PAKISTAN, TURKEY AGREE TO ENHANCE DEFENCE TIES

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

In theory there are a few financial ways for such deals, the problem is if Pakistan can ,with either one of them,sustainably fund these ''ties'' the Turk mod listed.

For example, how long can Turkey keep funding the sales to Pakistan with credits for those ''ties'' the Turk mod listed. Is Turkey financially strong enough for such sales methods to every country or all products?

Apperantly, the Turk mod is a dream seller. However, the question still waits for a pragmatic answer from both Turkey and the buyer side.

Remember 2002. The most "pragmatic" ones sank Turkey (140b GDP). The dreamers put her into the current position (800b+ GDP)....

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

There are a few issues.

1. Generally (not specific to Pakistan), Turkey will need to build a credit financing mechanism to back its defence industry. There are few countries in the world capable of paying upfront, the majority - especially in the third world - require credit to get contracts moving. The SSM even said on numerous occasions that the lack of a credit mechanism is a big reason why competitors in Europe, Russia, China, etc, have been able to get ahead of Turkish companies.

If your defence industry begins securing multi-billion dollar exports with business activities spanning years or decades, then building that credit mechanism (while issuing loans) is doable. It'd be the same model used by Europe, China and the U.S. But securing business and actually getting buyers repay those terms is essential.

2. Regarding Pakistan. It is ultimately up to Turkey. If the Turkish Govt' determines that Pakistan cannot even pay the term, then Ankara has every right to not offer a sale. Simple. However, even if Pakistan is unable to offer a billion dollars up front, if it can do it over 5-7 years, then approving a sale - with credit - could be a good idea. If not Turkey, then that business will go to China.

3. Extending loans and credit also gives the Turkish side some added flexibility on the negotiating table. For example, you can offer a loan in-exchange for having Pakistan secure more subsystems from Turkey. For example, instead of Thales getting the CMS contract for the MILGEM, it'd be Aselsan.

For discussion's sake, imagine a ship deal is worth $1bn all inclusive - i.e. hulls, propulsion, electronics, etc.

If Pakistan had all the cash, then it might only award the Turkish economy $600m for the hulls and propulsion, but the $400m for electronics and weapons would go to Europe. However, if Turkey extends a $1bn loan, then its businesses will get all of the work, and the loan will be repaid in 10 annual installments (so it gets its money back plus the entire program instead of just 60% of it).

4. Pakistan can do installments. Yes, it can't manage too many programs at once, but two or so big-ticket programs are doable. Pakistan had managed the F-16 Block-52+ and Erieye purchases via installments, and it is now doing Chinese submarines via the same mechanism.

What you shared time for and explained leads to my question in the end.

The fiscal situations of the sides need to be brought on the table and checked in detail. The industry, economical situation, possible risks and sustainibilty in a country decides the amount the country is ready to spend.

For example, Greece vs. the arm suppliers is a big lesson for everybody here who is ready to turn the debate into a personal circus, but coward to run away from facing the example.

What matters and ends the debate is the fiscal tables.

Otherwise, it will be a burden on the soulders of taxpayers in Turkey, or in the buyer country.

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Please watch SSM Ismail Demir interview. He clearly states that one of the big reasons we lose alot of sales to other countries is because of the finance options we can't offer and other countries can and then he states that recently we are working to solve that so our products become more competitive as an overall package. Nobody will buy our products if it offers same performance but another country offers much easier payment requirements.

Have you seen the man mentioning the countries and tenders the Turk defence industry lost? So...

Whenever an AKP member claims something, just double check it please. It may be true even a tiny bit, then compare the reason and result, in between you will definitely find a corruption. I can list their corruptions in economy, politics,foreign affairs,business, educaiton etc. by abusing the religion to go into minds without any intellectualy-challenging questions to be asked.

What matters is Turkey... not AKP(Erdoğan) or any other country.

 

[Basel]

Anti-Tank and Precision Strike Family Missiles of Turkish industry:

(Navy)Temren Block-2: 30km (Mizrak based Penguin equivalent strike missile)
(Navy)Temren Block-1: 17km (Mizrak based longer range strike missile)
Mizrak-UL : 8km
Mizrak-UIIR : 8km
Cirit SAL missile: 8km
Mizrak-O: 4km
Mizrak-K (Karaok): 2-3 km

No. 3, 4 & 5 are needed most for Air and land platforms.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What you shared time for and explained leads to my question in the end.

The fiscal situations of the sides need to be brought on the table and checked in detail. The industry, economical situation, possible risks and sustainibilty in a country decides the amount the country is ready to spend.

For example, Greece vs. the arm suppliers is a big lesson for everybody here who is ready to turn the debate into a personal circus, but coward to run away from facing the example.

What matters and ends the debate is the fiscal tables.

Otherwise, it will be a burden on the soulders of taxpayers in Turkey, or in the buyer country.

Absolutely. Turkey is pragmatic in business, so it can choose to deny Pakistan credit.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Absolutely. Turkey is pragmatic in business, so it can choose to deny Pakistan credit.

Turkey is, but apparently the government in Turkey along with some members here are not, as seen in their answers to me in this thread.

Emotions can not pay the debt as seen in Greek protests at Germany, but a rock solid economy can.

After assessment of Turkish economy/industry...Pakistan, or ''third world country'' as you said has to be checked carefully without putting some emotions into a business deal, in the worst case, it will be the Turkey and Turks that are to be harmed.

No offense,but when you show the fiscal situation of Pakistan is ok for the ''ties'' the Turk mod listed, you can show me the sarcasm and the emotion of proud in your post as above, untill then such post means nothing in real world.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Turkey is, but apparently the government in Turkey along with some members here are not, as seen in their answers to me in this thread.

Emotions can not pay the debt as seen in Greek protests at Germany, but a rock solid economy can.

After assessment of Turkish economy/industry...Pakistan, or ''third world country'' as you said has to be checked carefully without putting some emotions into a business deal, in the worst case, it will be the Turkey and Turks that are to be harmed.

No offense,but when you show the fiscal situation of Pakistan is ok for the ''ties'' the Turk mod listed, you can show me the sarcasm and the emotion of proud in your post as above, untill then such post means nothing in real world.

Exact a high return. It's a business transaction and it is your money going into a loan, so set the demands: (1) what % should go to Turkish companies and Turkish workers, (2) get enough of a downpayment before issuing the loan so that your risk is mitigated, and (3) ensure that the terms are kept to a minimum.

Sure, Pakistan is a third world country, but it is a big country and a comparatively large defence spender. It can work with financing terms - i.e. it isn't completely destitute. If you're going to let the lack of upfront cash dissuade you, fine, China will take lead, just as it had for other programs.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Exact a high return. It's a business transaction and it is your money going into a loan, so set the demands: (1) what % should go to Turkish companies and Turkish workers, (2) get enough of a downpayment before issuing the loan so that your risk is mitigated, and (3) ensure that the terms are kept to a minimum.

Sure, Pakistan is a third world country, but it is a big country and a comparatively large defence spender. It can work with financing terms - i.e. it isn't completely destitute. If you're going to let the lack of upfront cash dissuade you, fine, China will take lead, just as it had for other programs.

Kardeshim!! Some folks have trouble to get out of the mental colonization. They can't fathom that Turkey is no longer under tutelage run by boot leaking proxies. She is on the verge of playing the way "big powers" do. InshaAllah these sorts of deals with financing will be the new normal. And, very soon Pak will follow the suit. Reis Erdo'an wants to take the game to a new level by introducing local currencies in such deals. No wonder they sent SEAL commandos and F16s to kill him. "Imagination is more important than knowledge". When it comes to proxies, they imagine how to be even greater minions!!!!

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Exact a high return. It's a business transaction and it is your money going into a loan, so set the demands: (1) what % should go to Turkish companies and Turkish workers, (2) get enough of a downpayment before issuing the loan so that your risk is mitigated, and (3) ensure that the terms are kept to a minimum.

Sure, Pakistan is a third world country, but it is a big country and a comparatively large defence spender. It can work with financing terms - i.e. it isn't completely destitute. If you're going to let the lack of upfront cash dissuade you, fine, China will take lead, just as it had for other programs.

You do still avoid mentioning the fiscal situation of Pakistan. That is the only thing that matters right now.

We need the practice on the ground, not theory on the paper.

China can ''buy'' the deal, or all deals in Pakistan. I speak for the sake of Turkey that has many other options/markets with a decent economy in the world.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You do still avoid mentioning the fiscal situation of Pakistan. That is the only thing that matters right now.

We need the practice on the ground, not theory on the paper.

China can ''buy'' the deal, or all deals in Pakistan. I speak for the sake of Turkey that has many other options/markets with a decent economy in the world.

In terms of the fiscal situation, what do you want specifically?

Pakistan's annual budget last year was USD $42bn, with defence taking up around USD $7.4bn with 9-11% increases per annum. Procurement is split in two main segments, the maintenance, training and logistics side which is in the budget, and system acquisition. If acquisition is done via loan, then the loan repayment segment of the budget is used, which is typically 1/4 of the total budget (i.e. 1/4 of $42bn).

The Turkish credit issuing agency will need to ensure that the repayment installments are allotted for X number of subsequent annual budgets, e.g. next three years.

The rest is a judgment call based on current economic trends.

So ... Pakistan is a rapidly growing booming economy, but it is generating economic activity via CPEC, which is helping in secondary activity (e.g. real-estate), which generates jobs. The key to translate that into state funding would be to assess the government's tax collection efforts, exports or profits by state-owned entities, etc.

 

[DesiWarrior]

You do still avoid mentioning the fiscal situation of Pakistan. That is the only thing that matters right now.

We need the practice on the ground, not theory on the paper.

China can ''buy'' the deal, or all deals in Pakistan. I speak for the sake of Turkey that has many other options/markets with a decent economy in the world.

Can you please mention which other buyer are you talking about who has the requirements and a budget the size of Pakistan? Also, can you give me an example of where Pakistan defaulted on agreed upon military deals?

You represent the defeatist and a pessimistic mindset who has already made up mind about a particular situation and can't seem to think outside a narrow vision. What's your area of expertise by the way?

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

In terms of the fiscal situation, what do you want specifically?

Pakistan's annual budget last year was USD $42bn, with defence taking up around USD $7.4bn with 9-11% increases per annum. Procurement is split in two main segments, the maintenance, training and logistics side which is in the budget, and system acquisition. If acquisition is done via loan, then the loan repayment segment of the budget is used, which is typically 1/4 of the total budget (i.e. 1/4 of $42bn).

The Turkish credit issuing agency will need to ensure that the repayment installments are allotted for X number of subsequent annual budgets, e.g. next three years.

The rest is a judgment call based on current economic trends.

So ... Pakistan is a rapidly growing booming economy, but it is generating economic activity via CPEC, which is helping in secondary activity (e.g. real-estate), which generates jobs. The key to translate that into state funding would be to assess the government's tax collection efforts, exports or profits by state-owned entities, etc.

The economy, budget, risks, procurements in the planned loan period are the decision maker here; the budget on the paper sounds well, what about the economy, risks, procurements for sustainability?

With the current $1.85 b. ready in cash, what is planned to buy?

 

[royalharris]

To take care of the little brother of Pakistan,China sacrifice a lot
There is something that can not be calculated by economic gain or loss

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Can you please mention which other buyer are you talking about who has the requirements and a budget the size of Pakistan? Also, can you give me an example of where Pakistan defaulted on agreed upon military deals?

You represent the defeatist and a pessimistic mindset who has already made up mind about a particular situation and can't seem to think outside a narrow vision. What's your area of expertise by the way?

My point is fiscal situation;Therefore, requirements or the size of budget means nothing. the credibility of Pakistan does partially come from the deals in the past; but what about the situation now and the future?

I speak of number, which is realistic; no interest in emotional adjectives for such business.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Can you please mention which other buyer are you talking about who has the requirements and a budget the size of Pakistan? Also, can you give me an example of where Pakistan defaulted on agreed upon military deals?

You represent the defeatist and a pessimistic mindset who has already made up mind about a particular situation and can't seem to think outside a narrow vision. What's your area of expertise by the way?

Professional troll under RAW payroll...

 

[Syed Asif Bukhari]

My point is fiscal situation;Therefore, requirements or the size of budget means nothing. the credibility of Pakistan does partially come from the deals in the past; but what about the situation now and the future?

I speak of number, which is realistic; no interest of emotional adjectives in such business.

u can sell your defense products to GCC . They have plenty of money . just saying .