Pakistan was created on the basis of group nationalism and not religion

[shuntmaster]

quaid e azam was no muslim elite, now dont say he was a british spy for godsake!!!!!!!

Jinnah was a shrewd politician and a brilliant lawyer. He was an intellectual elite, his life style proves it. The Muslim elite used him and he was more than happy to oblige. He knew he had no political future in united secular democratic India.
Just a list of the members of the top hierarchy of the Muslim League in 1947 will give you a clue what was their agenda.

 

[fida jan]

Jinnah was a shrewd politician and a brilliant lawyer. He was an intellectual elite, his life style proves it. The Muslim elite used him and he was more than happy to oblige. He knew he had no political future in united secular democratic India.
Just a list of the members of the top hierarchy of the Muslim League in 1947 will give you a clue what was their agenda.

u r just busted, gandhi and mount batton offered him to be first governon general of india but he refused...

 

[muse]

Gotta love it - the Islamican and his Indian master - the discussion is whether Jinah was common or elite -- Jinnah for the common man, Islamicans for the elite, trying to force their way on the rest of us - Islamican, future food for worms?

 

[shuntmaster]

u r just busted, gandhi and mount batton offered him to be first governon general of india but he refused...

Haha.. I told Jinnah was a shrewd politician. Its true congress and Gandhi were ready for anything to keep the country united. But Jinnah was too much deep in the Project Pakistan. He knew he would not survive for long as the governor general which anyway was just a figure-head role. If he gave up on Pakistan creation he would have lost his elite backers and his power base. There was too much at stake for Jinnah and his elite backers. It was all or nothing for him. Anyway, the undisputed leadership of a smaller nation is always better than figure head role in a bigger country.

 

[EjazR]

Wrong. Mullahism is the creation of India. The ideology of the Taliban is Deobandi. Deobandi originated from Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband in Uttar Pradesh in the 19th century, and it is still present in UP today. Most of the local Indian Mujahideen who cause violence in India also get "ideological ammunition" from Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband. Deobandis were against the concept of Pakistan from the start, which is why Pakistan was full of peaceful Barelvi Muslims, and is still full of Barelvis & Sufis today, & very few Deobanidis; although that number is increasing unfortunately. However, even today, Barelvi Muslims are still about 55% of all Muslims in Pakistan, while Shias comprise of about 20-25% of the others. You also have 5-10% Ismailis, Ahmedis & other groups. If Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband in India was abolished, it would solve half of the problems of India and Pakistan.

Are you serious? Wasn't it a religious Barelvi that just shot and murdered Salman Taseer and was then praised garlanded for doing it? And similarly don't you have militant Barlevi and Shia groups in Pakistan that equally are involved in killing and murdering rival sects as well?

The reality is that the militant political Islamic ideology used by the Army/intelligence estaliblishment used at times in Afghanistan and other times in Kashmir as well as to keep a check on rival political parties has resulted in the mess today.

If "Deobandis" in Pakistan are really so faithful to the Deoband in India, then will the act on the fatwa which declares that there is no Jihad in Kashmir? And this was not only by Deoband ulema but Ahle-Hadees and Barelvi ulema as well. And the Jamiat-Uleam-i-Hind has gathered literally millions of Indian muslims as well as Islamic scholars from around the world to condemn terrorism in all its forms for the last couple of years. Terrorism should be condemned in all its forms: Jamait-Ulema-I-Hind

And not only that, even Maududi (who was not Deobandi by the way) publicly declared that there is no Jihad in Kashmir and what the GoP was doing in was against Islamic principles (i.e. supporting mercenaries and fighting a war without publicly declaring it) There Can be No Jihad in Kashmir


The ideological orientation of extremist groups come from a militant political religious ideology and not from a school of thought be it Deobandi/Barelvi/Salafi/Wahabbi or Shia.

When the state starts supporting one sect against the other for political purposes like what happened in Pakistan, that is when you end up with a mess. If Zia had used Barelvi's for his political agenda instead of Jamaat Islami cadres, you would be making the opposite claim. And even then the spiritual centre of Barelvis is again in India, UP, Bareilly in any case.

Infact, if Pakistanis actually listened to centres of Islamic thought from India wether Deoband, Bareilly or Shia centres like Lucknow, Pakistan might have been better off by now. And that would mean first of all to wrap the so called "Jihad in Kashmir" and other uses of militant political religious groups in Pakistan by Agencies. Once they are disarmed and demilitarized only then you can go ahead and clean up the politics.

 

[EjazR]

Islam was one reason. Muhammad Iqbal and Rehmat Ali proposed creation of Pakistan as only a federation of Punjab, NWFP, Sindh, Baluchistan, and Kashmir... based on their common history, geography, culture, language, race, defense, religion, and economics.

Can you get me one quote where Allama Iqbal mentioned Pakistan? It will be well worth you time if you read his 1930 Allahbad speech because this is what you were referring to. He was talking about Muslim majority states within India which at that time in British India did not exist or those that existed were barely in the majority.
Read the speech and its clarification by none other than Allama Iqbal himself.
Allahabad Address - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chaudry Rehmat Ali is the only person who proposed the name Pakistan and separatism in early 1930s. Even Jinnah did not want it.

 

[toxic_pus]

We are Muslims, Islamicans are, well... they are Islamicans -- so yes, as Muslims we are under threat by Islamicans and their Indian masters --

How exactly are the 'Indian masters' of your Islamicans (whatever that may mean) threatening you, the Muslims? (Curiously though you chose to call yourself 'Muslim' in this context and strangely not 'Pakistani').

 

[Omar1984]

Well I am very happy and glad that most Muslims of India decided to stay back in India. 185 million is the maximum population we can have for Pakistan, and we Pakistanis dont like those Muslims who follow indian culture and go out of their way to impress their kuffar masters.



My advice for Indian Muslims is that each Indian Muslim couple should make 10 babies and make more and more babies so one day India can be Muslim majority.

 

[Omar1984]

Jinnah was a shrewd politician and a brilliant lawyer. He was an intellectual elite, his life style proves it. The Muslim elite used him and he was more than happy to oblige. He knew he had no political future in united secular democratic India.
Just a list of the members of the top hierarchy of the Muslim League in 1947 will give you a clue what was their agenda.

He was in his final stages of tuberculosis during the independence of Pakistan in 1947. Why would he make Pakistan for himself when he knew he was going to die soon?

 

[shuntmaster]

He was in his final stages of tuberculosis during the independence of Pakistan in 1947. Why would he make Pakistan for himself when he knew he was going to die soon?

That was one more reason for him sticking with the Pakistan project. Die as an undisputed leader of a nation rather than be dumped in dustbin of history. The Muslims elites agenda served his purpose perfectly.
Every politician will try to garb as much power as possible and stick on to it, even in death bed. Mahatma Gandhi was in a different league altogether.
Jinnahs TB was a close kept secret until the end, probably because he feared that his powers will be taken away.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Well I am very happy and glad that most Muslims of India decided to stay back in India. 185 million is the maximum population we can have for Pakistan, and we Pakistanis dont like those Muslims who follow indian culture and go out of their way to impress their kuffar masters.



My advice for Indian Muslims is that each Indian Muslim couple should make 10 babies and make more and more babies so one day India can be Muslim majority.

mind your words..the master slave relationship suits you pakistani muslims..and yes we too are happy that dirty minded people like you ended up in pakistan..give respect and take respect.

 

[Omar1984]

Can you get me one quote where Allama Iqbal mentioned Pakistan? It will be well worth you time if you read his 1930 Allahbad speech because this is what you were referring to. He was talking about Muslim majority states within India which at that time in British India did not exist or those that existed were barely in the majority.
Read the speech and its clarification by none other than Allama Iqbal himself.
Allahabad Address - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chaudry Rehmat Ali is the only person who proposed the name Pakistan and separatism in early 1930s. Even Jinnah did not want it.

"Personally, I would go farther than the demands embodied in it. I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single State. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India." Allama Iqbal in 1930

Notice no where in his speech he mentioned the parts of India that you Indian Muslims today say has lots of Muslims.

Allama Iqbal was the first person who thought of a separate state for Muslims, therefore Iqbal is said to have conceived the idea of Pakistan as a separate Muslim homeland. He was the first to introduce the Two nation Theory.

Chaudhry Rahmat Ali combined all these states together, mentioned by Allama Iqbal, and came with the word PAKISTAN (Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh, and balochisTAN). Chaudhry Rahmat Ali was part of the same Muslim League as Allama Iqbal was part of, they were working together.

Allama Iqbal also said "There is only one way out. Muslims should strengthen Jinnah's hands. They should join the Muslim League. Indian question, as is now being solved, can be countered by our united front against both the Hindus and the English. Without it, our demands are not going to be accepted. People say our demands smack of communalism. This is sheer propaganda. These demands relate to the defense of our national existence.... The united front can be formed under the leadership of the Muslim League. And the Muslim League can succeed only on account of Jinnah. Now none but Jinnah is capable of leading the Muslims."

Muhammad Iqbal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And we all know how badly Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a sovereign independent nation in 1947.

 

[Omar1984]

mind your words..the master slave relationship suits you pakistani muslims..and yes we too are happy that dirty minded people like you ended up in pakistan..give respect and take respect.

LOL. My ancestors were always in Pak Sarzameen. And yes I am very glad most Bharati Muslims stayed back in Bharat. Do whatever you want with them, it makes no difference to us Pakistanis. We are just glad we have an international border separating Bharat from Pakistan. Long Live the international border between bharat and Pakistan.

 

[Omar1984]

That was one more reason for him sticking with the Pakistan project. Die as an undisputed leader of a nation rather than be dumped in dustbin of history. The Muslims elites agenda served his purpose perfectly.
Every politician will try to garb as much power as possible and stick on to it, even in death bed. Mahatma Gandhi was in a different league altogether.
Jinnahs TB was a close kept secret until the end, probably because he feared that his powers will be taken away.

Another propaganda from an indian. Mountbatten wrote in his book that if he had known Jinnah was dieing from tuberculosis he would never had let Pakistan form as a sovereign independent nation. It was important that Jinnah kept his illness a secret. He was an intelligent man and knew the ill-intentions of Hindus and British towards Muslims of PAKISTAN.

 

[Vinod2070]

I know some people like being slaves to the kaffir Godless Chinese (the words used by these Islamists for the former USSR).

You know the staple diet of the Chinese, right? Want a hint?

BTW, Indian Muslims have only contempt for your advice. Keep it to yourself.

Even your Arabs masters don't treat you as "first class", do they?