Pakistan-US hold consultations over strategic defence dialogue: ISPR

[PakPrinciples]

Brother we are not pursuing our policies , but are being used .

They very well understand history. In fact better then several people giving suggestions here. We are pretty much the only country which manages to gets weapons from USA and China and Russia at the same time. And still pursue polices on which we think benefits us.

Whether we like the US or not, it is not in our interest to make a foe out of it.

Unfortunately Pakistan's leadership. both military and civilian. have not pursued Pakistan's interests in a very long time and they still aren't able to.

There is literally no benefit to being a US "ally". Pakistan's leadership are so spineless they even work for free now after the US whittled down military AID to a trickle Trump cancelled whatever little remained back in 2018:
Why Trump cut millions in military aid to Pakistan

Mind you this is after 24 Pakistani soldiers were brutally murdered at the hands of American terrorists at Salala:

Those men deserved a lot more than a mere 6 months block of NATO supply lines, never even shut down the air transit corridor, and they died because the Army leadership prevented them from returning fire.

The US is a nation that has betrayed us in both 1962 and 1965 threatening us or placing sanctions on our country if we went after our interests in Kashmir which is after signing the 1954 Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement with us, in 1971 threatening China to keep out of the war and doing nothing as uSSR trained marxists attacked our troops, etc...

Why did we enter the US' "war of terror" on Afghanistan? Musharraf himself admits we were forced to under threat of assault.

Yet since 1990s neither Musharraf nor Nawaz Sharif nor Zardari ever attempted to lift our nations out of poverty to mount a counter attack and extricate ourselves from their cancerous embrace. I appreciate Khan's realization of this but why is Khan so fixated on a welfare society that has already existed under Nawaz Sharif and Zardari via an overvalued rupee that literally amounted to a subsidy on everything for everyone?

Most of our current economic problems stem from Musharraf's leadership made worse by Zardari and Nawaz Sharif and Khan and the PTI aren't doing much different.

These aren't people that are working towards a strong and independent Pakistan.

pakistan needs to work and get into china import market, we failed to diversify
chian imports alot of stuff, we need to try to leverage into that market
we also need to focus on africa, the new frontier and Latin merica

You'll need tax collection and investment into domestic industries to diversify them and grow not just to replace imports but also export.

Nawaz Sharif and Musharaff's neoliberal economic policies stripped a lot of our tariffs that accounted for something like ~4% of our GDP in tax revenues as did our plethora of useless FTA's like the one to China which is why our tax to GDP ratio fell to the sub 10% mark for years.

All leadership, current and past, have failed to explain the importance of taxation to the population and invest in the FBR to raise the necessary revenues required.

in a few days assuming he can survive article 25 or another impeachment next week.

I guess anything is possible and the Republican response will indicate which direction they want to go.

I personally don't see Pence evoking Article 25 so they will likely have to try to impeach but I doubt most Republicans will support it so they wouldn't get the 2/3 majority they need in the Senate.

As far as I know no US President has ever been convicted in the Senate and I doubt Republicans want that shame hanging over them.

I don't think they even have enough time to pursue this with Trump likely leaving before the Senate could hold a trial.

This idea of impeaching Trump once he's out of office is far fetched to me.

Even if there are a lot of Republicans senators that are sick of Trump imo it would only weaken them to support an impeachment. Trump is a powerful force in the Republican party right now whether he remains so we'll have to see:
Poll: Majority of Republicans would support Trump in 2024

If Republicans did support impeaching him that would be a HUGE gamble.

Republicans would be risking the 2022 Senate elections where a lot of Republican incumbents will be running for re-election, some are retiring and their replacements will likely seek Trumps support and there are some important seats that will be up for grabs like Warnock's in Georgia and Kelly in Arizona.

Trump would be important for raising money and getting voters out and a Republican base angry over a "stolen" election is a powerful motivator.

 

[GumNaam]

Pakistan Army is simply conveying the government's grave concerns regarding the risks of american nukes falling into the wrong hands like white supremacists like the kkk.

@SQ8 I expect more Obama-style machinations with Biden, but with a focus on blunting AZM.

I don't think the US has an issue with the idea of a FGFA, but the risk of a heavyweight attacker (WS-10/WS-15-powered) is likely a concern.

It wouldn't surprise me if South Korea suddenly comes up one day and says, "we got US approval to sell you the KFX." This way, the PAF gets its NGFA (along Western lines no less), and the US still controls the weapons and upgrade supply-line, and all without letting go of its most sensitive technology in the F-35.

its out of america's hands now. they can't blunt anything in the AZM project even if their lives depended on it. there is literally nothing that is "made is usa" or "made in europe" in the JFT and there won't be anything that is "made in usa" or "made in europe" in the 5th generation fighter AZM produces. even economically, with near 30 countries dependent on Pakistan for their trade routes, america can't do much economically either.

 

[IceCold]

Until recently, our defence ties with China weren't a huge factor to the technological capability of our military.

In other words, the US didn't care about the F-7PGs we got, or even the fact that we got JF-17s and SD-10s.

However from now and in the next 10 years, the PAF can get things like a VLRAAM with cutting-edge seeker tech, a next-gen stealth fighter, long-range SAMs, and so on.

The issue is that whatever issues the US is facing with China, the Indians will face similar complexity (if not more) with us. This is a game-changer because it could make Pakistan an issue for both India and, potentially, even the US.

The goal is likely to contain proliferation, either by pressuring the Chinese or getting us to play ball (again). How the latter happens, I don't know... It could be carrots, or canes, or to the 'right people,' candy canes.

If we understand this, i am sure people at the decision making does too even better, unless we are run by traitors which i believe we are not specifically now in the current setup.
US cannot offer us something that would or can make us compromise on our core interest. We did not compromise when we were at our weakest run by most corrupt regimes. Today the game has changed entirely.

 

[mingle]

All Talk , no substance

What Pak looking in near term?
Zulus
ATAK engine release
Vipers new and used current fleet V upgrades
Used Maxxpros from Afghanistan

 

[KaiserX]

Stupid idiots on this forum will complain. Had it not been for the US aid of 50+bn until 1990 alone PAKISTAN would not have survived. Thats a fact.

Pakistanis have a habbit of biting the hand that feeds them. US has given 100bn+ in aid to Pakistan since 1947, KSA/UAE has given 20bn+ since 1947. Very few nations have gotten the aid that Pakistan has gotten from overseas. Absolutely 0 nations today other than Pakistan are still in pitiful hell even after so much aid.

Germany, Japan, South Korea, Vietnman are all examples of nations that stopped bitching and actually tried to imprpve themselves whether from the US or formulating their own policy, and look at them today. It is not about being anti-US it is simply about learning to stand on your own feet before hating on the US who has helped you for free more than China itself.

Our policy of being anti-US, anti-Israel, anti-West has got us absolutely nothing, The reality is those people feel so bad for us that even if we went begging today for help they wouuld still support us out of pitty as they have done for the last 7 decades.. that is reality.

 

[Mrc]

I feel that there shud not be direct military to military contact with US

 

[Thorough Pro]

F IT

Pakistan-US hold consultations over strategic defence dialogue: ISPR
US reaffirms commitment to long-term, mutually beneficial security partnership with Pakistan


Our Correspondent January 08, 2021

A US delegation, led by Mr David Helvey, Assistant Secretary of Defence for Indo-Pacific Security Affairs, visited the General Headquarters (GHQ) on Thursday to hold formal consultations on Pakistan-US Strategic Level Defence Dialogue
RAWALPINDI:
A US delegation visited the General Headquarters (GHQ) on Thursday to hold formal consultations on Pakistan-US Strategic Level Defence Dialogue, said a statement by the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR).
The US delegation was headed by Indo-Pacific Security Affairs Assistant Secretary of Defence David Hevley, whereas the Pakistan's delegation was led by Chief of General Staff Lt General Sahir Shamshad Mirza.
Both sides exchanged views on regional security, deepening of bilateral defence and security ties, as well as military cooperation, the ISPR added.
According to the statement, David Hevley reaffirmed the United States' commitment to a long-term, mutually beneficial security partnership with Pakistan and thanked Lt Gen Mirza for Pakistan's pivotal role in supporting Afghanistan peace negotiations.
The US envoy discussed opportunities for strengthening cooperation on counterterrorism and the urgency of reducing violence, restarting meaningful negotiations between Islamic Republic negotiators and the Taliban.
A day before crucial intra-Afghan talks set to resume in Doha, the top US diplomat, spearheading peace efforts, visited Pakistan, on January 4, and met Army Chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa and DG ISI Lt-Gen Faiz Hameed.
Soon after his meeting with the Pakistani authorities, Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad called for a peace deal as well as a ceasefire at the earliest amid the continued violence in Afghanistan.
The meeting between Ambassador Khalilzad and the Pakistani military leadership focused on the “overall regional security situation with particular reference to ongoing Afghan reconciliation,” according to the official handout issued by the ISPR.

US reaffirms security partnership with Pakistan | The Express Tribune

A US delegation visited the General Headquarters (GHQ) on Thursday to hold formal consultations on Pakistan-US Strategic Level Defence Dialogue

tribune.com.pk

https://twitter.com/x/status/1347483777665282050

 

[Path-Finder]

In other words, the US didn't care about the F-7PGs we got, or even the fact that we got JF-17s and SD-10s.

Forgive me but the Rtd Air Marshal Shahid Latif says differently that the yanks were not pleased with JF17 project. They did everything to create hurdles.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Forgive me but the Rtd Air Marshal Shahid Latif says differently that the yanks were not pleased with JF17 project. They did everything to create hurdles.

I think it's relative. Yes, at some level the US applied pressure on the PAF to leave it, but at the same time, the US could have thrown a whole lot more pressure on our partners to stop it.

However, Air Marshal (Ret'd) Shahid Latif seemed to imply that a lot of the US' issues had to do with protecting the F-16's IP -- i.e., not the JF-17 in of itself.

 

[Zarvan]

Hazrat Vipers are coming along other goodies

After Trump hostilities will be winding down as Biden said China is competitor while Russia is an enemy

Are you telling me or asking me ?

 

[volatile]

Carrot and Stick

 

[Path-Finder]

I think it's relative. Yes, at some level the US applied pressure on the PAF to leave it, but at the same time, the US could have thrown a whole lot more pressure on our partners to stop it.

However, Air Marshal (Ret'd) Shahid Latif seemed to imply that a lot of the US' issues had to do with protecting the F-16's IP -- i.e., not the JF-17 in of itself.

Ill take a detour, in the late 90's I attended a small talk where China as a super power was being discussed and one chap was making claims that years from now The Chinese will the dominant power and....they will unleash weapons that the world would not have seen in memory. This was 98/99.

Having seen China become what they have in less than 2 decades, I firmly believe that pressure from the US is no longer any concern to China or with each passing advent its not more than words that will go in one ear and out the other.

If I remember the vice Marshall did say apart from F16 IP that they were dead against it and wanted access to see the project which they had gotten.

 

[HRK]

Pakistanis have a habbit of biting the hand that feeds them. US has given 100bn+ in aid to Pakistan since 1947, KSA/UAE has given 20bn+ since 1947. Very few nations have gotten the aid that Pakistan has gotten from overseas. Absolutely 0 nations today other than Pakistan are still in pitiful hell even after so much aid.

oh plz don't give fake numbers

 

[Tomcats]

Until recently, our defence ties with China weren't a huge factor to the technological capability of our military.

In other words, the US didn't care about the F-7PGs we got, or even the fact that we got JF-17s and SD-10s.

However from now and in the next 10 years, the PAF can get things like a VLRAAM with cutting-edge seeker tech, a next-gen stealth fighter, long-range SAMs, and so on.

The issue is that whatever issues the US is facing with China, the Indians will face similar complexity (if not more) with us. This is a game-changer because it could make Pakistan an issue for both India and, potentially, even the US.

The goal is likely to contain proliferation, either by pressuring the Chinese or getting us to play ball (again). How the latter happens, I don't know... It could be carrots, or canes, or to the 'right people,' candy canes.

Yes proliferation of arms may be one of the reasons behind US policy against China but geography too as well as other types of proliferation plays a key role in this case as well. This is compounded in CPEC which is a way for China to escape the suffocating ring of defenses which the US has built in the Pacific via the island nations.
Through CPEC they will have an alternative route of security of their trade and ability to project but it still isn't the best option for them. This is what the US sees and knows is going to happen via Pakistan or other routes such as the Artic and others. Now whats going to be key here is what actions the US is going to take in regards to Pakistan and especially at this key moment of time when CPEC is slowing down.

 

[mingle]

Are you telling me or asking me ?

Asking Hazrat