Pakistan was created on the basis of group nationalism and not religion

[Nalwa]

I would expect Rape and other crimes in mass scale by later muslim empire but defiantly not by Early Caliphs since it is strictly forbidden in islam to commit such crimes. Indans Hindus and western propagandists love reinventing history to defame Islam in anyway possible.

You could be right. But rape was a common war occurence. An invading army uptill modern times almost always indulged in it to subjugate the conquered people. If you are trying to use religious edicts as defense for Caliphate armies how would you justify the expansionist policies? The Caliphate came to rule much of North Africa, Spain, the Middle east and Sind by way of war and not some inheritance. Was war and violence for land grab and expansionism condoned in Islam?

 

[LaBong]

I would expect Rape and other crimes in mass scale by later muslim empire but defiantly not by Early Caliphs since it is strictly forbidden in islam to commit such crimes. Indans Hindus and western propagandists love reinventing history to defame Islam in anyway possible.

PHI Persian Literature in Translation

The Chachanama.

 

[TheStrantrunCurve]

PHI Persian Literature in Translation

The Chachanama.

Sir where does it says Qasim was involved in raping people

 

[Nalwa]

Nalwa,
I disagree with your first part that India starts with the plains, India is a recent word let's use Hindustaan because the brits couldn't pronounce Hindustaan so they called the whole south asia as India instead.
All the muslims rulers be they ghauris, tughlaqs, Mughals, khiljis used hindustaan, No where is India used by south asians

Now how how does punjab becomes hindustaan. The punjab indentity is much older than hindustaani. The punjabi culture starts with indus valley civilization 5000 years ago while the hindustani culture arose around arose 1000 years.

I am dissapointed you being a punjabi is giving up your more superior identity over hindustaani identity.

The name hindustaan only became popular after Ghauris invasion
Note punjab was already occupied by Mamud Ghazni in 1000 AD and was never called Hindustaan. Punjab has been the frontier of Hindustaan but not the hindustaan proper. Of course different people throughout the last 10 centururies used the term Hindustan for different geographic region. Babur used the word hindustaan for whole south asia even pushtun areas but the fact remain half of pakistani punjab trace ancesrtry from middle east, central asia, such as sayyed, qureshi, Arrain, Awan, Ghakkhar, Khokkhar. It is only the rajput and Jats which can be called Indian.

I agree with you muslims invaders were also cruels to muslims as they were to hindus, Tamerlane exterminated quarter of muslim iran population.

Even if we use your nomenclature, it doesnt change many things. Even if I assume that Punjab wasn't a part of Hindustan proper, it still faced these invaders. Punjabis including Hindus, Muslims and later Sikhs suffered at the hands of these very invaders like Abdali. That means that my initial argument that the ancestors of the modern day Pakistanis were once faced with atrocities by these very 'heroes' still stands.

And I don't consider my Punjabi identity to be superior or inferior to my Indian identity. I am a Punjabi, a Sikh, a Jatt and an Indian. All at the same time.

 

[LaBong]

Sir where does it says Qasim was involved in raping people

No it doesn't say so, it says something about his death but there are other conflicting accounts exists about it.

 

[TheStrantrunCurve]

Even if we use your nomenclature, it doesnt change many things. Even if I assume that Punjab wasn't a part of Hindustan proper, it still faced these invaders. Punjabis including Hindus, Muslims and later Sikhs suffered at the hands of these very invaders like Abdali. That means that my initial argument that the ancestors of the modern day Pakistanis were once faced with atrocities by these very 'heroes' still stands.

And I don't consider my Punjabi identity to be superior or inferior to my Indian identity. I am a Punjabi, a Sikh, a Jatt and an Indian. All at the same time.

Sir,
I already told you even if the entire punjabi population was muslim, rape, looting and destruction would still have occured, and regarding the name of missiles, Pushtuns claim Mamud ghazni and ahmed shah as their heroes and both of them were pushtuns so pakistanis have a claim on these invaders.

Punjab suffered immensely under ghauris and abdalis, but in Sindh, Balochistan and Pukhtunkhwa, people have no problem in accepting him as hero.

And about your identity, I dont want you to be proud of being punjabi i was just saying punjabi identity is one the oldest of all in south asia.

 

[fida jan]

63 years and we are still discussing what was the ideology behind creation of Pakistan?

If Pakistan has to progress, you guys need to decide what should be the ideology of Pakistan in the future, not what happened in the past.

Just my 2 cents.

bhai ji, what can i say, these gutter log, these neech people, apne mulk main reh k apne mulk ke dushman

pakistan's ideology was clearly stated by liaquat ali khan and quaid e azam

you know what these liberal extremist people are, these 2 taka 5% jageer dars waderas, who thought, by supporting pakistan, they had the home land for themselves, these same waderas were given lands by brits for loyalty and disloyalty to their own people

these same 5% come with all rubbish now a days in pakistani english media

pakistan was made by the blood of people who always wanted pakistan to be an islamic country.. not these pleasure seeking wadera people..

millions of people didnt migrate and sacrificed their properties from india just to see a secular western republic in the making, they had a lot in their minds

this is the ghulamana zehen which these people carry, thats why pakistan couldnt manage to go beyond colonial mentality

 

[Myth_buster_1]

You could be right. But rape was a common war occurence. An invading army uptill modern times almost always indulged in it to subjugate the conquered people. If you are trying to use religious edicts as defense for Caliphate armies how would you justify the expansionist policies? The Caliphate came to rule much of North Africa, Spain, the Middle east and Sind by way of war and not some inheritance. Was war and violence for land grab and expansionism condoned in Islam?

The Crusade I and III are very well documented events. When Crusades invaded Palestine they slaughtered everyone they saw in that city including Christians jews and Muslims and nearly 70,000 people died in a week. After almost a century rule by crusades, Salahsalahuddin defeated and took over the control of the city and spared all the Christians who migrated from europe and he never harmed any civilians. The reason why i am talking about this matter is cuz its very well documented where as Muslim's expansion of India is not documented well at all. You have Indian Hindus who will spread all negativity about these Caliphs and Muslims who will glorify everything related to Muslims.
Islam commands its followers to spread Islam but does not allows innocent civilians to be killed if they dont convert.

 

[Leader]

bhai ji, what can i say, these gutter log, these neech people, apne mulk main reh k apne mulk ke dushman

pakistan's ideology was clearly stated by liaquat ali khan and quaid e azam

you know what these liberal extremist people are, these 2 taka 5% jageer dars waderas, who thought, by supporting pakistan, they had the home land for themselves, these same waderas were given lands by brits for loyalty and disloyalty to their own people

these same 5% come with all rubbish now a days in pakistani english media

pakistan was made by the blood of people who always wanted pakistan to be an islamic country.. not these pleasure seeking wadera people..

millions of people didnt migrate and sacrificed their properties from india just to see a secular western banana republic in the making, they had a lot in their minds

sometimes I wonder if muslims were not looking for an Islamic state...what else were they thinking ???

 

[Nalwa]

The Crusade I and III are very well documented events. When Crusades invaded Palestine they slaughtered everyone they saw in that city including Christians jews and Muslims and nearly 70,000 people died in a week. After almost a century rule by crusades, Salahsalahuddin defeated and took over the control of the city and spared all the Christians who migrated from europe and he never harmed any civilians. The reason why i am talking about this matter is cuz its very well documented where as Muslim's expansion of India is not documented well at all. You have Indian Hindus who will spread all negativity about these Caliphs and Muslims who will glorify everything related to Muslims.
Islam commands its followers to spread Islam but does not allows innocent civilians to be killed if they dont convert.

I know about the massacres by the Christian armies during the Crusades. Jerusalem suffered everytime the Christians conquered it. But that is not the topic of the debate. The fact is that armies and rulers seldom go by the book. The book being Quran or the Bible. I am sure Islam also doesnt allow for waging war on your neighbors just for the sake of conquering them. But still the Caliphs conquered a lot of areas. So atrocities happen irrespective of the faith because during war all thought of religious rights and wrongs go out of the window.

 

[MadDog]

If Pak was made on group nationalism then why was our first embassador to UN was a Austrian Jewish Convert to Islam..
dont BS after 60 years Pakistan was formed exactly like Israel..later your politicians screwed it up...
more details about Muhammad Asad Muhammad Asad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Muhammad Asad (formerly Leopold Weiss) (1900–1992), an Austrian Jew who converted to Islam, was a 20th century journalist, traveler, writer, social critic, linguist, thinker, reformer, diplomat, political theorist, translator and scholar. Asad was one of the 20th century's most influential European Muslims.[1]

In 1947, Asad was given Pakistani citizenship by the newly established Muslim state of Pakistan and appointed the Director of the Department of Islamic Reconstruction by the Government of Pakistan, where he made recommendations on the drafting of Pakistan's first Constitution. In 1949, Asad joined Pakistan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs as head of the Middle East Division and, in 1952, was appointed Pakistan's Minister Plenipotentiary to the United Nations in New York.[2]

Muhammad Asad is famously known for his two publications - "The Road to Mecca", a biographical account of his life up to the age of 32, his conversion to Islam from Judaism and his journey to Mecca and his magnum opus, "The Message of the Qur'an", a translation and commentary of the sacred book of Islam, the Qur'an."

 

[fida jan]

sometimes I wonder if muslims were not looking for an Islamic state...what else were they thinking ???

jagirdaris and eternal wadera system for these shitty bast@rds, these people must be slaughtered immediately, these western arse kissing neech log, they betray their own people....

what a slave mentality they have, same colonial era mentality, same heading, same direction..... shame on them..

quaid e azam also feared from these low level people.. look at zerdari, the king of these liberal thugs, looting our economy day and night

 

[Myth_buster_1]

bhai ji, what can i say, these gutter log, these neech people, apne mulk main reh k apne mulk ke dushman

pakistan's ideology was clearly stated by liaquat ali khan and quaid e azam

you know what these liberal extremist people are, these 2 taka 5% jageer dars waderas, who thought, by supporting pakistan, they had the home land for themselves, these same waderas were given lands by brits for loyalty and disloyalty to their own people

these same 5% come with all rubbish now a days in pakistani english media

pakistan was made by the blood of people who always wanted pakistan to be an islamic country.. not these pleasure seeking wadera people..

millions of people didnt migrate and sacrificed their properties from india just to see a secular western republic in the making, they had a lot in their minds

this is the ghulamana zehen which these people carry, thats why pakistan couldnt manage to go beyond colonial mentality

Bahen ji

I am sorry to say but Pakistanis have been duped since the begging.
Every single government structure be it military justice or anything were all based on Secular idea of keeping religion away from all matters. And then to satisfy Muslims' ego they just called it all Islamic and people never question anything. Even our education system produces obedient citizens who never question the authority.

 

[fida jan]

Bahen ji

I am sorry to say but Pakistanis have been duped since the begging.
Every single government structure be it military justice or anything were all based on Secular idea of keeping religion away from all matters. And then to satisfy Muslims' ego they just called it all Islamic and people never question anything. Even our education system produces obedient citizens who never question the authority.

wtf i said??, didnt i say colonial mentality???, these shameless liberal extremist jageerdars, what shame they have to defend their liberalism, 63 years of looting and colonial western mentality...

in pakistan they loot public money and go to UK or america to do ayashi...
pakistan must have immediately implemented islamic socialism, to keep heavy danda esp on these guys...
and im nt behan ji, aunty ji

 

[fida jan]

If Pak was made on group nationalism then why was our first embassador to UN was a Austrian Jewish Convert to Islam..
dont BS after 60 years Pakistan was formed exactly like Israel..later your politicians screwed it up...
more details about Muhammad Asad Muhammad Asad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Muhammad Asad (formerly Leopold Weiss) (1900–1992), an Austrian Jew who converted to Islam, was a 20th century journalist, traveler, writer, social critic, linguist, thinker, reformer, diplomat, political theorist, translator and scholar. Asad was one of the 20th century's most influential European Muslims.[1]

In 1947, Asad was given Pakistani citizenship by the newly established Muslim state of Pakistan and appointed the Director of the Department of Islamic Reconstruction by the Government of Pakistan, where he made recommendations on the drafting of Pakistan's first Constitution. In 1949, Asad joined Pakistan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs as head of the Middle East Division and, in 1952, was appointed Pakistan's Minister Plenipotentiary to the United Nations in New York.[2]

Muhammad Asad is famously known for his two publications - "The Road to Mecca", a biographical account of his life up to the age of 32, his conversion to Islam from Judaism and his journey to Mecca and his magnum opus, "The Message of the Qur'an", a translation and commentary of the sacred book of Islam, the Qur'an."

these same people also killed quaid e azam and liaquat ali khan, so that their colonial era jagirdaaris remain and maintained