Pakistan Using Heavy Shells - a First Since Ceasefire Agreement: Sources

[Armstrong]

Perhaps, but what is obvious is that whenever these exchanges occur, it is the Indians (government, media, commentators) who get all hysterical, whiny and aggressive - all rolled into one.

You've been 'threatening to teach Pakistan a lesson', 'shut Pakistan's mouth' etc. with 'double and triple the level of firepower Pakistan uses' for over a year now. Nothing's changed, and at some-point even you have to realize that the Pakistani media, government and military's calm approach to this Indian 'hysteria, whining and aggression' means that whatever it is you think you're doing, it's not working.

So just quit the prima donna tantrums - you're not going to accomplish anything along the LoC nor are you going to get veto powers at the UNSC with this attitude.

You know what could've determined whether Pakistanis were really up to no good or whether the Indians were up to their usual shenanigans ? A certain UN organ called UNMOGIP but maybe the Indians think that having World Yoga Days declared is a much better use of the world's premier international organization conceived for dispute resolution and inter-state cooperation than sifting fact from fiction in a dispute involving two nuclear armed rivals with years of acrimony and distrust between them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Entertainment for you ; Just VISIT your Border areas and see
for yourself the damage caused by our firing

It all starts when you try to send INFILTRATORS

SO we start firing ; and the whole chain begins

But we have much more MANPOWER and Firepower

We will WIN every Time

Whatever - just remember that it's your side that issues all these '56 inch chest thumping' statements full of arrogance, declaring that 'India will teach Pakistan a lesson' and 'Ceasefire violations occurred during Kangress time because they were weak' etc etc.

It's been over a year now - obviously no 'lessons' have been taught by anyone and the exchanges along the LoC are much higher than they were during Congress rule, which means that it is BJP's jingoistic and war-mongering strategy that has failed, in comparison to Congress.

The victor doesn't have to perform a Bollywood dance number on tree-tops, screaming and singing simultaneously about their 'victory', like the BJP government and Indian media have been doing for the past year, for their 'victory' to be apparent.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

A UN organ called UNMOGIP but maybe the Indians think that having World Yoga Days declared is a much better use of the world's premier international organization conceived for dispute resolution and inter-state cooperation.

We Have NO use for that useless thing called UNMOGIP

We dont allow them anywhere near the LOC

From the LOC TILL 50 KM there is ONLY RULER that
is the BRIGADE Commander of a sector

This UN nonsense is good for TV channels in Washington ; New York And Islamabad

 

[Hiptullha]

We have summoned your Envoy only once

You have summoned our envoy FIVE TIMES

SO who is COMPLAINING

Isn't it better to summon an envoy and communicate through diplomatic channels instead of leaping onto a table, puffing up your #56inchbreast and shrieking at the top of your voice?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Isn't it better to summon an envoy and communicate through diplomatic channels instead of leaping onto a table, puffing up your #56inchbreast and shrieking at the top of your voice?

No it is NOT

YOU can do it your way ; we will do it ours

After all we are DIFFERENT people ; that is why we separated

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

We Have NO use for that useless thing called UNMOGIP

We dont allow them anywhere near the LOC

From the LOC TILL 50 KM there is ONLY RULER that
is the BRIGADE Commander of a sector

This UN nonsense is good for TV channels in Washington ; New York And Islamabad

Careful now, I wouldn't want you to pop a blood vessel or two screaming and dancing in defence of your 'Brigade Commander Ruler Maharajahs'.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Whatever - just remember that it's your side that issues all these '56 inch chest thumping' statements full of arrogance, declaring that 'India will teach Pakistan a lesson' and 'Ceasefire violations occurred during Kangress time because they were weak' etc etc.

It's been over a year now - obviously no 'lessons' have been taught by anyone and the exchanges along the LoC are much higher than they were during Congress rule, which means that it is BJP's jingoistic and war-mongering strategy that has failed, in comparison to Congress.

The victor doesn't have to perform a Bollywood dance number on tree-tops, screaming and singing simultaneously about their 'victory', like the BJP government and media have been doing for the past year, for their 'victory' to be apparent.

The Word MODI evokes so much anger and Hatred in Pakistan ; WHY

He must have done something right ; he is doing something right

The thing is that the rules of the GAME have changed

You knew we had the capability even in Man mohan SIngh's time

Now you fear that capability

Careful now, I wouldn't want you to pop a blood vessel or two screaming and dancing in defence of your 'Brigade Commander Ruler Maharajahs'.

I have nerves of STEEL

 

[MilSpec]

@AgNoStiC MuSliM What would be objective of shelling for both sides.

Lets assume- India is at fault. India started shelling Pakistani position and Pakistan responded, What would Indian shelling accomplish...
And if it did accomplish something for India, why limit it to Kashmir. Why no shell in Rajhastan/Gujrat/Punjab borders? Punjab especially is densly populated....

Now
Lets assume Pakistan is at fault.
Why would pakistan selectively shell kashmir? Isn't that the perfect mechanism to provide cover fire to infiltrators crossing accross from Pakistan in kahsmir sector as the terrain is extremely difficult to patrol and monitor.

I would like to hear your views on motivation of each side.

From my understanding India only looses on it's narrative when there is fire exchange, whereas Pakistan stands to gain from from infiltration across Border.

regards

 

[shaheenmissile]

India should also target pakistanis with Bofor guns and MBRLs.

That will mean war in which India the oh so powerful shoopa Powah cannot win..
Because we like wars and enjoy a fight.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You know what could've determined whether Pakistanis were really up to no good or whether the Indians were up to their usual shenanigans ? A certain UN organ called UNMOGIP but maybe the Indians think that having World Yoga Days declared is a much better use of the world's premier international organization conceived for dispute resolution and inter-state cooperation than sifting fact from fiction in a dispute involving two nuclear armed rivals with years of acrimony and distrust between them.

It's actually an interesting phenomenon, from a psychological perspective. The Indians are by all accounts extremely proud (as they should be) of their nation's domestic democratic credentials, and there's even a 'reinterpretation' or 'reform movement' of Hinduism going around that seeks to 'cast the caste system' (pun intended) in a more progressive light, and even seeks to broaden the definition of Hinduism to incorporate almost all faiths into itself.

Regardless of the merits of the above, the fact is that Indians feel strongly about democracy and equality, at home - but this attitudes does a 180 when it comes to international affairs. On the global stage the Indians are simultaneously begging, demanding, threatening (with what only they know) the world for a permanent UNSC seat with Veto powers.

Think about that - the Indians are 'begging, demanding and threatening' the world that they be given enhanced membership in an organization that they themselves have undermined significantly, and continue to undermine every time they disparage and reject the UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir and UNMOGIP. This is an organization whose neutral offices the Indians refuse to utilize when it comes to conflict resolution with Pakistan. And their hypocrisy doesn't just end with begging and demanding enhanced status in an organization they are simultaneously undermining, the 'reforms' they are demanding (that would lead to permanent UNSC status with veto powers) would only strengthen and perpetuate the completely undemocratic nature of the P5 in the SC, and only further exacerbate the global 'caste system'.

Why would a people so strongly supportive of democracy, and against the evils of the caste system as traditionally understood, at home be so adamantly undemocratic and supportive of a caste system in the international community?

Should be a fascinating psychology project don't you think?

 

[[Bregs]]

This madness should stop from both sides as it will never achieve any tangible gain on ground except killing innocent people or duty bound army men

 

[Spectre]

It's actually an interesting phenomenon, from a psychological perspective. The Indians are by all accounts extremely proud (as they should be) of their nation's domestic democratic credentials, and there's even a 'reinterpretation' or 'reform movement' of Hinduism going around that seeks to 'cast the caste system' (pun intended) in a more progressive light, and even seeks to broaden the definition of Hinduism to incorporate almost all faiths into itself.

Regardless of the merits of the above, the fact is that Indians feel strongly about democracy and equality, at home - but this attitudes does a 180 when it comes to international affairs. On the global stage the Indians are simultaneously begging, demanding, threatening (with what only they know) the world for a permanent UNSC seat with Veto powers.

Think about that - the Indians are 'begging, demanding and threatening' the world that they be given enhanced membership in an organization that they themselves have undermined significantly, and continue to undermine every time they disparage and reject the UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir and UNMOGIP. This is an organization whose neutral offices the Indians refuse to utilize when it comes to conflict resolution with Pakistan. And their hypocrisy doesn't just end with begging and demanding enhanced status in an organization they are simultaneously undermining, the 'reforms' they are demanding (that would lead to permanent UNSC status with veto powers) would only strengthen and perpetuate the completely undemocratic nature of the P5 in the SC, and only further exacerbate the global 'caste system'.

Why would a people so strongly supportive of democracy, and against the evils of the caste system as traditionally understood, at home be so adamantly undemocratic and supportive of a caste system in the international community?

Should be a fascinating psychology project don't you think?

Nothing too complex, the plain old colonial/pre-colonial insecurities of being lorded over leading to over - compensation. This is not exclusive to India alone but applies quite equally to many other erstwhile colonies who excel at a similar breast-beating behavior.

Would take some time (50 years) for India to excise its demons comprehensively and come across as a self confident assertive nation.

I appreciate your point about UNSC lobbying as an example of schizophrenic behavior exhibited by India but then we all have a chip on our block in some form or the other.

My comments are restricted solely to India and does not extend to Pakistan in order to avoid trollish rebuttals. but Pakistan zeitgeist is a fascinating subject too requiring informed debate as it is quite different from India's and does not seem to fit any obvious profiles.

 

[Armstrong]

It's actually an interesting phenomenon, from a psychological perspective. The Indians are by all accounts extremely proud (as they should be) of their nation's domestic democratic credentials, and there's even a 'reinterpretation' or 'reform movement' of Hinduism going around that seeks to 'cast the caste system' (pun intended) in a more progressive light, and even seeks to broaden the definition of Hinduism to incorporate almost all faiths into itself.

Regardless of the merits of the above, the fact is that Indians feel strongly about democracy and equality, at home - but this attitudes does a 180 when it comes to international affairs. On the global stage the Indians are simultaneously begging, demanding, threatening (with what only they know) the world for a permanent UNSC seat with Veto powers.

Think about that - the Indians are 'begging, demanding and threatening' the world that they be given enhanced membership in an organization that they themselves have undermined significantly, and continue to undermine every time they disparage and reject the UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir and UNMOGIP. This is an organization whose neutral offices the Indians refuse to utilize when it comes to conflict resolution with Pakistan. And their hypocrisy doesn't just end with begging and demanding enhanced status in an organization they are simultaneously undermining, the 'reforms' they are demanding (that would lead to permanent UNSC status with veto powers) would only strengthen and perpetuate the completely undemocratic nature of the P5 in the SC, and only further exacerbate the global 'caste system'.

Why would a people so strongly supportive of democracy, and against the evils of the caste system as traditionally understood, at home be so adamantly undemocratic and supportive of a caste system in the international community?

Should be a fascinating psychology project don't you think?

Its called realpolitik and to be honest you can't blame them for being hypocritical as thats the smart thing to do.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

My comments are restricted solely to India and does not extend to Pakistan in order to avoid trollish rebuttals. but Pakistan zeitgeist is a fascinating subject too requiring informed debate as it is quite different from India's.

Oh you'll have no quarrel from me in arguing that Pakistan's zeitgeist offers up dillema's and contradictions galore - ours are far more damaging because the repercussions are domestic, tangible and capable of ripping apart nations and peoples in the image of Somalia and Iraq. In contrast, India's contradictions are more abstract and relatively harmless (domestically), a result of a pursuit of 'greater global standing and authority by virtue of a nameplate/medal/trophy/seat at the table' etc.

 

[Spectre]

Oh you'll have no quarrel from me in arguing that Pakistan's zeitgeist offers up dillema's and contradictions galore - ours are far more damaging because the repercussions are domestic, tangible and capable of ripping apart nations and peoples in the image of Somalia and Iraq. In contrast, India's contradictions are more abstract and relatively harmless (domestically), a result of a pursuit of 'greater global standing and authority by virtue of a nameplate/medal/trophy/seat at the table' etc.

My primary motivation in joining PDF was to understand a little bit about Pakistan's psyche but so far I am more confused than ever