Pakistan was created on the basis of group nationalism and not religion

[Mutee]

Mutee isn't your avatar basically haram because it shows a person playing the guitar which is haram?
And you also claim to have a gf yet you want a Caliphate where you will probably get lashes for your unislamic behaviour of having a girlfriend.

abhi mera jazba ishaq mukamil nahi hai woo dooray junnon bhi hai anaay wall Kay ma ruthoon ga or Tum ko mañana puray ga I hope you have the capacity to understand what is being said here

 

[muse]

As long as you are Secular and bash every muslim for being "Islamican" who dislikes Jinnah you can become a Thinktank.

Why be jealous and whine - but I think the reason you guys mouth off about islamican ideology as much as you do is that while some of you are Indians and others of you are either policemen or agent provacateur - that is to say your job is to entrap persons and report on them - it's very sad.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Why be jealous and whine - but I think the reason you guys mouth off about islamican ideology as much as you do is that while some of you are Indians and others of you are either policemen or agent provacateur - that is to say your job is to entrap persons and report on them - it's very sad.

So beside refuting those claims i made on Jinnah you give me above childish reply?
Let me ask you few question and answer them sensibly without acting childish.
Did Jinnah work with and for Freemasons?
Was Jinnah a member of Fabian Society?

 

[jayron]

We are Muslims, Islamicans are, well... they are Islamicans -- so yes, as Muslims we are under threat by Islamicans and their Indian masters -- Islamicans hate the idea of Pakistan which they refer to as Napak-istan and while Muslim Pakistanis hold mohammd Ali Jinnah as our Quaid e Azam, Islamicans refer to him as Kafir e Azam.

Where do you stand? will you seperate yourself from the Islamicans and renounce your Indian masters?

You are desperately trying to connect Pak's islamic fanaticism and Indians to scare away the mullahs. Don't shy away from the fact that they are Pakistan's own creation and India has nothing to do with it.

 

[madooxno9]

millions of people didnt migrate and sacrificed their properties from india just to see a secular western republic in the making, they had a lot in their minds

this is the ghulamana zehen which these people carry, thats why pakistan couldnt manage to go beyond colonial mentality

YAAR jo 63 saal phele aae the unka maan tha Islamic state bananeka , but yaar time has changed you can not stick to the same module and live in today's world . People who are living now ,they want change and liberal society , Toady with huge information at your finger tip , knowledge people are likely to question and challenge the identity and way of life and Islamic sate.., and this will create a resistance force and then clash in foreseeable.

I believe we all should walk with time , even little slow but in the end a society has to catch up with others and so the religion and way of life.

 

[fida jan]

YAAR jo 63 saal phele aae the unka maan tha Islamic state bananeka , but yaar time has changed you can not stick to the same module and live in today's world . People who are living now ,they want change and liberal society , Toady with huge information at your finger tip , knowledge people are likely to question and challenge the identity and way of life and Islamic sate.., and this will create a resistance force and then clash in foreseeable.

I believe we all should walk with time , even little slow but in the end a society has to catch up with others and so the religion and way of life.

koi banane aataa hai tu maar daalta hai saala america

 

[muse]

Indias and Islamicans share a common cause it's clear - on the one hand Islamicans try to discredit Jinnah, and on the other hand, Indians hope to discredit the Pakistan that Jinnah built --

 

[53fd]

You are desperately trying to connect Pak's islamic fanaticism and Indians to scare away the mullahs. Don't shy away from the fact that they are Pakistan's own creation and India has nothing to do with it.

Wrong. Mullahism is the creation of India. The ideology of the Taliban is Deobandi. Deobandi originated from Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband in Uttar Pradesh in the 19th century, and it is still present in UP today. Most of the local Indian Mujahideen who cause violence in India also get "ideological ammunition" from Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband. Deobandis were against the concept of Pakistan from the start, which is why Pakistan was full of peaceful Barelvi Muslims, and is still full of Barelvis & Sufis today, & very few Deobanidis; although that number is increasing unfortunately. However, even today, Barelvi Muslims are still about 55% of all Muslims in Pakistan, while Shias comprise of about 20-25% of the others. You also have 5-10% Ismailis, Ahmedis & other groups. If Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband in India was abolished, it would solve half of the problems of India and Pakistan.

 

[muse]

Jinnah: the man, the moments, the mission
Taimur Shaique Hussain


It is remarkable that a man of Jinnah’s financial stature could feel deeply for the downtrodden Muslims of United India. As one of the ‘priciest’ London-based barristers, and as a man completely hopeless regarding the calibre of his contemporaries, it must have required shiploads of courage to respond to the thousands of appeals to return and help the Indian Muslims, who would probably have sunk without Jinnah.

In the Quaid’s Museum in Peshawar, amongst a display of his photographs, clothing, shoes and accessories, is also parked the private plane that Jinnah and Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah would oft times use. Jinnah exclusively wore Saville Row. It is believed that, in those days of racial segregation, Jinnah remained a man whose shirts, shoes and accessories were custom-made in ‘white man’ boutiques. Advisor, confidant, sister, constant companion, Jinnah’s weakness in life (if any) was perhaps Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah, a lady with unparalleled external elegance and deep spiritual strength. The unmistakable taste, fine class and large heartedness of Muhammad Ali Jinnah is ably illustrated by the fact, bordering on myth, that he actually leased out the expansive Mohatta Palace for the Mohtarma to reside within. However, as a vastly successful professional, he had earned every bit the right to all these comforts, as opposed to our gallery of ‘leaders’ today, most with nothing to show as professional credentials, perhaps other than failed factories and mills, subjugated subsistence-level farmers, near-zero education and a shared desire to make a ‘killing’ from dabbling in politics sans any ‘leadership’.

It is a common belief that Jinnah’s terminal disease was one of the most sacredly guarded secrets of United India because only Jinnah could have orchestrated the sub-continental division. If the British Raj had received an inkling of the great leader’s illness, crafty delaying tactics may have aborted the inception of our country. Leaving us with the time-tried adage of, “unity, faith and discipline”, Jinnah left for his eternal abode soon after the execution of his life’s near-impossible mission.

Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah remains acknowledged to this day as a gentleman of great wisdom, wit and presence of mind. Anecdotes abound. There is the story of when the Muslims of Bombay had bought land for a mosque, paid in full and also secured with complete rights for the ceiling to be 40 feet. The Hindus had appealed to the municipality to allow a temple upon the roof. The situation was not agreeable to the Muslims because of sanctity, turf and ego issues. The Quaid suggested that the Muslims, despite ownership of 40 feet, leave the ceiling at 39. “Then you welcome your adversaries to build on top,” he is reported to have said.

Since Jinnah’s death, many self-proclaimed leaders have entered the corridors of power and have shortly disappeared into oblivion. It actually remains virtually impossible to even draw a chronology of the multitudes of the supreme presidents and PMs that have ‘graced’ Pakistan with their presence, not to mention the swarms of minions that have danced to their tunes in shameless sycophancy.

Muhammad Ali Jinnah, according to his innermost circle of friends and confidants, had always maintained a secular vision for what appears to be a quite different Pakistan circa 2010-2011. He was forced to face his own share of incisive questions – sometimes even ridicule – for fighting for a separate Muslim homeland. However, he always suggested, in signature Jinnah style, that the nation was meant for economic, political, educational, representative and ideological freedom of the Muslims of United India, certainly not for their theological fundamentalism and extremism. Once questioned by someone, “Shall Pakistan be governed by mullahs?” he is on record as having replied, “Well, shall Hindustan be led by pundits?” Jinnah was far from being a bigot, and certainly did not create Pakistan for his progeny — his own daughter decided to live on the wrong side of the border.

I exercise my democratic right of freedom of speech to mention an emergent national trend. There appears one personality upon Pakistan’s horizon with the potentialities of leadership, a man who was not only educated in the UK, he also achieved prominence in whichever field he entered, married a non-Muslim and was forced into politics through wide national demand, all the traits shared by Jinnah. However, he is also a nationalist, has gained no personal benefit from politics and brings with him the same amount of non-experience as Jinnah brought when he succeeded in turning the history of the world around! All others appear to be vastly experienced, but vastly experienced in failure and poor governance! Our leaders are busy dividing and ruling, furthering rifts based on party, religion, sect, creed, caste, provincialism, ethnicity and any other divisible denominator convenient. At the risk of sounding like a loyalist, I shall state that only one personality seems to appeal to the nation as a whole cohesive unit, is forward looking and urges Pakistan’s independence from neo-colonialism.

Here I quote what Quaid-e-Azam said while laying down his vision for Pakistan in an address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on August 11, 1947:

“If we want to make this great state of Pakistan happy and prosperous, we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. You are free — you are free to go to your temples, mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed; that has nothing to do with the business of the state ... in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims — not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual — but in a political sense as citizens of one state.”

Let those playing the politics of division to feed their vested interests seek their homelands elsewhere. Allow the common Pakistani to live in harmony as envisioned by the founder of our nation, who was just another common man.

The writer is a banker turned teacher and consultant. He has been the Editor of Aitchisonian — Centenary Anthology, and Senior Editor of the Wharton Journal

 

[fida jan]

jinnah never said the word 'secular', now start finding that word in jinnah's speech, i hope you will not find it

if the word can be found so easily, why u r copy pastin those articles which frequently appear in dawn news paper...

if jinnah envisioned a secular pakistan then why he never used the word??

 

[fida jan]

“If we want to make this great state of Pakistan happy and prosperous, we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. You are free — you are free to go to your temples, mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed; that has nothing to do with the business of the state ... in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims — not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual — but in a political sense as citizens of one state.”

the only quote the secularists and liberal extremists manage to find, which they think relates to jinnahs secular believes, but the amazing thing is that, islam also believes in such a thing, so you cant label it the secular believes of jinnah

 

[shuntmaster]

Pakistan was created by the muslim elites, for the elites. Originally the elites were the Punjabi landlords, who were joined by the bureaucrats in 1947 and later by the jernails and kernails of the fauj after mid 50's. The absence of land reforms in Pakistan is the biggest proof of this. Today the conflicts we see in Pakistan is essentially the clash between the elites and non-elites/wannabe elites.

 

[fida jan]

Pakistan was created by the muslim elites, for the elites. Originally the elites were the Punjabi landlords, who were joined by the bureaucrats in 1947 and later by the jernails and kernails of the fauj after mid 50's. Today the conflicts we see in Pakistan is essentially the clash between the elites and non-elites/wannabe elites.

quaid e azam was no muslim elite, now dont say he was a british spy for godsake!!!!!!!

 

[harsh1488]

Sir we have shared history no denying from me, But the shared history only starts after Ghauri invasion,

My source is Indus Saga which doesn't mentions anything about gupta rule, pala rule in pakistan, The book says pakistanis are different from indians, culturally, historically and ethnically.

We share only 500 years of shared history in the past 6000 years.

Our culture is again mixture of indian, arab, afghan and turkic while your culture is mainly indian.
Pakistan is just a mixture of different cultures and people.

I request you to buy this book Indus Saga and all you questions will be answered

Amazon.com: The Indus Saga: From Pataliputra to Partition (9788174364210): Aitzaz Ahsan: Books

have you ever heard of migration?
anyways the major cultural difference are only due to religion,
we share the same history from the beginning of civilization in indian subcontinent
and please do give me books written by pakistani politicians i can also send some your way

 

[muse]

Let those playing the politics of division to feed their vested interests seek their homelands elsewhere. Allow the common Pakistani to live in harmony as envisioned by the founder of our nation, who was just another common man.

Islamicans have a choice they can play "the politics of division to feed their vested interests seek their homelands elsewhere" -- or if they continue to be Islamicans it's difficult to see a future for them other than as food for worms.