Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

[Indos]

Forget India and their stupid Kaveri flop show. Point is share holding is regulated by company and tech transfer is regulated by government. How much strong connection you have They technology is guarded by government not the company.

Get your knowledge upgraded!

It is you who need to improve your comprehension skills, where I said TEI will get meaningful TOT transfer from GE due to GE 47 % stake in TEI ?

If you can really understand what I wrote, what I mean is that Turkey already gets advantage on its turbofan engine development due to GE high stake on the company. TEI advancement and current market is also due to its engagement with GE. Compared to Indian engine company, they are in more advantage position. Now India also want to do the same, if I am not mistaken there will be JV between Safran and Indian company, but this is just a plan that we should wait in term of the realization.

Many defense enthusiast already knows about Government technology restriction on their local company. KFX/IFX program also has shown it with USA rejection over 4 key technologies on KFX/IFX program that later force Hanwa Korea to step in and develope those 4 key technologies including AESA radar

The reason Indonesia cannot export KF21 from its local aerospace industry is also due to USA doesnt give export license for several US components on the plane

 

[manpk77]

It is you who need to improve your comprehension skills, where I said TEI will get meaningful TOT transfer from GE due to GE 47 % stake in TEI ?

You think we do not understand the meaning of technology transfer under such joint ventures?

US has denied sale of F35 to turkey earlier this year and the ToT you are talking about is a horizontal tech transfer. Which means, consultancy, Training, Licensed contracts and joint ventures.

The technology will come as a whole without know how. It will be installed on the aircraft. But If you ask about how it was produced, then they will not share.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[python-000]

 

[credence]

Pretty sure PAF will go for land based J35

 

[Ali_Baba]

Unique Sensor Setup Emerges On Turkey’s Stealthy New Fighter

Photos of the initial TF-X stealth fighter prototype show separate built-in infrared search and track and electro-optical targeting systems.

www.thedrive.com

>> Interesting that TFX will be the only 5g/6g fighter that operate a dual IRST / EOTS setup on top of and bottom of the nose - article well worth reading.

 

[manpk77]

How are we suppose to pay Turkey and how many orders will Pakistan place?

 

[That Guy]

Pretty sure PAF will go for land based J35

It could be a mix. Just like it's legacy fleet was a mix of US, French, and Chinese fighters. PAF could go for a mix of J-35s and TF-Xs for different roles. For example, the J-35 is mainly being built with naval operations in mind, so maybe Pakistan's Navy aviation wing could buy the J-35, while a mix of TF-X and J-35 could be used by the air force in a hi-lo mix.

 

[Dalit]

Forget it. Pakistan isn't getting the Turkish 5th gen fighter. The Turkish fighter doesn't initially have a domestic engine, but most likely a US engine. Pakistan couldn't buy a Turkish helicopter with US engine. https://www.dailysabah.com/business...turkish-chopper-deal-amid-us-license-deadlock The US isn't going to allow the sale of the Turkish fighter to Pakistan. India will make sure of that.

The only realistic option that Pakistan has is the Chinese 5th gen fighter. Not a single Western nation will ever allow a deal to go through with their subsystems.

 

[Dalit]

I think one of the reasons why decision makers in Pakistan have been reluctant to invest too much weight with development programmes in Turkey is because they face too great uncertainty and risk, from Pakistan's point of view.

Remember, the whole point of the JF-17 programme was to develop a sanction proof fighter, cheap enough to manufacture in large numbers to replace legacy platforms. The PAF is way too weary to invest in a major project again, like the F-16, only to see it grounded due to sanctions. You only have to look at the debacle of the T-129 acquisition to see this.

The TFX relies too heavily on subsystems from western suppliers, and even the likes of BAE and Rolls Royce have been contracted as consultants to help with the design and development process. Sure, Turkey is making effort to replace critical components with domestic alternatives, especially the powerplant, but that's still a big question mark, with all due respect to the capabilities of Turkey. If China is struggling to develop adequate powerplants for its programmes, it's difficult to see how Turkey can supplant the same challenges.

The most obvious and less risky option would have been to get onboard with the J-31/35 programme, but the lukewarm attitude of the PLAN/PLAF has probably impacted the PAF's view of that option as well.

It doesn't take much to predict that Pakistan isn't getting the Turkish fighter. As you rightfully claim, the Turkish fighter heavily relies on critical Western subsystems. Turkey isn't adding a domestic engine anytime soon. This is a pipe dream. You will see how Pakistan will be disappointed in the end. We saw the same with the Turkish helicopter deal. For years promises were made and in the end Pakistan was left red faced. No deal was materialised and the US openly denied Pakistan a deal.

Pakistani members that are celebrating this deal should embrace themselves for a shocker.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Forget it. Pakistan isn't getting the Turkish 5th gen fighter. The Turkish fighter doesn't initially have a domestic engine, but most likely a US engine. Pakistan couldn't buy a Turkish helicopter with US engine.

100% accurate. There is no possibility of getting Turkish jets equipped with US engines. Even if in our wildest dreams US allows then from where we are going to pay Turkey such a price and why would even Turkey sell it to us before 2035 at least as they will be inducting those in their own airforce.

I don't understand why we assume things like that. This thread was supposed to be PAC / TAI collaboration on AZM / TFX. If there's no such thing then we cannot become a straight off customer, we will be going for J-35 after a decade or so (only if india buys a 5th gen fighter first).

We can operate TFX only if there's some significant partnership between PAC & TAI which apparently is non-existent till now.

 

[credence]

It could be a mix. Just like it's legacy fleet was a mix of US, French, and Chinese fighters. PAF could go for a mix of J-35s and TF-Xs for different roles. For example, the J-35 is mainly being built with naval operations in mind, so maybe Pakistan's Navy aviation wing could buy the J-35, while a mix of TF-X and J-35 could be used by the air force in a hi-lo mix.

What you said will not happen. First, TFX planes will take decades to be mature because Turkey has never independently design and develop a fighter jet, let alone a stealthy fighter; Second, TFX relies heavily on all kinds of inducted subsystems. Turkey is lack of the core technologies. You have to take sanctions into account; Third, J-35 also comes with land based version which is cheaper than the carrier based version. This is reasonable, because land based version has less operation requirements.

 

[Silicon0000]

PAF will go for 5th Gen after India and TFX if India goes for F35 other wise its J35 derivative version which will also be acquired after India gets its 5th gen so we are talking probably 2035-2040 period at earliest and by that time these engine and other problems would be solved. so in short all depends on India that Pakistan will acquire J35 or TFX or Both and when this is going to happen. But if situation arise, things will definitely going to happen, don't worry about how.

 

[Trango Towers]

Ongoing headaches with F-35 fighter jets are rippling through the rest of the US military's combat aircraft fleet

The F-35 is meant to be the backbone of the US Air Force, Navy, and Marine fighter fleets, but it has become the poster child for readiness woes.

uk.yahoo.com

Lucky break fir Turkey. Good luck Greece enjoy the f35

 

[Kompromat]

Has anyone got any credible evidence of Pakistan being a part of this development of it is just Goss?