Pakistan, Turkey friendship rooted in history: Ayaz

[Joe Shearer]

LOL ... that is all I can say.

Opinions are like arseholes.

 

[Hellfire]

I tried to find it out why MA Jinnah opposed Khilafat movement....This is what I found :-

We can’t look at the Khilafat movement apart from ‘Hijrat movement’ and without keeping into account the fact that British always perceived Muslims in particular a threat to law and order; a perception many Muslim leaders tried to overcome since the 1857 war.

The background of Hijrat movement is that the prominent Mullahs gave fatwas that to save ‘Khilafat’ Jihad against the British is ‘wajib’ (compulsory) but you can’t declare Jihad onto the government you are subject to or paying taxes to. So, the idea was for Muslims to sell their land and move to Afghanistan & then take part in Jihad. So, the simple minded Muslims sold their property & belongings at low prices and migrated towards Afghanistan, only to be rejected.

Jinnah opposed the Khilafat movement for a couple of reasons, including it’s non-secular nature, Khilafat in itself being no more than a symbolic position more corrupted than any other instition & it’s ties to the Hijrat movement which was davastating to the families that took part in it. I believe it was the turning point for him to consider Congress not looking out for the good of ‘Indian Muslims’

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/158034-jinnah-tehrike-khilafat.html

He opposed may be because he was not of the idea of mixing religion with politics....These below links are also interesting regarding that...

https://politicallymuslim.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/khlafat-movement-and-founder-of-pakistan/

http://m-a-jinnah.blogspot.com/2010/04/khilafat-movement-1919-1924.html

Yes. The day religion got mixed up into politics, Pakistan was born! That hatred we carry till date ......

You got it. Am glad you took the trouble to search for facts and reach a conclusion after reading.

Unlike some members here, who don't understand when they are being taken for a walk, I am of a very firm and personal opinion, MK Gandhi should have gone with Jinnah, and the nation would have been united till date. Jinnah was a progressive and intelligent leader, someone who could have forged the nation in a much better fashion. But that is my opinion.

Thanks

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Wow! What books are you reading? Seriously, let know.

You are now cramping my (s)troll so far. Please read about Jinnah, his opposition to Khilafat movement, his distancing himself from Gandhi on the issue as it mixed religion into a purely nationalistic agenda, and the subsequent leadership of Ali Brothers, whose subsequent actions deviated the movement from non violent to violent actions and also, paradoxically, Hindu-Muslim riots at a few places.

It is the same Congress which has till date used the same politics, and briught secularism and communalism into mainstream politcs.

@Joe Shearer Why are you wasting time telling things to those who love ignorance? That is why, I was strolling till you caught me and censured me

@Farhan Bohra oh by the ways, before you attack @Joe Shearer , just ask him his family's (and his) contribution in making a new nation! Also suggest first read, no one is here to teach you or humor your ignorance. I suggested an author in my post earlier, start there.

And if, after my advice to you, you still want to tag him as a disgrace do so with the knowledge that you have absolutely no clue

Wow people like you are amazing. Which book of ethics you reading? Jinnah brought religion in politics is Kool for you?

Justifying his act as political? Spreading haterness on nationalist agenda is fine for you? Please have some guts to say black as black, and white as white.

 

[SouI]

Im sorry but the bold part I highligted shows you have no clue what you are talking about. Ataturk's vision is not in ruins and wont be. Erdogan understood that no matter what those ideas are what make up the country. After the coup everyone came back to those ideas and that vision. Current defeat of the Army? What are you talking about. Im sorry but please post things as if its facts when you have no knowledge of what your saying.

Reportedly Erdogan sent a lawyer to the constitutional court who has open views against Ataturk and his values.

Look I am also trying to trust Erdogan especially after the coup attempt, but what he did as a whole after that incident doesn't seem like supporting that belief of yours in your message in regards to Atatürk and his values.

Jinnah brought religion in politics is Kool for you?

He seems to suggest the opposite.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Yes. The day religion got mixed up into politics, Pakistan was born! That hatred we carry till date ......

You got it. Am glad you took the trouble to search for facts and reach a conclusion after reading.

Unlike some members here, who don't understand when they are being taken for a walk, I am of a very firm and personal opinion, MK Gandhi should have gone with Jinnah, and the nation would have been united till date. Jinnah was a progressive and intelligent leader, someone who could have forged the nation in a much better fashion. But that is my opinion.

Thanks

Don't you think Mr. Jinnah was of idea of united India - as he joined Congress first. But after seeing agenda and attitude of Congress, he decided to leave it and join Muslim League for Muslims...

Congress alienated Jinnah to such extent.....Mr. Jinnah wanted to save minority's rights so he gone for separate homeland. No? I don't think he just wanted to have separate homeland for Muslims in his hatred of Hindus....He might have seen that the interests of Muslims will not be safe under Congress and thus gone for Muslim league.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

I guess you do not know much about Jinnah,maybe do some research first?

I have great respect for Ataturk, he actually worked for his nation, also make sure his upcoming generation keep the religion out of politics.

But I am sorry I have differ opinion about Jinnah, he was the one that for the first time in modern world that used religion in politics as instrument for his nefarious agenda.

 

[T-123456]

After the coup everyone came back to those ideas and that vision

What does this sentence tell you?

 

[Hellfire]

Wow people like you are amazing. Which book of ethics you reading? Jinnah brought religion in politics is Kool for you?

Justifying his act as political? Spreading haterness on nationalist agenda is fine for you? Please have some guts to say black as black, and white as white.

There - black is black and white is white


For you my dear

@Joe Shearer you remember this hit sir?


And as for my guts ... hmmmm I dont have any

Hence am alive till date sweetie!

Those who have, live a very short life.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There - black is black and white is white


For you my dear

@Joe Shearer you remember this hit sir?


And as for my guts ... hmmmm I dont have any

Hence am alive till date sweetie!

Those who have, live a very short life.

I'm afraid not. Probably after 'my time'. This fool is wasting bandwidth.

 

[Hellfire]

What does this sentence tell you?

Newbies

 

[Farhan Bohra]

There - black is black and white is white


For you my dear

@Joe Shearer you remember this hit sir?


And as for my guts ... hmmmm I dont have any

Hence am alive till date sweetie!

Those who have, live a very short life.

Maybe that's why Mr. Tarek Fateh survived cancer ? Right? Lol.

Those who hold such view for whom religion in politics is kool for them, maybe people like you even unable to understand problems of current world.

Enjoy using tricolor while justifying Two Nation Theory.

 

[T-123456]

I have great respect for Ataturk, he actually worked for his nation, also make sure his upcoming generation keep the religion out of politics.

But I am sorry I have differ opinion about Jinnah, he was the one that for the first time in modern world that used religion in politics as instrument for his nefarious agenda.

That was not his agenda,he wanted a secular state,a good example is the white stripe by the hoist side of the Pakistani flag,it represents the nation's minority non-Muslim population.
He was not a religious person and only some time after his death the Islamists changed the name to Islamic Republik of Pakistan,before it was just Pakistan.
Even his daughter at the age of 12 used to call him ''Grey Wolf'' as a reference to Ataturk and the Young Turks,thats why i advised you to do some research.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@hellfire twe
@SarthakGanguly

A meaningless, vapid thread.

I noted with some amusement @hellfire 's enthusiasm on discovering this aspect of Jinnah. Ataturk was a very strong influence on him, and my amusement is due both to his lack of awareness of this very basic characteristic, and equally to the ignorance of all on this thread of the direct and fundamental contradiction encapsulated in this personal history.

When Gandhi supported the Ali Brothers in the Khilafat Movement, it was Jinnah who warned him, in vehement terms, not to introduce religion into the body politic. Look up that dire warning, and read for yourself the force and passion with which this essentially secular person cautioned Gandhi. We can safely say that this terrible step by Gandhi laid the foundation for the forthcoming alliance between the conservative Muslim and the ulama and the Congress, an alliance that led to their calling Pakistan Paleetistan, and jeering at Jinnah as the Kaffir-e-Azam. One of the main culprits was Maulana Maudoodi, about whom my limited vocabulary will fail to do justice; only the acid pen of a Yassir Latif Hamdani can adequately deal with it.

Meanwhile what has been described in a brilliant word as the Muslim 'salariat', led by the graduates of the Aligarh Muslim University, lined up with the Muslim League, as they saw a direct competition developing between them and educated Hindus for the loaves and fishes of office. They were leaderless and ineffective, except for British efforts to maintain their presence with tactful attention to the rules, and a positive disposition towards Muslims, until Jinnah returned from his self-imposed exile in Britain, upon which the movement caught fire and moved from strength to strength. It was at this point that the British Viceroys, from Linlithgow onwards, heaved a monumental sigh of relief and hauled up the Muslim League to a position of parity with the Congress, led, as always, by a completely unpredictable and idiosyncratic Gandhi.

It is interesting to note what a huge impact on the sub-continent these two Kutchis had.

To return to the point, Jinnah's vision was close to Ataturk's vision; both lie in ruins now. Ataturk has been betrayed by Erdogan and the return of Islamism to Turkey, and the current defeat of the Army, not necessarily a secularist Army, but possibly one affiliated to a different strand of Islamism, one opposed to Erdogan. Jinnah was betrayed in very short order; the nascent state left him to die in a broken-down ambulance, and soon moved to the Basic Objects resolution, which betrayed all his hopes and aspirations for his nation, including his faith in a confederation once the bitterness was over, and to the renegade Maududi's persecution of the Ahmedis, which led to a sentence of death for several crimes, a sentence never executed.

As a staunch admirer of Jinnah, not a blind admirer, but one who sees his greatness and his vision with admiration, while saddened at the loss of his great mind to the greater cause of south Asian progress and development for a narrow purpose which today makes no sense whatsoever, I am also wholly contemptuous of these hedge scholars who seek to co-opt him and his charismatic memory for their own narrow purposes.

A few days ago, a senior, sober, thoughtful member put up a book review on Churchill and the Muslim world; I forget the name. It was a brilliant review, by an obviously scholastically accomplished faculty member at LUMS, which might easily be described as IIM Lahore. I have already pointed out to a select few the harsh and dismissive terms in which that author deals with the illusions that our little shallow students have been hurling at us with the accompaniment of football fan vocabularies and barnyard imitations. Why @hellfire and @SarthakGanguly (whom I respect intellectually and socially as much as I detest his political alignment) bother to get into the drain to fight these battles I have yet to understand. I hope I never do.

Brilliant post. I don't know why you sell yourself short.

But then why was Jinnah so ambiguous about this business of state religion and the framework of constitution? He was obviously smart enough to know that the Muslim population was not enlightened enough to comprehend or conform to his views about the compatibility of Quran and Islamic values with a secular and contemporary constitution. Your average conservative Abdullah does not understand or accept the idea of sending a convicted thief to a correctional facility (instead of amputation) and with the fact that in doing so you're adhering to the spirit of the Quranic law but only in a manner that is more desirable and productive and one that would've been impossible to replicate in a Medieval state. So why not liberally use the term secularism along with liberty and equality when referring to the in-the-works constitution?

@Oscar @Azlan Haider

 

[Farhan Bohra]

@Farhan Bohra oh by the ways, before you attack @Joe Shearer , just ask him his family's (and his) contribution in making a new nation! Also suggest first read, no one is here to teach you or humor your ignorance. I suggested an author in my post earlier, start there.

And if, after my advice to you, you still want to tag him as a disgrace do so with the knowledge that you have absolutely no clue

So, a great family always born genius, never idiots. If you don't know there is word called evolution.

Afterall Rahul Gandhi also born in a great family.

 

[Hellfire]

I'm afraid not. Probably after 'my time'. This fool is wasting bandwidth.

1966 hit.