Pakistani & Indian Artillery

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Also it takes 8 minutes to prepare a-100 to fire,the indian 9A52-2T smerch with upgrades takes only 2 minutes.Vital difference in counter battery fire.

Im sorry but PHL03 beat smerch in that aswell..... Also india doesnt have 9A52-2T ... it bought Smerch-M BM 9K58!.... also ur stats are wrong... even the brand new 9A52-2T uses more than 6 minutes to prepare to fire ... while our newer version of PHL03 takes the same time.. according to sources 5 minutes..

Also smerch can fire thermobaric warhead.a-100 as far as i know can't.At least no source tells it does.

PHL03 can also fire:

high explosive, fragmentation
thermobaric
incendiary
cluster munition, anti-personnel
cluster munition, anti-tank minelets
sensor fuzed, smart submunition

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Im sorry but PHL03 beat smerch in that aswell..... Also india doesnt have 9A52-2T ... it bought Smerch-M BM 9K58!.... also ur stats are wrong... even the brand new 9A52-2T uses more than 6 minutes to prepare to fire ... while our newer version of PHL03 takes the same time..




PHL03 can also fire:

high explosive, fragmentation
thermobaric
incendiary
cluster munition, anti-personnel
cluster munition, anti-tank minelets
sensor fuzed, smart submunition

Smerch also fires those rounds.But its anti tank top attack smart munition has more armour penetration of 70mm compared to 50mm.
I got the firing preparation time from this source.Its usually quite reliable.
9A52-2T Smerch Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

It has pics with it to go with the source.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Ok i see PA uses different version than original a-100.Thats why 12 tubes.
But in anti tank munition A-100 has armour penetration of 50 mm from top while smerch 70 mm.
Also Indian smerch on tatra takes only 2 minutes for fire preparation,a-100 takes 8 minutes,4 times.
As for ajeya numbers...wikipedia,jane's will confirm it.We didn't upgarde in 2 yrs.Mass Upgrade began way back around 2009.

A-100 takes 8 mintures... not PHL03... even the newest smerch takes 6 minutes to fire.. while our takes 5 minutes ... Also it depends the penetration power depends on the missiles not the MBRL system itself... so do show us a source according to which the penetration power is lesser than smerch.

Smerch also fires those rounds.But its anti tank top attack smart munition has more armour penetration of 70mm compared to 50mm.
I got the firing preparation time from this source.Its usually quite reliable.
9A52-2T Smerch Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

It has pics with it to go with the source.

Here is a link .... india bought Smerch-M BM 9K58 for 500 million dollars:



http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...J8bNpqhrqtyTNxrXg79JZOA&bvm=bv.47244034,d.Yms

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

And went through the thread,and it doesn't say anywhere it has a new turret replacing old type 59 turret.It only says ERA and modular composite package slabs were added.And turret was raised to incorporate 125 mm gun.The old type-59 turret is definitvely obsolete.
How does it make it superior to our ajeya ,the base of which is t-72m.Already a far superior development of t-55 series plus additional upgrades.

The composite armour,the FCs,the warning systems,capability to fire DU along with anti tank missiles,commander and gunner sights,autolauder,transmission etc etc.

T-72 can be taken down with a single RPG-7.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

A-100 takes 8 mintures... not PHL03... even the newest smerch takes 6 minutes to fire.. while our takes 5 minutes ... Also it depends the penetration power depends on the missiles not the MBRL system itself... so do show us a source according to which the penetration power is lesser than smerch.



Here is a link .... india bought Smerch-M BM 9K58 for 500 million dollars:



http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...J8bNpqhrqtyTNxrXg79JZOA&bvm=bv.47244034,d.Yms

I think your right on fire preparation 2 mins seems too low.
But on penetration.
A-100 MRL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SMERCH 300mm MLRS
Smerch munitions can penetrate 70 mm to 120 mm armour of the top of vehicles.Thats big difference for vehicle top which is lightest armoured.A-100 only 50 mm.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

The composite armour,the FCs,the warning systems,capability to fire DU along with anti tank missiles,commander and gunner sights,autolauder,transmission etc etc.

T-72 can be taken down with a single RPG-7.

Right t-72 can be taken down by single rpg-7,don't be childish.There are videos of syrian war with t-72s hit by rpgs moving.And syria uses basic t-72 monkey models,that are were only recently proposed to being upgraded to m1 standrad.T-72s with ERA can't be penetrated squat.Also these aren't the basic monkey model,they are upgraded to t-72m1 model in early 1990s.
The t-72m1 has thicker composite armour compared to basic t-72.The ajeya upgrade is done on top of that.

Early 2010 source.Even before this DRDO had begun upgradation programme.
India's L&T, Raytheon, Join on T-72 Tank Upgrade

India's L&T, Raytheon, Join on T-72 Tank Upgrade

NEW DELHI - U.S. based Raytheon has joined hands with India's private sector defense major Larsen & Toubro (L&T) to bid for the Indian Army's T-72 tank upgrade. The announcement was made at DEFEXPO India 2010, currently on show here Feb 15-18.

M. V. Kotwal, L&T's senior executive vice president, heavy engineering, said so far only a memorandum of understanding has been inked between L&T and Raytheon on submitting a bid for the T-72 upgrade. Under the proposal, Raytheon will provide infrared imaging sights and electronics to improve targeting accuracy and increase tank lethality.

"L&T is the only Indian company in the private sector that is leading a team for the T-72 upgrade program. The L&T and Raytheon combination has what it takes to deliver on such an important program," Kotwal said.

The Army proposes to upgrade more than 1,400 T-72 tanks for more than $1.5 billion. The upgrade will include a new fire control system, a thermal imager, new radios, a fiber-optic gyro-based navigation system and a laser warning system. Improvements also will be made to the tank's nuclear, biological and chemical protection.

Fritz Treyz, vice president, Raytheon Network Centric Systems India Operations, said, "together, we are exploring other opportunities to provide net-centric modernization defense solutions to meet growing demands in India and the global marketplace."



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T-72m1 ajeya is equivalent to poland pt-91.

The ajeya is an upgrade of the T-72,zarrar is an upgrade of t-55.A generational difference between 2 tanks.t-72 is incremental development of the t-54/t-55 series .

The composite armour,the FCs,the warning systems,capability to fire DU along with anti tank missiles,commander and gunner sights,autolauder,transmission etc etc.

T-72 can be taken down with a single RPG-7.

The new ajeya has all of those.Except DU indian/russian T-series tanks fire tungsten core rounds due to crew health being affected by DU rounds[don't ask me,russian explanation].The penetration is similar.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I think your right on fire preparation 2 mins seems too low.
But on penetration.
A-100 MRL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SMERCH 300mm MLRS
Smerch munitions can penetrate 70 mm to 120 mm armour of the top of vehicles.Thats big difference for vehicle top which is lightest armoured.A-100 only 50 mm.

You want us to believe in wikipedia? seriously man?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Also i showed u link with picture of indian 9A52-2T on tatra trucks.

You want us to believe in wikipedia? seriously man?

You have a source for the armour penetration?Till we have another contradictory source..i'll stick with it.Coz in all other respects the wiki article on a-100 is very accurate,why should it be wrong on a single point.

 

[IND151]

Artillery [edit]

Name Type Quantity Origin Notes
M777 Howitzer United States 145 ultra-light howitzers to be procured.[34][35] Procurement delayed due to cuts in the defence budget.[36]
Haubits FH77/B Howitzer 200[37] Sweden 155 mm gun made by Bofors. 410 acquired from 1986–1991.[38][39] 200 left in service.[37] An indigenous version is under development.[40]
M-46 Howitzer 180 Soviet Union
Israel M-46 130 mm howitzer guns upgraded to 155 mm standard by Soltam. [41]
D-30 Howitzer 550 Soviet Union Being replaced by the M-46.
METAMORPHOSIS 155 mm GUN Howitzer India Indian upgrade of M46 Howitzer
M101 howitzer Howitzer United States [42]
75mm Mountain Howitzer Howitzer 900 United Kingdom In Reserve[43]
88mm 25 Pounder Howitzer
Field gun 800 United Kingdom In Reserve also used for Training[43]
180 mm gun S-23 Heavy Gun 100 Soviet Union [44]
M-46 Field gun 900 Soviet Union 130 mm field gun. 550 purchased. 100 used with the Catapult self-propelled gun. Some to be upgraded to M-46 howitzers.[27]
100mm M-1944 Field gun 350 Soviet Union In Reserve
BL 5.5 inch Medium Gun Field gun 150 United Kingdom Retired.
Indian Field Gun MK 1/2/3 Field gun 600–1300 India 105mm gun Being replaced by the M-46122 mm
Light Field Gun Field gun 700+ India 105mm gun. Being phased out.
100 mm field gun M1944 (BS-3) Field gun 350 Soviet Union In Reserve[43]
76 mm mountain gun M48 Mountain gun 215 Yugoslavia [43]
OTO Melara Mod 56 Mountain gun 50 Italy Retired.
Sprut anti-tank gun Anti-tank Gun Soviet Union
FV433 Abbot SPG Self-propelled artillery ~80 United Kingdom 105 mm howitzer. To be replaced following selection of new system.
M-46 Catapult Self-propelled artillery 100 [45] India 130 mm howitzer mounted on a Vijayanta hull. ~80 in storage. To be replaced following selection of new system.
2S1 Gvozdika Self-propelled artillery 110 Soviet Union
Smerch 9K58 MBRL Multiple rocket launcher 62 Russia 300 mm multiple rocket launch system.
Pinaka MBRL Multiple rocket launcher 80+ India 214 mm multiple rocket launch system. Replacing the 122 mm BM-21.[46] Still in Production
BM-21 Multiple rocket launcher 150+ Soviet Union Modernized rockets with range of 40 km was purchased from Russia. To be replaced by Pinaka.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...pYDACA&usg=AFQjCNG2at1w6OZyctDfHvM4NKk9fWaD2Q







Total-6622

+6700 plus mortars

OFB E1 81mm
L16 81mm mortar Mortar
5000+



120mm AM-50 Mortar
HE Bomb
1500+

160mm Tampella Mortar
200+



Total-:13,322

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Artillery of India [edit]



BL 10 pounder Mountain Gun crew in action, East Africa, World War I
Mortars
120 mm E1 light mortar
Anti-aircraft guns
All Weather Air Defence Gun System (AWADGS)
40mm Bofors L/70 anti-aircraft gun (upgraded variant)
40mm Bofors L/60 anti-aircraft gun (upgraded variant)
23mm ZSU-23-2 anti-aircraft gun
Field artillery
105mm Indian Field Gun
105mm Light Field Gun
122mm D-30 Howitzer
130mm M-46 Field Gun
155mm E1 Metamorphosis gun 45 Caliber Howitzer
155mm Haubits FH77/B Howitzer
Self-propelled artillery
105mm FV433 Abbot self-propelled gun
130mm M-46 Catapult self-propelled gun
Rocket artillery
122mm BM-21 Grad Multiple Barrel Rocket Launcher
214mm Pinaka Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher
300mm BM-30 Smerch Multiple Barrel Rocket Launcher

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...fmaLyPAsvkZOsDzk-1nNYLQ&bvm=bv.47244034,d.bmk

Except for rocket arty and few bofors that is an embarassing list for army of our size.Testament to our politicians skill in corruption and then letting army suffer for it.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Right t-72 can be taken down by single rpg-7,don't be childish.There are videos of syrian war with t-72s hit by rpgs moving.And syria uses basic t-72 monkey models,that are were only recently proposed to being upgraded to m1 standrad.T-72s with ERA can't be penetrated squat.Also these aren't the basic monkey model,they are upgraded to t-72m1 model in early 1990s.

Syria doesnt use monkey models like the "lion of babylon" or asad e babil used by Iraq..... they use russian made t-72s....

The t-72m1 has thicker composite armour compared to basic t-72.The ajeya upgrade is done on top of that.

Early 2010 source.Even before this DRDO had begun upgradation programme.
India's L&T, Raytheon, Join on T-72 Tank Upgrade

India's L&T, Raytheon, Join on T-72 Tank Upgrade

NEW DELHI - U.S. based Raytheon has joined hands with India's private sector defense major Larsen & Toubro (L&T) to bid for the Indian Army's T-72 tank upgrade. The announcement was made at DEFEXPO India 2010, currently on show here Feb 15-18.

M. V. Kotwal, L&T's senior executive vice president, heavy engineering, said so far only a memorandum of understanding has been inked between L&T and Raytheon on submitting a bid for the T-72 upgrade. Under the proposal, Raytheon will provide infrared imaging sights and electronics to improve targeting accuracy and increase tank lethality.

"L&T is the only Indian company in the private sector that is leading a team for the T-72 upgrade program. The L&T and Raytheon combination has what it takes to deliver on such an important program," Kotwal said.

The Army proposes to upgrade more than 1,400 T-72 tanks for more than $1.5 billion. The upgrade will include a new fire control system, a thermal imager, new radios, a fiber-optic gyro-based navigation system and a laser warning system. Improvements also will be made to the tank's nuclear, biological and chemical protection.

Fritz Treyz, vice president, Raytheon Network Centric Systems India Operations, said, "together, we are exploring other opportunities to provide net-centric modernization defense solutions to meet growing demands in India and the global marketplace."



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T-72m1 ajeya is equivalent to poland pt-91.

So how exactly is it better than AZ keeping in mind the upgrades i have stated above?

The ajeya is an upgrade of the T-72,zarrar is an upgrade of t-55.A generational difference between 2 tanks.t-72 is incremental development of the t-54/t-55 series .

Agreed altough Type-59s were produced till 1980s.... but than again AZ has massive improvements making it a new mbt... while gain an additional weight of 4-5 tons...

The new ajeya has all of those.Except DU indian/russian T-series tanks fire tungsten core rounds due to crew health being affected by DU rounds[don't ask me,russian explanation].The penetration is similar.

Not really..... tungsten is inferior to DU.... and its not safe either..... thts one of the reasons US banned it... bcoz it increases the chances of cancer.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Also i showed u link with picture of indian 9A52-2T on tatra trucks.

Yes, i see... maybe the later deal worth 250 million was for newer smerch version... unlike the previous one..

You have a source for the armour penetration?Till we have another contradictory source..i'll stick with it.Coz in all other respects the wiki article on a-100 is very accurate,why should it be wrong on a single point.

The wikipedia page is about A-100 not PHL03.... and even that says tht A-100 is much more accurate than smerch.

P.S= i will get you the answer about the penetration power of PHL03 anti tank sub munitions soon.

Artillery [edit]

Name Type Quantity Origin Notes
M777 Howitzer United States 145 ultra-light howitzers to be procured.[34][35] Procurement delayed due to cuts in the defence budget.[36]
Haubits FH77/B Howitzer 200[37] Sweden 155 mm gun made by Bofors. 410 acquired from 1986–1991.[38][39] 200 left in service.[37] An indigenous version is under development.[40]
M-46 Howitzer 180 Soviet Union
Israel M-46 130 mm howitzer guns upgraded to 155 mm standard by Soltam. [41]
D-30 Howitzer 550 Soviet Union Being replaced by the M-46.
METAMORPHOSIS 155 mm GUN Howitzer India Indian upgrade of M46 Howitzer
M101 howitzer Howitzer United States [42]
75mm Mountain Howitzer Howitzer 900 United Kingdom In Reserve[43]
88mm 25 Pounder Howitzer
Field gun 800 United Kingdom In Reserve also used for Training[43]
180 mm gun S-23 Heavy Gun 100 Soviet Union [44]
M-46 Field gun 900 Soviet Union 130 mm field gun. 550 purchased. 100 used with the Catapult self-propelled gun. Some to be upgraded to M-46 howitzers.[27]
100mm M-1944 Field gun 350 Soviet Union In Reserve
BL 5.5 inch Medium Gun Field gun 150 United Kingdom Retired.
Indian Field Gun MK 1/2/3 Field gun 600–1300 India 105mm gun Being replaced by the M-46122 mm
Light Field Gun Field gun 700+ India 105mm gun. Being phased out.
100 mm field gun M1944 (BS-3) Field gun 350 Soviet Union In Reserve[43]
76 mm mountain gun M48 Mountain gun 215 Yugoslavia [43]
OTO Melara Mod 56 Mountain gun 50 Italy Retired.
Sprut anti-tank gun Anti-tank Gun Soviet Union
FV433 Abbot SPG Self-propelled artillery ~80 United Kingdom 105 mm howitzer. To be replaced following selection of new system.
M-46 Catapult Self-propelled artillery 100 [45] India 130 mm howitzer mounted on a Vijayanta hull. ~80 in storage. To be replaced following selection of new system.
2S1 Gvozdika Self-propelled artillery 110 Soviet Union
Smerch 9K58 MBRL Multiple rocket launcher 62 Russia 300 mm multiple rocket launch system.
Pinaka MBRL Multiple rocket launcher 80+ India 214 mm multiple rocket launch system. Replacing the 122 mm BM-21.[46] Still in Production
BM-21 Multiple rocket launcher 150+ Soviet Union Modernized rockets with range of 40 km was purchased from Russia. To be replaced by Pinaka.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...pYDACA&usg=AFQjCNG2at1w6OZyctDfHvM4NKk9fWaD2Q







Total-6622

Do you think its impressive?

 

[OrionHunter]

Here's the comparison straight from GFP (Global Firepower), updated in Dec 2012, which is an authentic source.

Pakistan

SP Guns - 1065
Towed guns - 3197
MLRS(Multiple Launch Rocket System) - 172
Mortars - 3200



India

SP Guns - 330
Towed guns - 6585
MLRS(Multiple Launch Rocket System) - 292
Mortars - 5000

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Syria doesnt use monkey models like the "lion of babylon" or asad e babil used by Iraq..... they use russian made t-72s....




So how exactly is it better than AZ keeping in mind the upgrades i have stated above?


Agreed altough Type-59s were produced till 1980s.... but than again AZ has massive improvements making it a new mbt... while gain an additional weight of 4-5 tons...



Not really..... tungsten is inferior to DU.... and its not safe either..... thts one of the reasons US banned it... bcoz it increases the chances of cancer.

Monkey model means basic export model which purposedly had lower base armour,this was practiced in cold war times when syria acquired these tanks.After cold war these practices ceased.India got its t-72s upgarded with advanced composite armour t-72m1 standard after cold war ended in early 1990s.Ajeya is second upgrade.

2.Al zarrar still uses type-59 turret,no matter how much external armour ptiles it is armoured with.That makes its base armour far far weaker than armour of upgraded t-72 m1.

3.A common misperception,normal uranium is softer than tungsten.A hardening technique allows very slight better performance.
DU is used because its cheaper than machinized tungsten.But its also toxic.Training is never done with DU rounds.
Also india does have stockpile of DU rounds for t-series.It just isn't operational until in crisis.Same in russia.
''It is thought that between 17 and 20 countries have weapons incorporating depleted uranium in their arsenals. They include the U.S., the UK, France, Russia, China, India, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Bahrain, Egypt, Kuwait, Pakistan, Thailand, Iraq and Taiwan. Iran also has performed wide research on DU penetrators since 2001. DU ammunition is manufactured in 18 countries. Only the US and the UK have acknowledged using DU weapons.''

Vasiliy Fofanov's Modern Russian Armour Page
Here go to the 125 mm APFSDS rounds of russian tanks.
You'll find several DU rounds are available.But performance of tungsten rounds are by no means ineffective.

 

[IND151]

Yes, i see... maybe the later deal worth 250 million was for newer smerch version... unlike the previous one..



The wikipedia page is about A-100 but PHL03.... also even if we take a "wiki" page as a reliable source... than do you admit that the A-100 has better accuracy than smerch as written in the page?


P.S= i will get you the answer about the penetration power of PHL03 anti tank sub munitions soon.



Do you think its impressive?

I just posted info

And I do know that we need to improve our artillery

@DESERT FIGHTER> I have updated my post