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Pakistan, Turkey friendship rooted in history: Ayaz

I understand your sentiments here, make a personal attack.must carry on, and see how much patience I have.

Awww, were your little feelings hurt because I used the word 'jeering'? :cry:

ruin a meaningful discussion between members here.

Meaningful discussion. :lol:

You're diverting the topic. Stop being so nitpicky. Yes, the Turks value and respect their historical relationship with the Muslims of this subcontinent, many of whom had left Bharat for Pakistan. If you want to argue, go ahead and argue and pretend that the millions of low-class laborers in Bihar and UP whom had to remain in India also played an instrumental role in the Khilafat movement and other uprisings against the British. :lol:

But do it on another thread. You won't see me marching into threads on similar comments made by Iranian or Afghan leaders on their 'valued relationship with India'. I won't start jeering and pointing out those two countries merely saw the subcontinent as a piggy bank which they could raid and subjugate when they felt like it. How about you return the courtesy?
 
Awww, were your little feelings hurt because I used the word 'jeering'? :cry:

Nope. Your attemot at flaming is not appreciated. That is all. Azlan Haider made a beautiful observation, I learned something new.

You, on the other hand, are not only contorting history, but also being a flamer. That, is oretty useless fir me.



Meaningful discussion. :lol:

You're diverting the topic. Stop being so nitpicky. Yes, the Turks value and respect their historical relationship with the Muslims of this subcontinent, many of whom had left Bharat for Pakistan. If you want to argue, go ahead and argue and pretend that the millions of low-class laborers in Bihar and UP whom had to remain in India also played an instrumental role in the Khilafat movement and other uprisings against the British. :lol:

But do it on another thread. You won't see me marching into threads on similar comments made by Iranian or Afghan leaders on their 'valued relationship with India'. I won't start jeering and pointing out those two countries merely saw the subcontinent as a piggy bank which they could raid and subjugate when they felt like it. How about you return the courtesy?

On the contrary, I posted a valid question and have engaged quite amicably with members who replied in a similar fashion.

Your rest of the post, is a mere rant and shows the intellectual bankruptcy and propensity to continue in your attempts to derail the thread and obstruct a perpetuation if a meaningful discussion. My sympathies. Happens out of insecurities and a wish to draw attention to ones self.

May I suggest that a dose of Tab. Albendazole taken to tonight prior to sleep and repeated after 02 weeks will do wonders for your Enterobius vermicularis infestations? Do try it.

Thanks
 
Nope. Your attemot at flaming is not appreciated. That is all. Azlan Haider made a beautiful observation, I learned something new.

You, on the other hand, are not only contorting history, but also being a flamer. That, is oretty useless fir me.

Dude, that post was basically copypasta. It used to be on the Wikipedia page before it got edited out for whatever reason. Just goes to show how little you know about Jinnah. Honestly, you shouldn't make claims about someone you don't know anything about.

On the contrary, I posted a valid question and have engaged quite amicably with members who replied in a similar fashion.

It's not a valid question when it's a completely unrelated topic.

Your rest of the post, is a mere rant and shows the intellectual bankruptcy and propensity to continue in your attempts to derail the thread and obstruct a perpetuation if a meaningful discussion. My sympathies. Happens out of insecurities and a wish to draw attention to ones self.

You used big words! :yahoo: Surely I'll be intimidated and accept whatever BS you spew. :lol:
 
Pakistan has no future with Arab, Arabs are their own Enemy...Pakistan's future is Iran + Pakistan + Turkey, sooner these three countries realize this better it is for them
 
Dude, that post was basically copypasta. It used to be on the Wikipedia page before it got edited out for whatever reason. Just goes to show how little you know about Jinnah. Honestly, you shouldn't make claims about someone you don't know anything about.

Don't recall writing about Jinnah. Nor making any claims. Figment of imagination?

It's not a valid question when it's a completely unrelated topic

I didn't quote you, you did, a flamer.

Except that those individuals of other religions were merely using the Khilafat Movement to forward their political interests, the same thing you're jeering about in other posts in this thread.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...d-in-history-ayaz.446122/page-3#ixzz4IVGx9EVb


Again a flamer



Awww, were your little feelings hurt because I used the word 'jeering'? :cry:

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...d-in-history-ayaz.446122/page-4#ixzz4IVH9beqq


Meaningful discussion. :lol:

You're diverting the topic. Stop being so nitpicky. Yes, the Turks value and respect their historical relationship with the Muslims of this subcontinent, many of whom had left Bharat for Pakistan. If you want to argue, go ahead and argue and pretend that the millions of low-class laborers in Bihar and UP whom had to remain in India also played an instrumental role in the Khilafat movement and other uprisings against the British. :lol:

But do it on another thread. You won't see me marching into threads on similar comments made by Iranian or Afghan leaders on their 'valued relationship with India'. I won't start jeering and pointing out those two countries merely saw the subcontinent as a piggy bank which they could raid and subjugate when they felt like it. How about you return the courtesy?



Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...d-in-history-ayaz.446122/page-4#ixzz4IVHIuYyT

So my use of 'big words'.

You used big words! :yahoo: Surely I'll be intimidated and accept whatever BS you spew. :lol:

Same as you above? Interesting.


Since you seem to be qualified on the subject, what do you think about the works of Syed Nesar Ahmed, especially his views on Khilafat Movement?

My contention, obviously remains, to highlight more of mutualism of political interests and evolution post respective independence, and similarities in the system thereof. By this, I refer to systematic undermining of the secular credentials of the Turk society and the Islamic state set up in Pakistan heading in the same direction, contrary to MA Jinnah's idea of Pakistan (obviously am not qualified to comment on that, he may have had some hidden agenda if one holds your contention in any value) as also the history of subversion of democratic values.

The brotherhood charade is just what it is - a charade.

Why did MA Jinnah oppose the Khilafat movement?

@PaklovesTurkiye Your comments?

@Joe Shearer you might have missed this thread. WAJsal was pulling me on having some fun here
 
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@hellfire twe
@SarthakGanguly

A meaningless, vapid thread.

I noted with some amusement @hellfire 's enthusiasm on discovering this aspect of Jinnah. Ataturk was a very strong influence on him, and my amusement is due both to his lack of awareness of this very basic characteristic, and equally to the ignorance of all on this thread of the direct and fundamental contradiction encapsulated in this personal history.

When Gandhi supported the Ali Brothers in the Khilafat Movement, it was Jinnah who warned him, in vehement terms, not to introduce religion into the body politic. Look up that dire warning, and read for yourself the force and passion with which this essentially secular person cautioned Gandhi. We can safely say that this terrible step by Gandhi laid the foundation for the forthcoming alliance between the conservative Muslim and the ulama and the Congress, an alliance that led to their calling Pakistan Paleetistan, and jeering at Jinnah as the Kaffir-e-Azam. One of the main culprits was Maulana Maudoodi, about whom my limited vocabulary will fail to do justice; only the acid pen of a Yassir Latif Hamdani can adequately deal with it.

Meanwhile what has been described in a brilliant word as the Muslim 'salariat', led by the graduates of the Aligarh Muslim University, lined up with the Muslim League, as they saw a direct competition developing between them and educated Hindus for the loaves and fishes of office. They were leaderless and ineffective, except for British efforts to maintain their presence with tactful attention to the rules, and a positive disposition towards Muslims, until Jinnah returned from his self-imposed exile in Britain, upon which the movement caught fire and moved from strength to strength. It was at this point that the British Viceroys, from Linlithgow onwards, heaved a monumental sigh of relief and hauled up the Muslim League to a position of parity with the Congress, led, as always, by a completely unpredictable and idiosyncratic Gandhi.

It is interesting to note what a huge impact on the sub-continent these two Kutchis had.

To return to the point, Jinnah's vision was close to Ataturk's vision; both lie in ruins now. Ataturk has been betrayed by Erdogan and the return of Islamism to Turkey, and the current defeat of the Army, not necessarily a secularist Army, but possibly one affiliated to a different strand of Islamism, one opposed to Erdogan. Jinnah was betrayed in very short order; the nascent state left him to die in a broken-down ambulance, and soon moved to the Basic Objects resolution, which betrayed all his hopes and aspirations for his nation, including his faith in a confederation once the bitterness was over, and to the renegade Maududi's persecution of the Ahmedis, which led to a sentence of death for several crimes, a sentence never executed.

As a staunch admirer of Jinnah, not a blind admirer, but one who sees his greatness and his vision with admiration, while saddened at the loss of his great mind to the greater cause of south Asian progress and development for a narrow purpose which today makes no sense whatsoever, I am also wholly contemptuous of these hedge scholars who seek to co-opt him and his charismatic memory for their own narrow purposes.

A few days ago, a senior, sober, thoughtful member put up a book review on Churchill and the Muslim world; I forget the name. It was a brilliant review, by an obviously scholastically accomplished faculty member at LUMS, which might easily be described as IIM Lahore. I have already pointed out to a select few the harsh and dismissive terms in which that author deals with the illusions that our little shallow students have been hurling at us with the accompaniment of football fan vocabularies and barnyard imitations. Why @hellfire and @SarthakGanguly (whom I respect intellectually and socially as much as I detest his political alignment) bother to get into the drain to fight these battles I have yet to understand. I hope I never do.
 
@Joe Shearer

You killed it ..

I was surprised with @SarthakGanguly responding.

Actually was taking a stroll .... refer communications yesterday.

Next was planning to the thread from way back in 2011 (?)

Now I must leave here, appropriately censured:(

:woot:
 
I always Pray for Pakistan and Turkey. specially in Friday our mulana do special prayers for Pakistan and Turkey.

Turkey is indeed a true friend of Pakistan..
 
There will always be attempts to downplay Pakistan and Turkey relationship for the obvious reasons as non well wishers hate to see this alliance.

Some will argue it's all for money or even arms and may even try and put a price on it.

If you are not a Pakistani or a Turk...it will be very difficult for you to understand this relationship.

This is true brotherhood, most if not all of this world don't have this privilege and will never have it or even understand it.

As you can see from comments here, These attempts don't bother Pakistanis and Turks.
 
@hellfire twe
@SarthakGanguly

A meaningless, vapid thread.

I noted with some amusement @hellfire 's enthusiasm on discovering this aspect of Jinnah. Ataturk was a very strong influence on him, and my amusement is due both to his lack of awareness of this very basic characteristic, and equally to the ignorance of all on this thread of the direct and fundamental contradiction encapsulated in this personal history.

When Gandhi supported the Ali Brothers in the Khilafat Movement, it was Jinnah who warned him, in vehement terms, not to introduce religion into the body politic. Look up that dire warning, and read for yourself the force and passion with which this essentially secular person cautioned Gandhi. We can safely say that this terrible step by Gandhi laid the foundation for the forthcoming alliance between the conservative Muslim and the ulama and the Congress, an alliance that led to their calling Pakistan Paleetistan, and jeering at Jinnah as the Kaffir-e-Azam. One of the main culprits was Maulana Maudoodi, about whom my limited vocabulary will fail to do justice; only the acid pen of a Yassir Latif Hamdani can adequately deal with it.

Meanwhile what has been described in a brilliant word as the Muslim 'salariat', led by the graduates of the Aligarh Muslim University, lined up with the Muslim League, as they saw a direct competition developing between them and educated Hindus for the loaves and fishes of office. They were leaderless and ineffective, except for British efforts to maintain their presence with tactful attention to the rules, and a positive disposition towards Muslims, until Jinnah returned from his self-imposed exile in Britain, upon which the movement caught fire and moved from strength to strength. It was at this point that the British Viceroys, from Linlithgow onwards, heaved a monumental sigh of relief and hauled up the Muslim League to a position of parity with the Congress, led, as always, by a completely unpredictable and idiosyncratic Gandhi.

It is interesting to note what a huge impact on the sub-continent these two Kutchis had.

To return to the point, Jinnah's vision was close to Ataturk's vision; both lie in ruins now. Ataturk has been betrayed by Erdogan and the return of Islamism to Turkey, and the current defeat of the Army, not necessarily a secularist Army, but possibly one affiliated to a different strand of Islamism, one opposed to Erdogan.
Jinnah was betrayed in very short order; the nascent state left him to die in a broken-down ambulance, and soon moved to the Basic Objects resolution, which betrayed all his hopes and aspirations for his nation, including his faith in a confederation once the bitterness was over, and to the renegade Maududi's persecution of the Ahmedis, which led to a sentence of death for several crimes, a sentence never executed.

As a staunch admirer of Jinnah, not a blind admirer, but one who sees his greatness and his vision with admiration, while saddened at the loss of his great mind to the greater cause of south Asian progress and development for a narrow purpose which today makes no sense whatsoever, I am also wholly contemptuous of these hedge scholars who seek to co-opt him and his charismatic memory for their own narrow purposes.

A few days ago, a senior, sober, thoughtful member put up a book review on Churchill and the Muslim world; I forget the name. It was a brilliant review, by an obviously scholastically accomplished faculty member at LUMS, which might easily be described as IIM Lahore. I have already pointed out to a select few the harsh and dismissive terms in which that author deals with the illusions that our little shallow students have been hurling at us with the accompaniment of football fan vocabularies and barnyard imitations. Why @hellfire and @SarthakGanguly (whom I respect intellectually and socially as much as I detest his political alignment) bother to get into the drain to fight these battles I have yet to understand. I hope I never do.

Im sorry but the bold part I highligted shows you have no clue what you are talking about. Ataturk's vision is not in ruins and wont be. Erdogan understood that no matter what those ideas are what make up the country. After the coup everyone came back to those ideas and that vision. Current defeat of the Army? What are you talking about. Im sorry but please post things as if its facts when you have no knowledge of what your saying.
 
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