Pakistani corner

[haviZsultan]

So the dead in the graves are now Rasools?


And your reference is http://www.hazrat-ali.com/concept-of-intermediation-in-islaam.html ?

Is this author higher than the Quran or Hadith?


So someone apart from Prophet/ Sahaba (who never did this) stated and started it?


It was neither the Prophet who said this nor the sahaba...It was neither the Prophet nor the Sahaba who did this....

This is not a hadith it is someone said this and that (waysay tou kehnay walay bohot kuch kehtay hain apna hi mazhab bana laytay hain)...Kind of people who worship dead justifying it...Kindly show me from the Quran that this is allowed! When even ALLAH and HIS prophet didnt allow it how can random people allow it?

I also avoid these discusssions coz the one who has made up his mind wont get it changed no matter what you say! However, 1 word of advice, if it is not from Quran and Hadith....it is not from Islam (Hold firmly to the ROPE of Islam not to OTHER people's ego/ saying/ harkatain!)

Talon when did you grow so religious? You are always discussing religious themes now.

 

[Mutakalim]

So the dead in the graves are now Rasools?

They are not dead in graves. They are rasools and will be till the end of time.

And your reference is http://www.hazrat-ali.com/concept-of-intermediation-in-islaam.html ?

Is this author higher than the Quran or Hadith?

No my reference is not this site but Tafsir Ibn e Kathir. Took the translation from some other site not this one. No one has said that this author is higher than Quran and Hadith. There are other references from Shariah which suggest the same thing.

 

[Dubious]

They are rasools and will be till the end of time.

The saints and bab like log are Rasools?

They are not dead? Even Abu Bakar who was most beloved companion of Prophet said Prophet left us....even Aisha was declared a widow....THAT was a prophet....You need to get your concept right...People die...No one is eternal ....their deeds are the ONLY thing that is eternal!

 

[Mutakalim]

The saints and bab like log are Rasools?

No. They are just saints.

 

[Dubious]

Talon when did you grow so religious? You are always discussing religious themes now.

I have always been religious....

And I am not ALWAYS discussing it...But if someone throws an idea, they should be able to support it from the Quran not COZ HE SAID it or stuff like that!

It is sad that hindus openly promote their religion and culture all over from their movies (even some movie titles have Hindu names) / dances (Hindu religious dances) / songs (calling out Ram in their songs) to their habits even on this forum but we Muslims are asked not to even question nor address our religion? Can you tell me...if not us who else will talk about it? False propaganda? If we dont clarify the doubts who else will - Fake claimers of knowledge?

Just logically think about it...We dont know our religion coz it has become a taboo...it has become a taboo to correct someone and then we wonder why so many deviation such ISIS arise! No one wanted to explain the correct stuff all over the media you hear BS being spread in the name of Islam, you see ISIS sympathizers misquoting and everything ....Why are they allowed to delude people but it is wrong to clarify the stance? Why is it wrong or a taboo to pass the correct msg but ok to get BS floating about?

No. They are just saints.

And that thread was about a baba g....and you are quoting Quran where it clearly says YOU (MUHAMMAD) for everyone...and calling them Rasools and stuff....

BTW, has Prophet Ibrahim come to anyone's dream? He is also a prophet, right? Also a Rasool...Has Prophet Adam come to anyone's dream? Then why Prophet Muhammad is used all the time? Esp since you say the verse is not for that time when it clearly said you (addressing Muhammad)?

 

[Mutakalim]

So someone apart from Prophet/ Sahaba (who never did this) stated and started it?

The author just provides the example.

It was neither the Prophet who said this nor the sahaba...It was neither the Prophet nor the Sahaba who did this....

This is not a hadith it is someone said this and that (waysay tou kehnay walay bohot kuch kehtay hain apna hi mazhab bana laytay hain)...Kind of people who worship dead justifying it...Kindly show me from the Quran that this is allowed! When even ALLAH and HIS prophet didnt allow it how can random people allow it?

I would just provide references. As translations are not readily available.

I also avoid these discusssions coz the one who has made up his mind wont get it changed no matter what you say! However, 1 word of advice, if it is not from Quran and Hadith....it is not from Islam (Hold firmly to the ROPE of Islam not to OTHER people's ego/ saying/ harkatain!)

Now just read the other stance.
Wait as compiling so many references takes time.

 

[Dubious]

No my reference is not this site but Tafsir Ibn e Kathir. Took the translation from some other site not this one. No one has said that this author is higher than Quran and Hadith. There are other references from Shariah which suggest the same thing.

These are references from someone's thinking....Khathir never saw Prophet...He was born way after the Prophet was dead....

He can only explain certain things rest are his opinions...Not Shariah!

The term sharia comes from the Arabic language term sharīʿah, which means a body of moral and religious law derived from religious prophecy, as opposed to human legislation.

The author just provides the example.

Yes but he failed to see the "you" (reference to Muhammad no one else)...just like story of Ibrahim, Musa were references to their times.....

@SaG E Jillani88 look brother, I dont agree with it...However, I have no problem with you choosing what you wish...it is your choice

So I guess it is best to drop the topic as 1 TT has already taken this issue

 

[Mutakalim]

Yes but he failed to see the "you" (reference to Muhammad no one else)...just like story of Ibrahim, Musa were references to their times.....

@SaG E Jillani88 look brother, I dont agree with it...However, I have no problem with you choosing what you wish...it is your choice

So I guess it is best to drop the topic as 1 TT has already taken this issue

Books are filled with these issue and are discussed to death. I think this discussion should end now. Just wanted to give you references so that you can see other side of the coin. It will take lot of time.

 

[Mutakalim]

It was neither the Prophet who said this nor the sahaba...It was neither the Prophet nor the Sahaba who did this....

This is not a hadith it is someone said this and that (waysay tou kehnay walay bohot kuch kehtay hain apna hi mazhab bana laytay hain)...Kind of people who worship dead justifying it...Kindly show me from the Quran that this is allowed! When even ALLAH and HIS prophet didnt allow it how can random people allow it?

1. And when there came to them, that Book (Quran) of Allah, which confirms the Book (Taurat) with them, and before that they were asking for victory over the infidels by means of the same prophet. Then, when came to them that known and recognized one, they rejected him. So Allah's curse on those who reject. (Surah Al Baqrah Verse 89)


· Consult these books for tafseer (Tafaseer e Dur e Mansoor by Jalal ud din Sayoti, Dalail un Nabuwat Imam Abu Nooeem Isfahani, Tafseer e Kabeer Fakhr ud deen Razi, Tafseer Ibn e Jareer)

· Imam Qurtubi related the tradition through Ibn e Abbss:


The Jews of Khaybar were often at war with the Ghatafān (tribe). When they confronted each other (in battle) the Jews were defeated. They attacked again, offering this prayer,“(O Lord,) we beg You through the mediation of the Unlettered Prophet (P.B.U.H) about whom You have promised us that you will send him to us at the end of time. Please help us against them.”Ibn ‘Abbās adds: whenever they faced the enemy, they offered this prayer and defeated the Ghatafān (tribe). But when the Prophet (P.B.U.H) was sent, they denied (him). So Allah the Exalted revealed the verse: “And before that they themselves had (prayed) for victory (through the mediation of the last Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) and the Book revealed to him) over the disbelievers,” that is, through your mediation, O Muhammad.
Qurtubi, Al-Jami li-ahkam-il-Quran, 2:27



· Imam Mahmud Alusi said This (verse) was revealed about Banu Qurayzah and Banu Nadir who used to pray for victory over Aws and Khazraj before Allah’s Messenger’s Prophethood. Ibn ‘Abbās and Qatādah have given expression to the same reality.It means that they prayed to Allah through his mediation for victory over the polytheistsas also stated by as-Suddiyy: when the war raged between them and the polytheists,they opened the Torah and placed their hand on the spot where the Prophet was mentioned and prayed,“O Allah, we pray to You through the mediation of Your Prophet You have promised with us to send him at the end of time; today grant us victory over our enemies.” So (by the blessing of this prayer) they were made victorious.Mahmud Alusi, Ruh-ul-ma‘ānī (1:320)


· Imam Jalal ud deen Suyūtī narrates two traditions on the authority of Ibn ‘Abbās in this context as follows:

The Jews of Banū Qurayzah and Banū Nadīr used to pray for victory over the disbelievers and the infidels before the Prophethood of Muhammad. They said: O Allah, bless us with victory through the mediation of the Unlettered Prophet, and they were blessed with victory.


The Jews of Medina, before the arrival of the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H), in their war against the (tribes of) Arab disbelievers – Asad, Ghatafān, Juhaynah and ‘Udhrah – prayed for victory over them and sought help by invoking the name of Allah’s Messenger. They said: O Allah, our Lord, grant us victory over them through the name of Your Prophet and through Your Book to be revealed to him whose Prophet hood You have promised us at the end of time.
Suyūtī, ad-Durr-ul-manthūr (1:88)




2. Whenever drought threatened them, `Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain."(1) And so it would rain.

Bukhari H # 1010


3. Hazrat Ibin Ubaid said: The people of Syria were mentioned in the presence of Ali Bin Abi Talib R.A when he was in Iraq. They said: Curse the, O Ameer al-Mu’mineen. He said: No; I heard the Messenger of Allah P.B.U.H say: “The Abdal will be in Syria, and they will be forty men. Every time one of them dies, Allah wil replace him with another man. By virtue of them rain is sent and through them victory is achieved against the enemy and punishment is warded off from the people of Syria.”


Musnad e Ahmad H 896, Jamey ul Masaneed wal Sunnan by Hafidh ibne Kathir,Mishkat, also narrated by Tabrani in his Muajam ul Ausat from Anas Bin Malik, Hilya tul Aulia


4. It was narrated from 'Usman bin Hunaif that a blind man came to the Prophet (P.B.U.H) and said: "Pray to Allah to heal me." He said: "If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you." He said: "Supplicate." So he told him to perform ablution and do it well, to pray two Rak'ah, and to say this supplication:"Allahumma lnni as'aluka wa atawajjahu ilaika bimuhammadin nabiyyir-rahma. Ya Muhammadu inni qad tawajjahtu bika ila rabbi fi hajati hadhihi lituqda. Allahumma fashaffi’hu fiya(O Allah, I ask of You andI turn my face towardsYou by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy.O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met.O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me)".

v Ibn Majah, Page 197, Hadith No#1385

v Tirmidhī , book of da‘awat (supplications) ch.119 (5:569#3578)

v Nasa'i, ‘Amal-ul-yawm wal-laylah (p.417#658-659)

v Ahmad bin Hambal in his Musnad (4:138 #17246-17247)

v Hākim, al-Mustadrak (1:313,519)

v Imam Bukhari, Book : Tareekh Ul Kabeer Volume : 6 page : 209 Biography number : 2192



5. Imam Tabrani has narrated an incident that a person repeatedly visited Uthman bin Affan (RA) concerning something he needed but Uthman paid no attention to him. The man went to Uthman bin Hunaif (ra) and complained to him about the matter so Uthman bin Hunaif said : “Go to the place of Wudu, then come to the Masjid, perform two Rak'ats and then say : “O Allah!, I ask you and turn to you through our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I turn through you to my lord, that He fulfil my need” and mention your need. Then come so that I can go with you [to the caliph Uthman] So the man left and did as he had been told, then went to the door of Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him), and the doorman came, took him by the hand, brought him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him next to him on a cushion. 'Uthman asked, "What do you need?" and the man mentioned what he wanted, and Uthman accomplished it for him ...(till the end of hadith)

v Imam Tabrani Book : Ma'jam As Sagheer Volume : 1 Page : 306-307 Hadith number : 508

v Imam Tabrani Book : Ma'jam Al Kabeer Volume : 9 page : 17-19 Hadith number : 8311

v Imam al-Haythami (rah) brought this under "SALAT AL HAJAH" Volume No. 2, Hadith # 3668

v Imam Bayhaqi Book : Dalail An nubuwwah Volume : 6 Page : 167-168



6. Abu Nu’aym related to us who said that Sufyan related to us from Abu Ishaq from Abdur Rahman ibn Sa’d, who said Ibn Umar had numbness in his leg, whereupon a man said to him Remember the most beloved of people to you, so he saidYa Muhammad

v Imam Bukhari, Kitab ul Adab ul Mufrad, Page No. 404, Hadith # 964




7. It is attributed to Dawud bin Abu Salih. He says: one day Marwan came and he saw that a man was lying down with his mouth turned close to the Prophet’s grave. Then he (Marwan) said to him, “Do you know what are you doing?” When he moved towards him,he saw that it wasAbu Ayyub al-Ansari. (In reply) he said, “Yes (I know) I have come to the Messenger of Allah (P.B.U.H) and not to a stone. I have heard it from the Messenger of God (P.B.U.H) not to cry over religion when its guardian is competent. Yes, shed tears over religion when its guardian is incompetent.

v Al-Mustadrak 4:520, Hadith # 8571]

v Ahmad bin Hambal in his musnad 005: Hadith Number 422; Hakim, al-Mustadrak Volume 004: Hadith Number 515



8. Imam Dārimī Relates from Abu al-Jawza’ Aws bin ‘Abdullah: The people of Medina were in the grip of a severe famine. They complained to ‘A’ishah (about their terrible condition).She told them to go towards the Prophet’s grave and open a window in the direction of the sky so that there is no curtain between the sky and the grave. The narrator says they did so. Then it started raining heavily; even the lush green grass sprang up (everywhere) and the camels had grown so fat (it seemed) they would burst out due to the over piling of blubber. So the year was named as the year of greenery and plenty.

v Sunan Darimi Volume 001, Page 227, Hadith Number 093

v Ibn Jawzi (rah) in his al-Wafa bi Ahwal lil Mustafa made a chapter before this hadith



9. Related Abdullah Ibn Umar

Allah's Messenger (P.B.U.H) said:who ever visits my grave after my death it is same he has visited me in my life.

v Tabrani Volume 012: Hadith Number 406

v Bayhaqi Shu'ab ul Iman Volume 003: Hadith Number 489




10. It is attributed to ‘Abdullāh bin Mas‘ūd that the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) is reported to have said:
My life is blissful for you because you hear traditions from people and relate them to others and my death is also blissful for you because your deeds will be presented to me.If I see the virtues prevail, I will be grateful to Allah, and if I see the vices prevail, I will pray for your forgiveness from Allah.

v Haythamī transmitted it in Majma‘-uz-zawā’id (9:24)

v Ibn Sa‘d has recorded it in at-Tabaqāt-ul-kubrā (2:194)

v Qādī ‘Iyād has inscribed this tradition in ash-Shifā (1:19)

v Suyūtī, recording it in al-Khasā’is-ul-kubrā (2:281) and Manāhil-us-sifā fī takhrīj ahādīth ash-Shifā (p.3),

v Hadith-scholar Ibn-ul-Jawzī has reproduced it in al-Wafā bi-ahwāl-il-mustafā (2:809-10)

v Bazzār’s tradition has also been recorded by Ibn Kathīr in al-Bidāyah wan-nihāyah (4:257).

v Ibn Hajar ‘Asqalānī narrated it through Bakr bin ‘Abdullāh Muzanī in al-Matālib-ul-‘āliyah (4:22-3#3853).



11. As it is reported by ‘Amr bin Shu‘ayb that his grandfather says: we were present in the company of the holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) when messengers from Hawāzin tribe came and said: O Muhammad! We belong to the same origin and tribe, and the trouble we are facing is not hidden from you, therefore, have mercy on us. The holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) replied: opt one of the two choices; either take away your property and wealth or have your women freed. They opted for their women and children. Then the Messenger of Allah (P.B.U.H) added: as far as my share and the share of ‘Abd-ul-Muttalib and his children (in the spoils) is concerned, I have already given it to you. But when I have performed the noon prayer, you should all stand up and say:
"Through the means of the Messenger of Allah (P.B.U.H) we seek help for our women and children from believers (or Muslims)"

The narrator says that when people had finished their prayer, they repeated the same words as the Prophet (P.B.U.H) had advised them.

v Nasā’ī, Sunan, book of hibah (gifts) 6:262-3





12. It is narrated by Anas bin Malik. He said: When the mother of ‘Ali bin Abu Talib — Fatimah bint Asad bin Hashim — died, Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) called on her and sat down by the head of the bed and said, “O dear mother, may Allah have mercy on you. After my mother, you were the one I regarded as my mother. When I was hungry you fed me to the point of saturation while you yourself remained hungry. Then you helped me put on clothes and instead of eating yourself, you gave me nice things to eat. You did all this for Allah’s pleasure and for a good reward in the Hereafter.” Then he (the Prophet) commanded to bathe her three times. When camphor water was brought, Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) poured some water into his hands. Then Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) took off his shirt and clothed her with it and used his own sheet of cloth as her coffin.Then Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) sent for Usamah bin Zayd, Abu Ayyub al-Ansari and ‘Umar bin al-Khattab and the negro slave to dig up the grave. So they dug her grave. When they reached near the lahd, Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) dug it up and drew the soil out with his own hands. When he finished, Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) entered and lay down in (the grave), and said, “It is Allah Who controls life and death, and He is Ever living and will never die.(O Allah,) forgive my mother—Fatimah bint Asad— and help her answer properly at the time of questioning and through the mediation of Your Prophet (Muhammad) and the former prophets, make her grave capacious. Surely You are infinitely Merciful.” Then he repeated, “God is Great” four times (i.e. led the funeral prayer). Then he, ‘Abbas and Abu Bakr as-Siddiq lowered her into the grave.

v Tabarani Mu'jam Al-Ausat Volume 001, Page Number 67-68, Hadith Number 189

v Ibn Hibbān and Hākim declared him thiqah (trustworthy). Haythamī also cites it in Majma‘-uz-zawā’id (9:256-7)

v Ibn-ul-Jawzī in al-‘Ilal-ul-mutanāhiyyah (1:268-9#433)

v Abū Nu‘aym in Hilyat-ul-awliyā’ wa tabaqāt-ul-asfiyā’ (3:121

v Mahmūd Sa‘īd Mamdūh graded it hasan (fair) in his Raf‘-ul-minārah (pp.147-8).

It was neither the Prophet who said this nor the sahaba...It was neither the Prophet nor the Sahaba who did this....

It is not the only occasion where people consult to Nabi A.s after his life. The author is presenting an example.

And that thread was about a baba g....and you are quoting Quran where it clearly says YOU (MUHAMMAD) for everyone...and calling them Rasools and stuff....

Who call them Rasools. You are taking it out of context.

And that thread was about a baba g....and you are quoting Quran where it clearly says YOU (MUHAMMAD) for everyone...and calling them Rasools and stuff....

BTW, has Prophet Ibrahim come to anyone's dream? He is also a prophet, right? Also a Rasool...Has Prophet Adam come to anyone's dream? Then why Prophet Muhammad is used all the time? Esp since you say the verse is not for that time when it clearly said you (addressing Muhammad)?

Yes but he failed to see the "you" (reference to Muhammad no one else)...just like story of Ibrahim, Musa were references to their times.....

You are getting me completely wrong. I had replied to your specific sentence which is "According to the Quran God's will is not praying to the dead bodies". I had not kept the whole context of the thread in mind.

 

[Dubious]

The Jews of Khaybar were often at war with the Ghatafān (tribe). When they confronted each other (in battle) the Jews were defeated. They attacked again, offering this prayer,“(O Lord,) we beg You through the mediation of the Unlettered Prophet (P.B.U.H) about whom You have promised us that you will send him to us at the end of time. Please help us against them.”Ibn ‘Abbās adds: whenever they faced the enemy, they offered this prayer and defeated the Ghatafān (tribe). But when the Prophet (P.B.U.H) was sent, they denied (him). So Allah the Exalted revealed the verse: “And before that they themselves had (prayed) for victory (through the mediation of the last Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) and the Book revealed to him) over the disbelievers,” that is, through your mediation, O Muhammad.
Qurtubi, Al-Jami li-ahkam-il-Quran, 2:27



· Imam Mahmud Alusi said This (verse) was revealed about Banu Qurayzah and Banu Nadir who used to pray for victory over Aws and Khazraj before Allah’s Messenger’s Prophethood. Ibn ‘Abbās and Qatādah have given expression to the same reality.It means that they prayed to Allah through his mediation for victory over the polytheistsas also stated by as-Suddiyy: when the war raged between them and the polytheists,they opened the Torah and placed their hand on the spot where the Prophet was mentioned and prayed,“O Allah, we pray to You through the mediation of Your Prophet You have promised with us to send him at the end of time; today grant us victory over our enemies.” So (by the blessing of this prayer) they were made victorious.Mahmud Alusi, Ruh-ul-ma‘ānī (1:320)


· Imam Jalal ud deen Suyūtī narrates two traditions on the authority of Ibn ‘Abbās in this context as follows:

The Jews of Banū Qurayzah and Banū Nadīr used to pray for victory over the disbelievers and the infidels before the Prophethood of Muhammad. They said: O Allah, bless us with victory through the mediation of the Unlettered Prophet, and they were blessed with victory.


The Jews of Medina, before the arrival of the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H), in their war against the (tribes of) Arab disbelievers – Asad, Ghatafān, Juhaynah and ‘Udhrah – prayed for victory over them and sought help by invoking the name of Allah’s Messenger. They said: O Allah, our Lord, grant us victory over them through the name of Your Prophet and through Your Book to be revealed to him whose Prophet hood You have promised us at the end of time.
Suyūtī, ad-Durr-ul-manthūr (1:88)

So it was a trait of the Jews? The trait of the people pre Islam? Why still follow it?

You are getting me completely wrong. I had replied to your specific sentence which is "According to the Quran God's will is not praying to the dead bodies". I had not kept the whole context of the thread in mind.

Yes that is what i said but how did you reply with what happened and how behaved with the prophet or SOME XYZ behaved on a grave!

2. Whenever drought threatened them, `Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain."(1) And so it would rain.

Bukhari H # 1010

Do you know the chapter is called this: Chapter (كتاب الاستسقاء ): Request of the people to the Imam to offer the Istisqa' prayer

THis prayer is said in a congregation is not a baba style prayer where baba says JA BACHAY TAYRA KAAM HO GIYEA but everyone gathers and prays for rain! Like a nawafil prayer!

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 1010
In-book reference : Book 15, Hadith 5
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 2, Book 17, Hadith 123
(deprecated numbering scheme)

3. Hazrat Ibin Ubaid said: The people of Syria were mentioned in the presence of Ali Bin Abi Talib R.A when he was in Iraq. They said: Curse the, O Ameer al-Mu’mineen. He said: No; I heard the Messenger of Allah P.B.U.H say: “The Abdal will be in Syria, and they will be forty men. Every time one of them dies, Allah wil replace him with another man. By virtue of them rain is sent and through them victory is achieved against the enemy and punishment is warded off from the people of Syria.”


Musnad e Ahmad H 896, Jamey ul Masaneed wal Sunnan by Hafidh ibne Kathir,Mishkat, also narrated by Tabrani in his Muajam ul Ausat from Anas Bin Malik, Hilya tul Aulia

No idea what this is....

It is said by some that Ibn Hanbal made a comment in regards to his book which reads as follows: "I have only included a hadith in this book if it had been used as evidence by some of the scholars." Certain Hanbali scholars, such as Abu'l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi claimed that the Musnad contains hadiths that are fabricated by interpolation (i.e. the narrator jumbling up information, mixing texts and authoritative chains), which were said to be nine Hadiths by some, or fifteen Hadiths by some others. However, it is agreed that the hadith that are suspected to be fabricated are not new hadiths that are creations of a dubious narrator's imagination.

4. It was narrated from 'Usman bin Hunaif that a blind man came to the Prophet (P.B.U.H) and said: "Pray to Allah to heal me." He said: "If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you." He said: "Supplicate." So he told him to perform ablution and do it well, to pray two Rak'ah, and to say this supplication:"Allahumma lnni as'aluka wa atawajjahu ilaika bimuhammadin nabiyyir-rahma. Ya Muhammadu inni qad tawajjahtu bika ila rabbi fi hajati hadhihi lituqda. Allahumma fashaffi’hu fiya(O Allah, I ask of You andI turn my face towardsYou by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy.O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met.O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me)".

Muhammad SAW also said (initially) to the blind to do it himself (pray for himself) but if he wishes I will supplicate you! Supplicate means DOA ...I will make doa for you....The rest I am not sure but :
the interccession of Muhammad not of some Baba g!

6. Abu Nu’aym related to us who said that Sufyan related to us from Abu Ishaq from Abdur Rahman ibn Sa’d, who said Ibn Umar had numbness in his leg, whereupon a man said to him Remember the most beloved of people to you, so he saidYa Muhammad

v Imam Bukhari, Kitab ul Adab ul Mufrad, Page No. 404, Hadith # 964

Again prophet....it is not same as a Baba g!

7. It is attributed to Dawud bin Abu Salih. He says: one day Marwan came and he saw that a man was lying down with his mouth turned close to the Prophet’s grave. Then he (Marwan) said to him, “Do you know what are you doing?” When he moved towards him,he saw that it wasAbu Ayyub al-Ansari. (In reply) he said, “Yes (I know) I have come to the Messenger of Allah (P.B.U.H) and not to a stone. I have heard it from the Messenger of God (P.B.U.H) not to cry over religion when its guardian is competent. Yes, shed tears over religion when its guardian is incompetent.

v Al-Mustadrak 4:520, Hadith # 8571]

v Ahmad bin Hambal in his musnad 005: Hadith Number 422; Hakim, al-Mustadrak Volume 004: Hadith Number 515

Was he praying to the grave?

8. Imam Dārimī Relates from Abu al-Jawza’ Aws bin ‘Abdullah: The people of Medina were in the grip of a severe famine. They complained to ‘A’ishah (about their terrible condition).She told them to go towards the Prophet’s grave and open a window in the direction of the sky so that there is no curtain between the sky and the grave. The narrator says they did so. Then it started raining heavily; even the lush green grass sprang up (everywhere) and the camels had grown so fat (it seemed) they would burst out due to the over piling of blubber. So the year was named as the year of greenery and plenty.

v Sunan Darimi Volume 001, Page 227, Hadith Number 093

v Ibn Jawzi (rah) in his al-Wafa bi Ahwal lil Mustafa made a chapter before this hadith

9. Related Abdullah Ibn Umar

Allah's Messenger (P.B.U.H) said:who ever visits my grave after my death it is same he has visited me in my life.

v Tabrani Volume 012: Hadith Number 406

v Bayhaqi Shu'ab ul Iman Volume 003: Hadith Number 489

Neither Bukhari nor Muslim....no idea what that is!

10. It is attributed to ‘Abdullāh bin Mas‘ūd that the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) is reported to have said:
My life is blissful for you because you hear traditions from people and relate them to others and my death is also blissful for you because your deeds will be presented to me.If I see the virtues prevail, I will be grateful to Allah, and if I see the vices prevail, I will pray for your forgiveness from Allah.

This is directly against Islam where ALLAH says no son nor father will bear the burden of the other!

And every man's work have WE fasten to his neck; and on the Day of Resurrection WE shall bring out for him a book which he will find wide open. It will be said to him, ‘Read thy book. Sufficient is thy own soul as a reckoner against thee this day.’ He who follows the right way follows it only for the good of his own soul; and he who goes astray, goes astray only to his own loss. And no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. And WE shall never punish until WE have sent a Messenger. S. 17:13-15 Sher Ali

11. As it is reported by ‘Amr bin Shu‘ayb that his grandfather says: we were present in the company of the holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) when messengers from Hawāzin tribe came and said: O Muhammad! We belong to the same origin and tribe, and the trouble we are facing is not hidden from you, therefore, have mercy on us. The holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) replied: opt one of the two choices; either take away your property and wealth or have your women freed. They opted for their women and children. Then the Messenger of Allah (P.B.U.H) added: as far as my share and the share of ‘Abd-ul-Muttalib and his children (in the spoils) is concerned, I have already given it to you. But when I have performed the noon prayer, you should all stand up and say:
"Through the means of the Messenger of Allah (P.B.U.H) we seek help for our women and children from believers (or Muslims)"

The narrator says that when people had finished their prayer, they repeated the same words as the Prophet (P.B.U.H) had advised them.

v Nasā’ī, Sunan, book of hibah (gifts) 6:262-3

Again during the Prophet's life...nothing to do with dead people!

12. It is narrated by Anas bin Malik. He said: When the mother of ‘Ali bin Abu Talib — Fatimah bint Asad bin Hashim — died, Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) called on her and sat down by the head of the bed and said, “O dear mother, may Allah have mercy on you. After my mother, you were the one I regarded as my mother. When I was hungry you fed me to the point of saturation while you yourself remained hungry. Then you helped me put on clothes and instead of eating yourself, you gave me nice things to eat. You did all this for Allah’s pleasure and for a good reward in the Hereafter.” Then he (the Prophet) commanded to bathe her three times. When camphor water was brought, Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) poured some water into his hands. Then Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) took off his shirt and clothed her with it and used his own sheet of cloth as her coffin.Then Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) sent for Usamah bin Zayd, Abu Ayyub al-Ansari and ‘Umar bin al-Khattab and the negro slave to dig up the grave. So they dug her grave. When they reached near the lahd, Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) dug it up and drew the soil out with his own hands. When he finished, Allah’s Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) entered and lay down in (the grave), and said, “It is Allah Who controls life and death, and He is Ever living and will never die.(O Allah,) forgive my mother—Fatimah bint Asad— and help her answer properly at the time of questioning and through the mediation of Your Prophet (Muhammad) and the former prophets, make her grave capacious. Surely You are infinitely Merciful.” Then he repeated, “God is Great” four times (i.e. led the funeral prayer). Then he, ‘Abbas and Abu Bakr as-Siddiq lowered her into the grave.

v Tabarani Mu'jam Al-Ausat Volume 001, Page Number 67-68, Hadith Number 189

v Ibn Hibbān and Hākim declared him thiqah (trustworthy). Haythamī also cites it in Majma‘-uz-zawā’id (9:256-7)

v Ibn-ul-Jawzī in al-‘Ilal-ul-mutanāhiyyah (1:268-9#433)

v Abū Nu‘aym in Hilyat-ul-awliyā’ wa tabaqāt-ul-asfiyā’ (3:121

v Mahmūd Sa‘īd Mamdūh graded it hasan (fair) in his Raf‘-ul-minārah (pp.147-8).

I dont know these references! But I believe prophet is still alive....and he is saying a prayer...but the language used here is horrible! Negro!

 

[waz]

A new drama on Kashmir
Neelum Kinnaray

@django @Neutron @engineer saad
Dramay ch we England jhulnay na program

Nice meserah. I'll be watching this. Mara pyara Azad Kashmir!

 

[Dubious]

A new drama on Kashmir
Neelum Kinnaray

@django @Neutron @engineer saad
Dramay ch we England jhulnay na program

Do Kashmiri really still wear that headset? looks cool! A little irritating if doing house chors like those big panchay wali shalwar during my nanai's time

 

[Mutakalim]

@Akheilos
So it comes up to the point which I expected. I would try to end this debate. May Allah bless us with his mercy.

Do you know the chapter is called this: Chapter (كتاب الاستسقاء ): Request of the people to the Imam to offer the Istisqa' prayer

Definitely.
Search bukhari and carefully read its Chapter Titles. You will find out that it is a common habit of Imam to Generalise the title. Most of Ahaades present in this chapter are related to Istasqa. It doesn't mean that other Ahkams of shariah could not be derived from it.

It is said by some that Ibn Hanbal made a comment in regards to his book which reads as follows: "I have only included a hadith in this book if it had been used as evidence by some of the scholars."

Said by whom?

" Certain Hanbali scholars, such as Abu'l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi claimed that the Musnad contains hadiths that are fabricated by interpolation (i.e. the narrator jumbling up information, mixing texts and authoritative chains),

Quoting Jawzi in matters of Jarah is funny. This person happens to be so strict that he declared some Sahih Ahadees as Mozooh. Criticisms of many scholars is present on him.

which were said to be nine Hadiths by some, or fifteen Hadiths by some others. However, it is agreed that the hadith that are suspected to be fabricated are not new hadiths that are creations of a dubious narrator's imagination.

Very generalise statement. Who know whether the Said Hadees is included or not.

Muhammad SAW also said (initially) to the blind to do it himself (pray for himself) but if he wishes I will supplicate you! Supplicate means DOA ...I will make doa for you....The rest I am not sure but :
the interccession of Muhammad not of some Baba g!

ok.
So you are accepting intercession of Rasool Allah?

Again prophet....it is not same as a Baba g!

Again same question.

Neither Bukhari nor Muslim....no idea what that is!

So it means that the hadees which is not present in Bukhari or Muslim is Mozooh?

This is directly against Islam where ALLAH says no son nor father will bear the burden of the other!

And every man's work have WE fasten to his neck; and on the Day of Resurrection WE shall bring out for him a book which he will find wide open. It will be said to him, ‘Read thy book. Sufficient is thy own soul as a reckoner against thee this day.’ He who follows the right way follows it only for the good of his own soul; and he who goes astray, goes astray only to his own loss. And no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. And WE shall never punish until WE have sent a Messenger. S. 17:13-15 Sher Ali

Think more about it before rejecting. It is not the kallam of Some Baduu but narrated from Rasool Allah.

Again during the Prophet's life...nothing to do with dead people!

Ok.

I dont know these references! But I believe prophet is still alive....and he is saying a prayer...but the language used here is horrible! Negro!

You should expect this standard as it is Translated from Arabic to English.

 

[Dubious]

Search bukhari and carefully read its Chapter Titles. You will find out that it is a common habit of Imam to Generalise the title. Most of Ahaades present in this chapter are related to Istasqa. It doesn't mean that other Ahkams of shariah could not be derived from it.

You are reading translated versions....I usually read both Arabic, translations from different people and different language (I have read Bukhari in 2 languages - Not including Arabic so I get to pick stuff found in 1 language not expressed in the other since I am not a 1st language Arab speaker I cant make the essence but by reading in more than 1 language I gain a larger scope) and tafsir....

Said by whom?

The author in his books...

Quoting Jawzi in matters of Jarah is funny. This person happens to be so strict that he declared some Sahih Ahadees as Mozooh. Criticisms of many scholars is present on him.

It is true that some Sahih Hadith are thrown out in recent recompilation...Why? Coz even Imam Bukhari said that I have "compiled" to the best of my knowledge. If anything contradicts the Quran or a hadith which is more sound, throw mine out (literally translation from Arabic)

Very generalise statement. Who know whether the Said Hadees is included or not.

Hence, why many are rearranged through the scrutiny and science of hadith which checks all those who narrated - the people, the incident and the temporal aspect as to what happened that led to the hadith or someone narrating it

ok.
So you are accepting intercession of Rasool Allah?

I dont accept nor deny it....I can only pray for a favour through him (as he did say he prayed for his future UMMAH also) but never to Rasool himself!

So it means that the hadees which is not present in Bukhari or Muslim is Mozooh?

It is just not Sahih....meaning we SHOULD question it and read up more about it and not take it with a blind eye!

Think more about it before rejecting. It is not the kallam of Some Baduu but narrated from Rasool Allah.

We cant be sure as it is a translation and in all honesty I have rarely seen any other Muslim population do the weird things that happen so openly in South Asia in any other community!

You should expect this standard as it is Translated from Arabic to English.

No most TRANSLATION by decent people NEVER has harsh words as it is not the language of the learned esp the learned of that time were very precise! You can see from the sophisticated poetry they used to make! They were VERY careful with their words...Usually who werent, it was 1 of the signs to question the hadith and most of such hadith which were "rude" were actually shown to be weak and fake!

 

[Mutakalim]

You are reading translated versions....I usually read both Arabic, translations from different people and different language (I have read Bukhari in 2 languages - Not including Arabic so I get to pick stuff found in 1 language not expressed in the other since I am not a 1st language Arab speaker I cant make the essence but by reading in more than 1 language I gain a larger scope) and tafsir....

Well a good way to get the essence by reading in two different languages.

It is true that some Sahih Hadith are thrown out in recent recompilation...Why? Coz even Imam Bukhari said that I have "compiled" to the best of my knowledge. If anything contradicts the Quran or a hadith which is more sound, throw mine out (literally translation from Arabic)

And who have the right to decide whether a certain hadith is Sahih or fall in some other category. Definitely Jawzi Alone cannot decide it. Ummah is full of persons like jawzi. Are you suggesting that some Ahadees which are previously present in Sahih bukhari are thrown out?

Hence, why many are rearranged through the scrutiny and science of hadith which checks all those who narrated - the people, the incident and the temporal aspect as to what happened that led to the hadith or someone narrating it

Said Hadees is present in Musnad Ahmad.