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Pakistan was created on the basis of group nationalism and not religion

That is very interesting.

One must know if indeed it was so since it would be a worthwhile education.

Any links?

I read it a long time ago. I think in news paper of 1947s in lib....because this issue at that time became very hot ! first jinnah didnt agree...but some days later he agreed upon it.
 
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Rubbish !! I can speak for a good number of Pakistani posters, we just don't go to their forums to interact, we read there, we do not interact because our worldviews, in particular about historical events -- and this thread was about ideas in Pakistan, not any damn indian anything!!
 
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I thought Pakistan was created on the basis of two nation theory, where is the nationalism in two nation theory?

TNT is a combination of western nationalism's territory aspect and Islamic identity.
 
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If Sethi is unreliable for some Pakistanis, then would this meet the bill:

The Subtle Subversion
The State of
Curricula and Textbooks
in Pakistan
Urdu, English, Social Studies and Civics
Editors: A. H. Nayyar and Ahmad Salim

SUMMARY

Pakistan’s public education system has an important role in determining how successful
we shall be in achieving the goal of a progressive, moderate and democratic Pakistan. A
key requirement is that children learn to understand and value this goal and cherish the
values of truthfulness, honesty, responsibility, equality, justice, and peace that go with it.
Children’s identities and value systems are strongly shaped by the national curricula and
textbooks in Social Studies, English, Urdu and Civics from Class I to Class XII. The
responsibility for designing them lies with the Curriculum Wing of the Federal Ministry of
Education and the provincial Text Book Boards. The Curriculum Wing is mandated to
design all pre-university curricula and issue guidelines to textbook writers and school
teachers. Provincial Textbook Boards commission writing of textbooks and get them
printed after their contents are approved by the Curriculum Wing.
A close analysis by a group of independent scholars shows that for over two decades the
curricula and the officially mandated textbooks in these subjects have contained material
that is directly contrary to the goals and values of a progressive, moderate and
democratic Pakistan.
The March 2002 revision of curricula undertaken by the Curriculum Wing of the Ministry
of Education did not address the problems that existed in earlier curriculum documents.
In some cases, these problems are now even worse.
Our analysis found that some of the most significant problems in the current curricula
and textbooks are:
���� Inaccuracies of fact and omissions that serve to substantially distort the nature and
significance of actual events in our history.
���� Insensitivity to the existing religious diversity of the nation
���� Incitement to militancy and violence, including encouragement of Jehad and
Shahadat
���� Perspectives that encourage prejudice, bigotry and discrimination towards fellow
citizens, especially women and religious minorities, and other towards nations.
���� A glorification of war and the use of force
���� Omission of concepts, events and material that could encourage critical selfawareness
among students

���� Outdated and incoherent pedagogical practices that hinder the development of
interest and insight among students
To give a few examples:
The books on Social Studies systematically misrepresent events that have happened
throughout the Pakistan’s history, including those which are within living memory of many
people.
This history is narrated with distortions and omissions. The causes, effects, and
responsibility for key events are presented so as to leave a false understanding of our
national experience. A large part of the history of South Asia is also omitted, making it
difficult to properly interpret events, and narrowing the perspective that should be open
to students. Worse, the material is presented in ways that encourage the student to
marginalize and be hostile towards other social groups and people in the region.
The curricula and textbooks are insensitive to the religious diversity of the Pakistani
society. While learning of Islamiat is compulsory for Muslim students, on average over a
quarter of the material in books to teach Urdu as a language is on one religion. The
books on English have lessons with religious content. Islamiat is also taught in Social
Studies classes. Thus, the entire is heavily laden with religious teachings, reflecting a
very narrow view held by a minority among Muslims that all the education should be
essentially that of Islamiat.24
There is a strong current of exclusivist and divisive tendencies at work in the subject
matter recommended for studies in the curriculum documents as well as in textbooks.
Pakistani nationalism is repeatedly defined in a manner that excludes non-Muslim
Pakistanis from either being Pakistani nationals or from even being good human beings.
Much of this material runs counter to any efforts at national integration.
The Constitution of Pakistan is cited but misinterpreted, in making the reading of the
Qur'an compulsory in schools. The Constitution requires the compulsory reading of the
Qur’an for Muslim students alone, but in complete disregard of this restriction, it is
included in the textbooks of a compulsory subject like Urdu which is to be read by
students of all religions. The Class III Urdu textbook has 7 lessons on Nazra Qur'an and
its translations. The Urdu and Social Studies curricula even ask for all the students to be
taught Islamic religious practices like Namaz and Wuzu.
Besides severe pedagogical problems like uneven standards of lessons in books on
English and Urdu languages and bad English even in the English language books,
glaring contradictions exist in books on Social Studies. Together, these factors make it
almost impossible for students to develop critical and analytical skills.
The curriculum as well as textbooks excessively emphasize the "Ideology of Pakistan"
which is a post-independence construction devised to sanctify their politics of those
political forces which were initially inimical to the creation of Pakistan
Most of the textbook problems cited above have their origin in two sources: (1)
curriculum documents and syllabi and (2) the instructions to textbook authors issued from the Curriculum Wing of the Ministry of Education. As long as the same institutions
continue to devise curricula, the problems will persist. Repeated interventions from the
post-1988 civilian governments failed to overcome the institutional resistance.
The problems are further accentuated when the authors of textbooks produce books that
are heavily laden with doctrinal material and devoid of much useful instructional content.
The provincial textbook boards are to be held squarely responsible for repeatedly failing
to produce textbooks that are useful and interesting to students.

http://www.sdpi.org/whats_new/reporton/State of Curr&TextBooks.pdf

Interesting is also the Part I and II.
 
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And then these Bhartis say they're not obsessed with us lol.

How can't we be when Mr Pakistan Kasab turns up in our cities carrying AK-47 as fatal gift from Pakistan ??

Are n't the US obsessed about Osama Bin Laden and Al-queda ??
 
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Guidelines for Reforming the National Curriculum
The use of public education as a means of national and social indoctrination for political
ends has created deep social problems and encouraged the development of a more
violent polity. This needs to be reversed.
Our study of the curriculum and textbooks for Social/ Pakistan studies, Urdu and English
from class I to Class XII leads to a number of specific proposals for the reforms that must
be made in the national curriculum if it is to help Pakistan become a more progressive
and democratic nation.
We propose that in the curricula and textbooks for these disciplines, changes should be
guided by the following principles:
1. Falsehoods, distortions and omissions concerning our national history needs to be
replaced by accounts of events that are supported by rigorous modern scholarship
2. Material encouraging or justifying discrimination against women, religious and
ethnic minorities, and against other nations, should be replaced with the positive
values of social equality, mutual respect and responsibility, justice and peace.
3. Arbitrary concepts, incoherence, inconsistency and other pedagogical problems
should be replaced by a systematic set of modern ideas about history, geography
society and identity based on well-established academic disciplines.
A simple example will be offered here of what might practically be done regarding putting
these principles into practice in the national curriculum. Children are presently taught
Pakistan Studies as a replacement for the teaching of history and geography as fullfledged
disciplines. In the first 25 years of Pakistan, this was not the case. Children at
that time were taught the very early history of South Asia, including pre-historic times.
The books described in detail the ancient religious mythology of this region, the early
great Hindu and Buddhist kingdoms of the Mauriyas and the Guptas, the Muslim
conquests and establishment of Muslim sultanates in North India. This long historical
perspective of our region is absent in more recent textbooks. Instead, children are now
taught that the history of Pakistan starts from the day the first Muslim set foot in India.
The goal should not, however, be a return to a decades old notion of history as the
stories of kings and queens, their wars and conquests, and geography as dealing with
maps, names and places. These disciplines, like many others, have undergone a
profound transformation in other societies. Such changes need to be incorporated if
Pakistan’s children are to develop the understanding and skills they will need to keep up with their peers around the world in the twenty-first century. In an age of globalisation,
Pakistan’s children need to learn about their society in the global geo-political context
and to understand how their history, geography and identity are inextricably linked to that
of many others.

Same link
 
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Rubbish !! I can speak for a good number of Pakistani posters, we just don't go to their forums to interact, we read there, we do not interact because our worldviews, in particular about historical events -- and this thread was about ideas in Pakistan, not any damn indian anything!!

I can speak for an equally good number of Indian members, we only comment when someone brings up the usual India rant in any thread.
 
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The bias in Pakistani textbooks was studied by Rubina Saigol, Pervez Hoodbhoy, K. K. Aziz, I. A. Rahman, Mubarak Ali, A. H. Nayyar, Ahmed Saleem, Y. Rosser and others.

Pakistan has been a victim of western bias against religion and race. Madrassas have specially been a victim of western propaganda. There has been unequivocal evidence that pakistani students abroad have also been a victim of bias and racism.[2][3][4][5]. Despite the western preaching of human rights, freedom of speech and respect for others, students have been humiliated and disrespected. There are dual fees for european union students and international students. English language requirements and other policies are also anti third world. Until recently Harvard university did not have a separate gym for women. Insincere academics like Mahbob-ul-Hasan who have helped in development of human development index in UN, which has been called 'vulgar measure' has helped propagate these lies. South Asian faculty abroad on western payroll has helped spread the message of hate.

A study by Nayyar & Salim (2003) that was conducted with 30 experts of Pakistan's education system, found that the textbooks contain statements that seek to create hate against Hindus. There was also an emphasis on Jihad, Shahadat, wars and military heroes. The study reported that the textbooks also had a lot of gender-biased stereotypes. Some of the problems in Pakistani textbooks cited in the report were: “Insensitivity to the existing religious diversity of the nation”; "Incitement to militancy and violence, including encouragement of Jehad and Shahadat”; a “glorification of war and the use of force”; "Inaccuracies of fact and omissions that serve to substantially distort the nature and significance of actual events in our history"; “Perspectives that encourage prejudice, bigotry and discrimination towards fellow citizens, especially women and religious minorities, and other towards nations” and “Omission of concepts ... that could encourage critical selfawareness among students”. (Nayyar & Salim 2003)

Professors who have been critical of Pakistani politics or corruption have are sometimes discriminated against. Dr. Parvez Hoodbhoy, who was also a critic of Pakistani politics, had troubles leaving the country for a lecture in the Physics department at MIT, because he was denied a NOC (No Objection Certificate) necessary for travels abroad [11]

One of the omissions in Pakistani textbooks is Operation Gibraltar. Operation Gibraltar, which provoked the Indian Army attack on Lahore, is not mentioned in most history textbooks. According to Pakistani textbooks, Lahore was attacked without any provocation on the part of the Pakistani army [12]. The rule of Islamic invaders like Mahmud of Gahzni is glorified, while the much more peaceful Islamic ruler Akbar is often ignored in Pakistani textbooks.

The Pakistani Curriculum document for classes K-V stated in 1995 that "at the completion of Class-V, the child should be able to":

* "Acknowledge and identify forces that may be working against Pakistan."[pg 154]
* "Demonstrate by actions a belief in the fear of Allah." [pg154]
* "Make speeches on Jehad and Shahadat" [pg154]
* "Understand Hindu-Muslim differences and the resultant need for Pakistan." [pg154]
* "India's evil designs against Pakistan." [pg154]
* "Be safe from rumour mongers who spread false news" [pg158]
* "Visit police stations" [pg158]
* "Collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and National Guards" [pg158]
* "Demonstrate respect for the leaders of Pakistan" [pg153] (National Bureau of Curriculum and Textbooks Federal Ministry of Education, 1995 Government of Pakistan. Pervez Hoodbhoy - What Are They Teaching In Pakistani Schools Today? [13])

Bias in Education - WikiEducator
 
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I have posted the links and some extract since it was taken that Sethi was unreliable.

It is not for me to judge Pakistan.

I have just given some opinions of internationally respected Pakistanis.

If they are wrong, then surely one should be educated on what they are erroneously stating since the picture must be clear for the one who is in quest for the reality.

Whatever, Pakistan's destiny is in the hand of Pakistanis and I am sure they will rise from all the issues that are causing discomfort. That there is disquiet is evident from raising this thread and if there were no feeling of disquiet such threads would not have surfaced.
 
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I would request that those who do not have the time to read the links, may at least read Posts #124, #126, #128 and #129 so that we all can learn how all these scholars of Pakistan are wrong.
 
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india was a name given by the greeks to subcontinent !!


and never forget nehru requested Jinnah to let Bharit be called India in english and hindustand in urdu...

perhaps Jinnah shouldnot have allowed...

whether india, bharat, hindustan or anything else, it does not matter. the one thing that matter is that the whole subcontinent was viewed as a single entity.
 
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TTT every country's text book are bound to be bias, I dont find anyone Glorifying Muslim rule by any hindu. if you belong to opponent segment you are bound to feel the other view biased ! more over only scholarly research work are said to follow a standard. go and survey why British children make fun of Americans !!
 
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I agree with one thing that the bias should not be explicit, rather implied... its a better strategy.
 
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TTT every country's text book are bound to be bias, I dont find anyone Glorifying Muslim rule by any hindu. if you belong to opponent segment you are bound to feel the other view biased ! more over only scholarly research work are said to follow a standard. go and survey why British children make fun of Americans !!

I would not know about Pakistan text books.

Are you sure that the personalities I have quoted who are internationally recognised are ridiculous in their analysis.

I have not given the link to Pervez Hoodbhoy. He too has not taken the Pakistani education to be very correct in outlook.

But then who am I to comment, you know better.
 
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The simplest way for Pakistan to get back on its feet will be if they fallow the Quran.

Holy Qur'an: Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.

Unfortunately Muslims in Pakistan are fooled into believing that they are just perfect Muslims and if they fallow this and that leader they will become even more perfect and thats why this nation has seen no change because of its corrupt ideology.
 
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