a hue and cry over sanctions. Even it its China.

 

[SMC]

Iraq was a totally different matter. Even that was obvious to those who were wake up but the general public was sleeping and in delusion.

As far as Afghanistan goes - again, they did not make a concerted effort to get to AQ and OBL (the supposed perpetrators of 9/11). Their earlier attempts were weak and futile (the attempts present on the public level). Then the whole war turned into something totally different. 9/11 was a false flag attack that could have been planned better. There's just too many holes (and evidence to support a conspiracy theory) and very questionable chain of events. Even the big article posted on popular mechanics against the conspiracy theories used by every american supporting the official story had contradictions and questionable things mentioned.

As far as sanctions go, US would have to explain why it's doing it, kind of like against Iran with the whole nuclear weapon hysteria. If it just does it for no reason, there will be a lot of questions and more conspiracy theories.

 

[graphican]

India very rightfully doesn't want to maintain troops for Afghanistan, but does want to keep a spy network open.

We want India totally out, or all the way in. Best strategy would be to start hitting Indians inside Afghanistan where they have no protection. After that either India will leave or draw itself into a long expensive war.

In my opinion, it suits Pakitan to have India fully invovled in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is surely a death-bed even for mightiest militries and India is no match to them but not any less ambitious. So Pakistan should plan the stratergy in which India would get entrapped and thus openly involve in Afghanistan and we can have India chopped with some effort, probably a lot lesser than we exerted to get Americans bleed to death

 

[PlanetWarrior]

IMO if India is working on a strategy which the Pakistanis accuse it of , namely arming insurgency in Pakistan and maintaining a spy network around Pakistan through Afghanistan, then that strategy is the best for India. It keeps the Pakistanis busy and away from Indian affairs. So why would India want to mess a great strategy by sending in troops into Afghanistan? NATO has been talking to China and India about sending in troops to strengthen Aghanistan. Both said "no thanks". India's stand was correct. The US and NATO can't just pack up and leave Afghanistan as that would make them lose face. Best thing India can do is stay out and let the west handle their own mess in Afghanistan while using their non military presence in Afghanistan to secure India's interests

 

[Gazzi]

Bro, India has no political support for tibet and we recognise it as a part of PRC. As far as east pakistan is concern, history is well known . Pakistan is trying to do the same in kashmir (rather unsuccsessfully) what we did in East pakistan. Moreover, we have not interfaring in BD internal affairs after it got independence. As far as your national interest is concern, you want to achieve that with the support of proxies (read terrorists) and international community will take notice of that. Also do remember it is pakistan that has started great game in 1980s and india is just responding because we don't want taliban to return. We are supporting afghan govt and Pak is supporting non- state actors.

get some of your fcats right first, The Northern Alliance ame to poewr and wre removed by the Taliban. Most of Af was in their control an Pakistan recognised it as did Saudi Arabia and others as the Af government.

India needs to understand just like everyone else that Af do not want democracy.......it is not their way of life and this must be respected. Something which the West and others, i.e. India do not seem to understand. They will not accet outside foreign interference and not accept other ways of life. period. So your crap about supporting a government here and there is nothing more then interference.

Secondly, India did get involved in East Pakistan and other countries like, Sri Lanka and Tibet where PRC have always accused India of involvement. India is a country with a 1/3 of its Districts with known terrorists organisations. So your crap about Pakistan helping terrorists i.e. Taliban, well maybe you have been disillusioned or not upto speed with the last 9 years where Pakistan is involved in the WoT. Naybe a little confusing your Indian mind or just too great to praise Pakistan that the pathetic Indian mind just cannot come to terms with.

As for Kashmir, call it what you will, I call them freedom fighters, period so more or less then your own reverd Bhagat Singh, and the likes......and befpre you go off on a tangent trying to derail the thread the British view of Indian freedom fighters is somewhat different, hence the Pakistani view is too different then that of India. If India cannot accept that then go swivel, I couldn't care less........

I just pray India does send a huge force into Af, field day will start.....however, I think once the US starts to withdraw, Pakistan should actively target these so called Indian consulates (the ones where hundreds of people queue to get visas for India, those ones, which is why India has them there right) and take out personnel, or rather kidnap them back over the border and deal with them there. Sooner or later Indian involvement will end and they will run with their tails between there legs just like 31/12/1999 in Kandahar

 

[Reactive Armour]

It is not easy for indian government to deploy troops anywhere outside india unless it is a UN Peacekeeping mission. Remember india is a democracy and opposition parties and people need to be convinced the logic and rationale for such a decision before a single indian soldier sets foot on a foreign land.

However, india has learnt a lesson during kandahar plane hijack episode and india will never allow a hostile force take over afganistan ever again.

The most likely possibility, however, is afganistan inviting india to set up a strategic military base just like in Tajikistan and when such a situation arises india has ample resources to do everything to keep all the troubling worms in airtight cans.

 

[EjazR]

@Gazzi

Democracy does not mean foreign intervention. It means governance with consultation with the locals which is basically an Islamic principle. The elected govt. will eventually represent what the Afghans want as corruption is controlled and elections are more transparent.

In the last attack on Indian embassy in Kabul, it was only Afghans that died, two Indians were injured but none died.

So yes bombing Indian consulates and killing more Afghans is a sure shot way to get even more ire of the Afghans for the Pakistani agencies.

 

[Gazzi]

@Gazzi

Democracy does not mean foreign intervention. It means governance with consultation with the locals which is basically an Islamic principle. The elected govt. will eventually represent what the Afghans want as corruption is controlled and elections are more transparent.

In the last attack on Indian embassy in Kabul, it was only Afghans that died, two Indians were injured but none died.

So yes bombing Indian consulates and killing more Afghans is a sure shot way to get even more ire of the Afghans for the Pakistani agencies.

What makes you think Pakistan was behind this attack Sir. Do you or India have any proof or is this just another Indian stunt. Abit like the Mubai attack evidence presented....another Indian cloud

The Islamic way is based on the Shariah which is formed by way of governance whereby a very knowledgeable scholar will take the post of leader, not the rag tag politician with a degree in organised crime from the PyongYang crime institute.

Law and courts all follow this principle and this is the way of life these people want. They don;t want the western way of life, India does and it has accepted it, get for them, Pakistan still can;t make its mind up, whatever rocks their boat, Afghanistan doesn;t want it and there is a power struggle going on, let them decide.

So before, you go into a blame game where Indians do no wrong, please think again as I too can point to numerous examples of state sponsored terrorism from India whereby state actors are involved, Col Prohit in the train bombings in India is a big one, at least Pakistani officers are retired, unlike the Indians. So leave this where it is and lets discuss the topic at hand.