Pakistani & Indian Artillery

[AUSTERLITZ]

Can get more if we increase number of Panter and also get PLZ-45 and more MRLS from China and some Artillery from Turkey and if USA gives some of the artillery which it used in Afghanistan that can be good

Arre bhai kitna artillery loge?
Remmeber every gun u procure is one u'll have to supply with ammunition and shells in war,more guns more logistics pressure.The guns alone mean little if u don't have huge ammunition stockpile to make best consistent use of it.
PA has very very impressive artillery force for the moment with its budget.It should be a lesson for IA planners how to get the procurements done.

 

[Zarvan]

Arre bhai kitna artillery loge?
Remmeber every gun u procure is one u'll have to supply with ammunition and shells in war,more guns more logistics pressure.The guns alone mean little if u don't have huge ammunition stockpile to make best consistent use of it.
PA has very very impressive artillery force for the moment with its budget.It should be a lesson for IA planners how to get the procurements done.

Sir we have some really old Artillery and need replacement and we have only one type of MRL and need few more guns

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Can get more if we increase number of Panter and also get PLZ-45 and more MRLS from China and some Artillery from Turkey and if USA gives some of the artillery which it used in Afghanistan that can be good

PA already got second hand m109a5 from usa at dirt cheap prices,they got around 110 ,i think they want 290 odd.You already have panter in small numbers.Its a good howitzer based on turkish modification to singapore fh-2000.But its towed howitzer.PLZ-45 is better than m-109a5 which has small range,so its good for PA as high end Self propelled tracked howitzer.But all these types will create logistics nightmare so i don't think PA will buy it.Also the SH-1 wheeled SP arty is even better than plz-45 in performance ,except its not armoured and mounted on truck and PA already has around 90.
Plus ur already licence building a-100 smerch copy from china,so MBRL is also progressing well.What more u want?

Sir we have some really old Artillery and need replacement and we have only one type of MRL and need few more guns

Stop saying sir all the time man,this is a forum to hang out and have fun and as i told u.Go do a google search on list of equipment of pakistan army and then indian army.See the difference in artillery.What ur saying isn't true.Only weakness is m109a5 which is main SP arty of pakistan has extended range of 30 km which isn't good enough against global standard of 40km.But this hardly matters as india has a extremely feeble and obsolete SP arty force.

 

[Armstrong]

PA already got second hand m109a5 from usa at dirt cheap prices,they got around 110 ,i think they want 290 odd.You already have panter in small numbers.Its a good howitzer based on turkish modification to singapore fh-2000.But its towed howitzer.PLZ-45 is better than m-109a5 which has small range,so its good for PA as high end Self propelled tracked howitzer.But all these types will create logistics nightmare so i don't think PA will buy it.Also the SH-1 wheeled SP arty is even better than plz-45 in performance ,except its not armoured and mounted on truck and PA already has around 90.
Plus ur already licence building a-100 smerch copy from china,so MBRL is also progressing well.What more u want?

Eik plate of Stuffed Chicken Breast with Pineapple Sauce along with a Mint Margarita please !

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Eik plate of Stuffed Chicken Breast with Pineapple Sauce along with a Mint Margarita please !

Pineapple sauce nahi chalega,yeh western khana ho gaya.Butter naan,boti kabaab,chicken bharta,beer...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The upgrade program for the T-72s have been going on for quite a while, these are not major overhauls you seem to forget.

Al Zarrars are a Chinese copy of the T-55. A few upgrades here and there don't change the fact that these tanks are of 1960s vintage.

Yes in 2 years you overhauled 1900-2000 tanks? as for ajeya...how many of them have been upgraded? around 1000?... As for AZ being a chinese T-55 or Type-59... Over 50 major modifications make it a new tank... a brief summary of the upgrades:

The main modifications include improvements to armament, ballistic and armor protection, the fire control system, mobility and GPS. The fire control system features automatic loading, computerized image stabilization and thermal imaging for day and night combat.

• 125 mm smoothbore tank gun with an auto frettaged, chrome-plated gun barrel.
• Ability to fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS rounds as well as anti-tank guided missiles
• Ability to fire a Pakistani DU (depleted uranium) round,
• Automatic loader
• Dual-axis stabilization system and thermal imaging sights for the commander and gunner
• Laser range-finder for accurate range information and ballistics computer to improve accuracy
• Improved gun control system is also fitted.
• Power to weight ratio of 18.3 hp/tonne
• Maximum speed of up to 65Km/hr
• Modified torsion bar suspension system to improve crew comfort.
• Modular composite armour and explosive reactive armour
• Pakistani ATCOP LTS-1 laser threat warning system. The ATCOP LTS-1 warns the crew when the tank is the target of a laser designator or a laser rangefinder.
• Smoke grenade launchers
• Automatic fire-extinguishing and explosion suppression system to improve crew survivability.
• New turret
• New engine
• Ability to fire ATMs

etc etc...


T-59:

AZ:

Without ERA:

Can get more if we increase number of Panter and also get PLZ-45 and more MRLS from China and some Artillery from Turkey and if USA gives some of the artillery which it used in Afghanistan that can be good

Panters,AR1A-100s are being produced under ToT... While an indigenous SPG is under development ... look up the 2019 arty modernisation plan of PA..

 

[Zarvan]

Yes in 2 years you overhauled 1900-2000 tanks? as for ajeya...how many of them have been upgraded? around 1000?... As for AZ being a chinese T-55 or Type-59... Over 50 major modifications make it a new tank... a brief summary of the upgrades:

The main modifications include improvements to armament, ballistic and armor protection, the fire control system, mobility and GPS. The fire control system features automatic loading, computerized image stabilization and thermal imaging for day and night combat.

• 125 mm smoothbore tank gun with an auto frettaged, chrome-plated gun barrel.
• Ability to fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS rounds as well as anti-tank guided missiles
• Ability to fire a Pakistani DU (depleted uranium) round,
• Automatic loader
• Dual-axis stabilization system and thermal imaging sights for the commander and gunner
• Laser range-finder for accurate range information and ballistics computer to improve accuracy
• Improved gun control system is also fitted.
• Power to weight ratio of 18.3 hp/tonne
• Maximum speed of up to 65Km/hr
• Modified torsion bar suspension system to improve crew comfort.
• Modular composite armour and explosive reactive armour
• Pakistani ATCOP LTS-1 laser threat warning system. The ATCOP LTS-1 warns the crew when the tank is the target of a laser designator or a laser rangefinder.
• Smoke grenade launchers
• Automatic fire-extinguishing and explosion suppression system to improve crew survivability.
• New turret
• New engine
• Ability to fire ATMs

etc etc...


T-59:

AZ:

Without ERA:

Panters,AR1A-100s are being produced under ToT... While an indigenous SPG is under development ... look up the 2019 arty modernisation plan of PA..

Sir where is that plan please post the link

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

PA already got second hand m109a5 from usa at dirt cheap prices,they got around 110 ,i think they want 290 odd.You already have panter in small numbers.Its a good howitzer based on turkish modification to singapore fh-2000.But its towed howitzer.PLZ-45 is better than m-109a5 which has small range,so its good for PA as high end Self propelled tracked howitzer.But all these types will create logistics nightmare so i don't think PA will buy it.Also the SH-1 wheeled SP arty is even better than plz-45 in performance ,except its not armoured and mounted on truck and PA already has around 90.
Plus ur already licence building a-100 smerch copy from china,so MBRL is also progressing well.What more u want?

1)115 M-109A5s were bought while we already had this version and hundreds of others were upgraded to A5 status... and have a range of 35k.

2)Panter howitzers are being produced under ToT and we have raised quiet alot of regiments...its not a fully towed howitzer it is mobile..

3)Plz-45 are 155mm so no problem of logistics..

4)We bought 92 SH-1s.

5)ARA1-100 has much more range than the faulty smerch india bought.

6)We also produce KR-122MM with a range of 45KM.

7)An indigenous arty system was shown during IDEAS exhibition..

Stop saying sir all the time man,this is a forum to hang out and have fun and as i told u.Go do a google search on list of equipment of pakistan army and then indian army.See the difference in artillery.What ur saying isn't true.Only weakness is m109a5 which is main SP arty of pakistan has extended range of 30 km which isn't good enough against global standard of 40km.But this hardly matters as india has a extremely feeble and obsolete SP arty force.

Our arty is overall much better than indian arty... whose best system is the decades old bofors or the american towed howitzers being acquired by india... but than again... so is Pakistan.

Sir where is that plan please post the link

Paa ji il give you a hint ... by 2019 all PA arty replaced by 155mm systems.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Yes in 2 years you overhauled 1900-2000 tanks? as for ajeya...how many of them have been upgraded? around 1000?... As for AZ being a chinese T-55 or Type-59... Over 50 major modifications make it a new tank... a brief summary of the upgrades:

The main modifications include improvements to armament, ballistic and armor protection, the fire control system, mobility and GPS. The fire control system features automatic loading, computerized image stabilization and thermal imaging for day and night combat.

• 125 mm smoothbore tank gun with an auto frettaged, chrome-plated gun barrel.
• Ability to fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS rounds as well as anti-tank guided missiles
• Ability to fire a Pakistani DU (depleted uranium) round,
• Automatic loader
• Dual-axis stabilization system and thermal imaging sights for the commander and gunner
• Laser range-finder for accurate range information and ballistics computer to improve accuracy
• Improved gun control system is also fitted.
• Power to weight ratio of 18.3 hp/tonne
• Maximum speed of up to 65Km/hr
• Modified torsion bar suspension system to improve crew comfort.
• Modular composite armour and explosive reactive armour
• Pakistani ATCOP LTS-1 laser threat warning system. The ATCOP LTS-1 warns the crew when the tank is the target of a laser designator or a laser rangefinder.
• Smoke grenade launchers
• Automatic fire-extinguishing and explosion suppression system to improve crew survivability.
• New turret
• New engine
• Ability to fire ATMs

etc etc...


T-59:

AZ:

Without ERA:

Panters,AR1A-100s are being produced under ToT... While an indigenous SPG is under development ... look up the 2019 arty modernisation plan of PA..

Agree with you on state of indian and pak arty,except smerch isn't 'faulty' its more accurate with less range.The a-100 is smerch copy.
As for al zarrar truth remains that its turret is still same as type-59 with just a layer of modular armour/era slapped on.
As for indian t-72s FYi until 2009 672 t-72s had been upgraded.From 2009 the 1300 have begun upgradation.possibly around 400 have completed the process.
As for the other 400 odd t-72s out of indian fleet of 2400,they will not be upgraded and replaced by new tanks altogether.India will only upgrade around 1950 odd,and that may later be reduced if arjun and t-90 orders are increased.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Agree with you on state of indian and pak arty,except smerch isn't 'faulty' its more accurate with less range.The a-100 is smerch copy.

Well they were faulty ... maybe you got em "fixed" as for A-100 it has much more range than smerch aswell..

As for al zarrar truth remains that its turret is still same as type-59 with just a layer of modular armour/era slapped on.

Yes another myth you got from MP.net.... slapping armour doesnt make a turret biggermor change the shape !

As for indian t-72s FYi until 2009 672 t-72s had been upgraded.From 2009 the 1300 have begun upgradation.possibly around 400 have completed the process.
As for the other 400 odd t-72s out of indian fleet of 2400,they will not be upgraded and replaced by new tanks altogether.India will only upgrade around 1950 odd,and that may later be reduced if arjun and t-90 orders are increased.

The news about 80+% indian tanks being night blind came in late 2010-2011! so no cookie for you.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Well they were faulty ... maybe you got em "fixed" as for A-100 it has much more range than smerch aswell..



Yes another myth you got from MP.net.... slapping armour doesnt make a turret biggermor change the shape !



The news about 80+% indian tanks being night blind came in late 2010-2011! so no cookie for you.

1.Smerch has 12 rocket tubes,a-100 only 10.
Smerch has better accuracy due to superior fire control system the vivari.
Smerch has special self guided anti tank munitions to devastate armour formations.A-100 doesn't.'s munition has far less armour penetration capability.
Smerch has 90 km range to a-100 claimed 120.[though actual range is said to be around 100 km]
A-100 was such a weapon that PLA didn't take it,it instead used PHL-03[upgraded smerch copy] with reduced approx 100 km range.Now why is that?
Smerch also has minimal range of 20 km while a-100 has min range of 40 km.

2.Show me a source saying al zarrar has new turret,and not add on ERA and modular armour package.Till then its still just a upgunned souped up t-55.

3.You are right.My numbers were incorrect for that timeframe ,that many ajeyas were not upgraded then but a couple of yrs later.Right now i checked 968 t-72m1 ajeyas have been upgraded.
Here 2010 thread.http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/67983-indian-army-t-72-tanks-now-have-night-vision.html

This report was from defence minister to parliament,so its truth is absolute.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Also it takes 8 minutes to prepare a-100 to fire,the indian 9A52-2T smerch with upgrades takes only 2 minutes.Vital difference in counter battery fire.

Also smerch can fire thermobaric warhead.a-100 as far as i know can't.At least no source tells it does.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

1.Smerch has 12 rocket tubes,a-100 only 10.

Are you sure?

During Azm-e-Nau Exercise:

Smerch has better accuracy due to superior fire control system the vivari.

Read about The target acquisition and fire-control system elements include the CETC-built 702D meteorological radar station and SLC-2 WLC.

Smerch has special self guided anti tank munitions to devastate armour formations.A-100 doesn't.'s munition has far less armour penetration capability.

Again ignorant rant... A-100 also has the above mentioned capabilities..

Smerch has 90 km range to a-100 claimed 120.[though actual range is said to be around 100 km]
A-100 was such a weapon that PLA didn't take it,it instead used PHL-03[upgraded smerch copy] with reduced approx 100 km range.Now why is that?

We also use the same version but a more advanced version of PHL03... unlike the 10 tubed basic A-100.. as for the range is around 150 km.

Smerch also has minimal range of 20 km while a-100 has min range of 40 km.

Lol tht makes it superior? what abt the salvo time,preperation time etc ... A-100 beats .. smerch in that..

2.Show me a source saying al zarrar has new turret,and not add on ERA and modular armour package.

Go through this thread:

http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...z73X8MJ5wStuz0Ikz8nth8Q&bvm=bv.47244034,d.bGE

3.You are right.My numbers were incorrect for that timeframe ,that many ajeyas were not upgraded then but a couple of yrs later.Right now i checked 968 t-72m1 ajeyas have been upgraded.

And you upgraded 968 t-72s in 2-3 years? thats like 1 tank upgrade per day.... can i see a source please...

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Are you sure?

During Azm-e-Nau Exercise:

Read about The target acquisition and fire-control system elements include the CETC-built 702D meteorological radar station and SLC-2 WLC.



Again ignorant rant... A-100 also has the above mentioned capabilities..


We also use the same version... unlike the 10 tubed basic A-100.. as for the range is around 150 km.



Lol tht makes it superior? what abt the salvo time etc ... A-100 beats .. smerch in that..



Go through this thread:

http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...z73X8MJ5wStuz0Ikz8nth8Q&bvm=bv.47244034,d.bGE



And you upgraded 968 t-72s in 2-3 years? thats like 1 tank upgrade per day.... can i see a source please...

Ok i see PA uses different version than original a-100.Thats why 12 tubes.
But in anti tank munition A-100 has armour penetration of 50 mm from top while smerch 70 mm.
Also Indian smerch on tatra takes only 2 minutes for fire preparation,a-100 takes 8 minutes,4 times.
As for ajeya numbers...wikipedia,jane's will confirm it.We didn't upgarde in 2 yrs.Mass Upgrade began way back around 2009.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

And went through the thread,and it doesn't say anywhere it has a new turret replacing old type 59 turret.It only says ERA and modular composite package slabs were added.And turret was raised to incorporate 125 mm gun.The old type-59 turret is definitvely obsolete.
How does it make it superior to our ajeya ,the base of which is t-72m.Already a far superior development of t-55 series plus additional upgrades.