I see you have not provided any links. BLA leader Brahamdagh Bugti had also claimed numerous times that he accepted assistance from India and Afghanistan to defend the Baloch nationalist cause. Leaders of Baloch insurgencies have publicly listed India among their sponsors.
Are you even reading my post, I provided you a link with SIMI chief Safdar Nagori's views. Here is his interview in 2001
India Today Magazine
Q. At SIMI meetings speeches of Qazi Hussain, the Jamait-e-Islami chief in Pakistan, are played. Why?
A. We link up with him in Pakistan through phones and the speeches are amplified for the audience.
And what does the Baloch insurgency have to do with any of this. And SIMI is a political group that was not even involved directly in terrorism. There has been no conviction of SIMI member per se as of now in a terrorism court. Its the splinter group IM that is alleged to be involved in some terrorism cases. Almost all have a Pakistani link to it. And the amount of terrorists attack comitted by Pakistanis pale in comparison by any conducted by IM. Case in point is the Mumbai attacks.
What false statements did I make? The 2 shia militant groups are fringe groups, and the main Shia body in Pakistan is the Tehreek-e-Jafria. Show me statements made by the Dar uloom Deoband against the actions of the Indian Mujahideen, or from 30 years ago condemning the terrorism committed by SIMI. Please post the links of the statements from top Dar-uloom Deoband condemning the terrorism of IM. Pakistan has been alleged to be involved with SIMI on some level, the important word is alleged. There is no hard evidence to back up the claim. Circumstantial evidence is meaningless.
False because you said Deoband has not condemned SIMI. First of all SIMI was the student wing of Jamaat ISlami. You have exposed your ignorance by not knowing the basic difference between Jammat Islami - a political religious organisation and Deoband a school of thought that opposes the political Islamic ideology. If a group should be condemining its actions it would be the Jamaat Islami which had dis associated it much before the 1990s itself and broke all relations with it. This shows how SIMI was not acceptable to even the JI-Hind.
And when you have the fatwa on terrorism from no just SIMI but Al Qaeda and Taliban as well you are still not convinced about this? Deoband's role in countering the perverted ideology of Pakistani based Jihadis re-used by IM factions is what the 2008 fatwa was all about. Do read about IM's origin. If you knew the difference between Jamaat Islami and Deoband a school of thought I would'nt have to waste so much time explaininig this simple difference. But you see its important to understand where the ideological fountainhead comes from.
Who is the Indian Mujahideen? | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses
Yes, I think it will solve half the problems of India & Pakistan. Like I said, if Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband had never existed, the Taliban would have never existed. It's as simple as that my friend.
You are wrong then. Like I gave you the links earlier, Deoband scholars have condemened Taliban actions, they have condemned the so called Jihad in Kashmir and they have opposed the use of religion for political purposes by the Pakistani army and intelligence establishment.
But no change, why, because the army/intelligence establishment belives it can use this religious political agenda is keeping Pakistan intact, getting recruits to die and kill people and ofcourse maintaining its overall control over Pakistan and prevent the establishment of a true democracy. It would't matter if Deoband had never existed because the Army/intelligence establishment had used the Jamaat Islami in the first place and they would have used Barelvis to fund their Jihad. When the state wants a reason to use political religious ideology, there is no stopping them.
Deoband wants to score brownie points in front of the Indian people & the government by condemning terrorism ALLEGEDLY coming from Pakistan. An anti-Pakistan stance will serve them brownie points. You have admitted yourself that SIMI got ideological support from Jamaat-e-Islami Hind in India. The JI Pakistan is a registered party, Qazi Hussein Ahmed is free from any blame, he hasn't been indicted in anyway. So again, you rely on your constant habit of quoting hearsay & your fairytale thoughts.
Qazi Hussain Ahmed has a history of pimping out the Jamat Islami to the Pakistani army/intelligence establishment. This is what the original workers and karkuns of JI who worked with Maududi and his son even today. It was him and Zia that begun the descent of Pakistan in relgious radicalism.
And yes, the Jamaat Islami in India and Pakistan have had the same political Islamic agenda. Not Deoband which opposes the polical religious ideology of Jamaat Islami and by extension SIMI.
But while the Jamaat Islami-i-Hind has realised its futility and has altered its core program and turned into a social service organisation. The JI in Pakistan is still retains its preverted political Islamic ideology that is used as a tool by the Army/intelligence establishment whenever needed. There are plenty of videos of ISI personnel and ex-ISI people like Hamid Gul adressing JI gatherings in Pakistan and telling them that you are the protectors of Pakistan and that be prepared for Jihad against India. IF such blatant connections with ISI and JI are not proof of collaboration even today, then what else is?
And Deoband does'nt need to score brownie points. Its giving an opinion based on what it thinks is right. And the condemnation and the 30+ conferences with millions of muslims gathering held all over India as well as the advises sent to mosques around the country was Muslim specific i.e. targeted to the Indian muslim community first. The rest of the Indian and world community is only secondary to the message.
This is the reason why the US had itself confessed that Indian Muslims are largely unattracted to extremism. Isn't it weird that the centres of radicalisation as you might want us to believe are in India seem to have the opposite affect to Indian muslims, while Pakistanis apparently start frothing at the mouth for some imagnied edict from Deoband.
They talk about what they think & "believe in", just like you had intelligence documents that claimed Iraq had WMDs.
This is not evidence my friend, but their personal opinions of a man who does not have any level or position in the ISI. How does Saleem Safi substantiate his claims? How can we even claim the sources of his claims to be valid, even after they have been proven? It's like Alex Jones & Webster Tarpley, & Michael Moore conclusively proving 9/11 was a false flag operation, a hoax. If you call this your evidence, I am extremely sad for you. I was asking you for statements from high ranking officials, & all you could come up with was Saleem Safi.
Why don't you do a search for Saleem Safi interviews on Jirga with Col Imam (the father of the Taliban). I can't do all you research for you. Col. Imam was after all an ISI agent. Or is that also all hoax and false flag for you?
What about Ahmed Rashid and his book Taliban and Descent into Chaos? How about Benazir Bhutto talking about how she approved support to Taliban in an interview. You seem to be unaware of major events in your country my friend.
The local Kashmiri people call it. They can call it whatever they want.
I've already commented on Kashmir being a disputed territory, not Indian territory, something Pakistan fully claims. Let's leave at that about Kashmir. It has different circumstances. If India hadn't been massacring Kashmiris since 1947, Kashmiris would never have been radicalized. And that's my personal opinion. Let's leave it at that about Kashmir.
No they don't, proof again that you don't know what the locals think. Did you read the link wherein Kashmiri clerics included the Grand Mufti declared that there is no Jihad in Kashmir?
Except for the small extremist faction even the sepratists don't refer to it as Jihad and demand a secular independant state. Its only the Pakistani based propaganda that calls it such.
Admit it, you clearly didn't know what you were talking about when you started talking about Shia militancy in Pakistan. You clearly didn't give any factual, conclusive, substantiative evidence quoting any high ranking official in the world that says "the Pakistani government/intelligence supports the Taliban." You quoted a regular TV man who's claims cannot be validated as your source of factual, conclusive, substantiative proof.
My claim was about Col. Imam's interview also referred to as Father of the Taliban and an ex-ISI agent. Other ISI chiefs like Aslam Beg and Hamid Gul have both commented on his role. Khalid Khawja is another ISI agent. These are all people in the intelligence establishment and Saleem Safi is probably one of the most credible TV journalist in Pakistan.
Again, you have not provided any condemnations against SIMI from the 1976-1980's, statements made by Dar-uloom Deoband condemning the violence of SIMI. You say Dar-uloom Deoband has condemned the terrorism against the IM, but you have not provided me with one statement that says that the "Indian Mujahideen are committing terrorism inside India, & it should be stopped." I want that one specific statement my friend. I have proven that Mumtaz Qadri, the killer of Salman Taseer was not a religious man, he had affairs with women before marriage, & specifically a girl from Karachi. Tahir ul Qadri & Ghamdi have condemned the man on national TV. I've given you proof of how Shias, Hindus, Ahmedis, Christians, Sikhs, Parsis, Ismailis, Bahais & other groups have lived peacefully & full authority & freedom amongst a majority Barelvi society. You quoting a one-off event, that too by a person that wasn't religious & specifically condemned by religious Barelvi clergy is really nothing to talk about.
Please provide the exact statements that specifically say that the "Taliban actions were un-Islamic". I want these specific words my friend. Zakir Naik even refused to call Osama Bin Laden wrong or a terrorist on public TV.
Again, you are repeating hearsay and speculation by journalists that claim that the ISI funds extremist groups. Quote me any high ranking official in the world that explicitly says the following phrase: "ISI funds extremist groups in Afghanistan". I want that exact phrase quoted by a high ranking official. And the source quoting that high ranking official must be validated & verified for its authencity.
Check and mate.
Ok the rest of the stuff I'm getting tired of bringing the same links again and again and again. Articles about Jamiat-Ulema Hind holding anti-terrorism conferences on condeming all forms of terrorims from any source be it Al Qaeda, LeT, IM e.t.c. is not enough. What if some new group pops up tommorow, then Deoband should come out and condemn that group too? When a basic theological premise is established that there is no room for killing innocent people muslim or non-muslim, when there is clear cut declaration that there is no Jihad applicable to India including Kashmir and that Taliban actions are UnIslamic in clear cut statements what else is there to say?
A dawn news article
http://archives.dawn.com/archives/41418 that I posted in my earlier post was not enough for you. Here is an ANI quote of the same news event.
Taliban’s actions totally ‘unIslamic’, claims top cleric
And what does Zakir Naik have to do with Deoband? He has no relation with the school of thought or the institution. I think your sole purpose is to prove that somehow all the problems of Pakistani muslims is India's fault including their ideological inclination. A preposterous allegation if one was ever made. I know you might not like the Deoband for theolgically denouncing the Two Nation theory and Zakir Naik for declaring the Two Nation Theory as UnIslamic but these are facts. To now somehow claim that Indian Muslim institutions are fountainhead of terrorism in Pakistan is laughable. Because it is these very same institutions that promote and keep harmony in muti-religious country like India because they are not hijacked by the state like they have been in Pakistan. And one of the reasons why even US spooks had come with conclusion that Indian Muslims reject extremist creed.
WikiLeaks: India's Muslims largely unattracted to extremism
The Pakistani Army/intelligence establishment messed up big time and have caused immense damage to Islam in general and Pakistan in particular from its flawed policies of political Islam and militant political Islamic groups like LeT and Taliban for furthering its strategic goals. Its backdoor dealings with the US and the way it truned on its own children under Musharraf in the Lal Masjid episode laid the groundwork for what you see today in Pakistan. If you can't understand the cause of how the Army/intellgince establishment using political religious ideology and Islam particularly using the JI has destroyed internal cohesion inPakistan, then I hope that other people in Pakistan don't think like you. Because otherwise, it will be a long time before any semblance of stability will ever come back.
