Pakistan, Turkey friendship rooted in history: Ayaz

[Nefarious]

Arab Wahhabis destroyed the Khilafah with the help of European Christians. Political Islam and Islamists, not secularists, destroyed Khilafah...

Can you please point me towards more info with regard to the above?

Thanks

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Dear @Waqkz ,

I just saw this at 7:20 IST.

You are labouring under a serious misapprehension. I have not, personally ignored your posts, although I have recommended to those Indians who want to learn more about Jinnah to ignore them. I had read through most of them, bar one or two, and consciously rejected them. Your interpretation is different from that of the person I follow most closely on these matters, and whenever I have tested him with a seemingly contradictory piece of evidence, he has very convincingly and rationally bridged the gap. I do not know who Azlan Haider is, but he seems quite familiar with PTH, and in particular with the writings and analysis of YLH, and his exposition of the subject adheres so closely to that of YLH that not much daylight shows between the two.versions.

It is not that there is any personal animus against you in my mind, it is just that intellectually, I am completely aligned to YLH's interpretation, except in one or two matters, which are so intimately connected to a long-dead individual's innermost soul and value system that they cannot be tested, but must be accepted or rejected purely on the judgement of the reader.

There is no effort at presenting fairy tale stories or passing them off as historical facts, and there is also no question of our pressing bizarre and alien views on the history or ideology of Pakistan. What you believe is correct has been shown to be false by a far more forceful and eminent exponent of the matter. Therefore, I prefer to go with that version, an altogether Pakistani version, developed and presented based on concrete evidence by an array of loyal and patriotic Pakistani exponents, rather than yours.

I sincerely hope that you are not bringing me into the comments in order to somehow associate the view of Jinnah opposed to yours with hostile elements from India. That would be underhand, and I expect you to deny any such intention.

I viewed it as a personal attack or maybe demeaning me to not be intellectual enough to have a fair discussion here, anyways you have cleared it, secondly I am/was reading closely to many of Azlan Haiders responses and I sense a change of views within him, whether deliberate I don't know but a change none the less so your aligned views with YLH's interpretations can be challenged.

I have read many of your posts on this forum in the past and do view you as a very mature, thought out and a balanced writer here, if it was my intentions to bring out hostile elements from India than I would certainly not have quoted you sir maybe someone else, but that was not my intentions.

Can you please point me towards more info with regard to the above?

Thanks

It was Arab nationalism and valuing race over Islam that led to the Arabs siding with the west and trying to break up the Ottoman Khilafah, and those same were later rewarded by the west with their own separate pieces of states and lands, the very border between Jordan and Saudi Arabia was drawn by Churchill himself.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Arabs siding with the west

Arabs didnt side with the west, it was only several but very powerful Tribes that fought for independance.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I viewed it as a personal attack or maybe demeaning me to not be intellectual enough to have a fair discussion here, anyways you have cleared it, secondly I am/was reading closely to many of Azlan Haiders responses and I sense a change of views within him, whether deliberate I don't know but a change none the less so your aligned views with YLH's interpretations can be challenged.

I have read many of your posts on this forum in the past and do view you as a very mature, thought out and a balanced writer here, if it was my intentions to bring out hostile elements from India than I would certainly not have quoted you sir maybe someone else, but that was not my intentions.



It was Arab nationalism and valuing race over Islam that led to the Arabs siding with the west and trying to break up the Ottoman Khilafah, and those same were later rewarded by the west with their own separate pieces of states and lands, the very border between Jordan and Saudi Arabia was drawn by Churchill himself.

Omigod.

Nothing personal, I hasten to assure you. But if you have been reading my posts, I hope it has come across that I do regularly take a strong view about somebody else's analysis; that should not - normally - add up to a personal disdain. Though I have to admit that there are certain members to whom I take strong objection.

Yourself positively not included.

 

[Hellfire]

Both countries have brotherly relations and still there is a lot of potential...

You were missing for quite sometime. Welcome back

 

[hassamun]

You were missing for quite sometime. Welcome back

Thanks ...

 

[BRAVO_]

Your attempt to participate in the discussion is welcomed and noteworthy. However, your above comment with smileys may be misconstrued as an attempt at trolling.

While your attempt to infuse humour in a very serious discussion is appreciated, your post may be taken in the wrong sense. Hence, may I request you to head to the section on stupid & funny and continue there?

Thanks.

you were talking about historical relations between turks and Pakistanis who use a language calls urdu - extracted from Turk word .. Ordo and tons of other things shared by both nations and yet your are fail to see any historical connection between turks and Pakistanis ? i hope you will now logically give an answer rather than wasting any more bandwidth ..

 

[M. Sarmad]

Jinah never lost hope. ........

In August 1948, Jinnah said to Dr. Bakhsh :

"You know when you first came to Ziarat, I wanted to live. Now, however, it does not matter whether I live or die"

Dr. Bakhsh wrote in his diary afterwards that he noticed tears in Jinnah's eyes

(Jinnah; Creator of Pakistan by Hector Bolitho, p. 201)

And Jinnah died in a broken down Ambulance, like a helpless refugee, two weeks later.



Maulana Maududi held a thanks giving prayer and celebrated Jinnah's death as a day of rejoicing (Akhtar, Political Conspiracies in Pakistan, p. 215)

I am/was reading closely to many of Azlan Haiders responses and I sense a change of views within him, whether deliberate I don't know but a change none the less

Change of views ? deliberate ? Could you elaborate, please ?

 

[Hellfire]

you were talking about historical relations between turks and Pakistanis

When? I was not talking .. I asked a question as to which history? Please comprehend.

who use a language calls urdu - extracted from Turk word .. Ordo and tons of other things shared by both nations and yet your are fail to see any historical connection between turks and Pakistanis ?

I still fail to see what are you trying to get at. Are you suggesting that Urdu is derived from Turkish?

i hope you will now logically give an answer rather than wasting any more bandwidth ..

I shall definitely hope to give a logical answer if you can actually logically frame a question and post it for my perusal! So far, am not able to make out what is your question. Read the whole thread, sequentially.

 

[BRAVO_]

I still fail to see what are you trying to get at. Are you suggesting that Urdu is derived from Turkish?
.

if have no logic then dont keep carry on posting on and on ..i really respect some of indian posters in this forum because they make logic when they post .. but some ....

 

[Zarvan]

In August 1948, Jinnah said to Dr. Bakhsh :

"You know when you first came to Ziarat, I wanted to live. Now, however, it does not matter whether I live or die"

Dr. Bakhsh wrote in his diary afterwards that he noticed tears in Jinnah's eyes

(Jinnah; Creator of Pakistan by Hector Bolitho, p. 201)

And Jinnah died in a broken down Ambulance, like a helpless refugee, two weeks later.



Maulana Maududi held a thanks giving prayer and celebrated Jinnah's death as a day of rejoicing (Akhtar, Political Conspiracies in Pakistan, p. 215)




Change of views ? deliberate ? Could you elaborate, please ?

No such day was celebrated you are following typical lies of liberals who have and are lying over and over about Jinah and his views

 

[M. Sarmad]

...... you are following typical lies of liberals who have and are lying over and over about Jinah and his views

From the Horse's Mouth:



Founding of Pakistan and its birth is equal to a beast.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 31, Page 59, Issued in 1947, Pakistan.)


Mohammad Ali Jinnah does not deserve to be a leader but should be put under trial as a traitor.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 31, Page 63, Issued in 1947.)


There were three actors in the partition of India and Mohammad Ali Jinnah's acting was the worst failure among all.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 31, Page 70, Issued in 1947.)


It is forbidden (religiously) to vote for the Muslim League (headed by Mr. Jinnah).
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 27, Page 27, Issued in Pathan Kot, his native Indian town.)


Mohammad Ali Jinnah is the founder of fools' paradise and a great sinner.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, February 1946, Page 153.)


Pakistan is fools’ paradise and Muslims’ fiat government.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, February 1946, Page 154.)


Pakistan is full of millions of thieves, looters, pillagers, rapists and most vicious people.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 31, Page 59.)


Election campaign is a race of hunting dogs.
(Kotar, January 27, 1950.)


The Muslim League is an organization which is free of God’s fear and ethical barriers that made our collective social environment, worst than a toilet.
(Jamait-e-Islami’s Election Campaign paper, Page 16.)


Indian refugees are deserters and cowards who fought for a nationality but when the time for punishment came they fled.
(Statement by Maulana Maududi, published in daily Nawa-e-Waqt, August 29, 1947.)

 

[Zarvan]

From the Horse's Mouth:



Founding of Pakistan and its birth is equal to a beast.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 31, Page 59, Issued in 1947, Pakistan.)


Mohammad Ali Jinnah does not deserve to be a leader but should be put under trial as a traitor.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 31, Page 63, Issued in 1947.)


There were three actors in the partition of India and Mohammad Ali Jinnah's acting was the worst failure among all.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 31, Page 70, Issued in 1947.)


It is forbidden (religiously) to vote for the Muslim League (headed by Mr. Jinnah).
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 27, Page 27, Issued in Pathan Kot, his native Indian town.)


Mohammad Ali Jinnah is the founder of fools' paradise and a great sinner.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, February 1946, Page 153.)


Pakistan is fools’ paradise and Muslims’ fiat government.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, February 1946, Page 154.)


Pakistan is full of millions of thieves, looters, pillagers, rapists and most vicious people.
(Tarjuman Al-Quran, Volume 31, Page 59.)


Election campaign is a race of hunting dogs.
(Kotar, January 27, 1950.)


The Muslim League is an organization which is free of God’s fear and ethical barriers that made our collective social environment, worst than a toilet.
(Jamait-e-Islami’s Election Campaign paper, Page 16.)


Indian refugees are deserters and cowards who fought for a nationality but when the time for punishment came they fled.
(Statement by Maulana Maududi, published in daily Nawa-e-Waqt, August 29, 1947.)

He was against Jonah because he thought Pakistan was based on false theory of Muslim Nationalism which doesn't exist and secondly no thanksgiving day was announced on Jinah death and after Pakistan was created since than JI has fought for Pakistan even in wars unlike liberal scums who always have backstabbed Islam and Pakistan. Secondly all Jinah speeches make it crystal clear that Jinah never wanted a secular Pakistan but on the contrary he wanted a Pakistan where laws are in accordance with Quran and Sunnah. Lastly I would saying it again what matters is what Quran and Sunnah demands from Muslims not what Jinah or Iqbal or Madudi wanted and by the way have some guts also mention several scholars who vigorously supported Pakistan movement.

 

[M. Sarmad]

He was against Jonah because he thought Pakistan was based on false theory of Muslim Nationalism which doesn't exist and secondly no thanksgiving day was announced on Jinah death and after Pakistan was created since than JI has fought for Pakistan even in wars unlike liberal scums who always have backstabbed Islam and Pakistan. Secondly all Jinah speeches make it crystal clear that Jinah never wanted a secular Pakistan but on the contrary he wanted a Pakistan where laws are in accordance with Quran and Sunnah. Lastly I would saying it again what matters is what Quran and Sunnah demands from Muslims not what Jinah or Iqbal or Madudi wanted and by the way have some guts also mention several scholars who vigorously supported Pakistan movement.

You sound like a broken record !!

 

[Zarvan]

You sound like a broken record !!

No I sound like the voice which exposes west and their pets in here in Muslim world the liberals who are only good at two things one is backstabbing second is lying