PAKISTAN, TURKEY AGREE TO ENHANCE DEFENCE TIES

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Treasury Ministry accepted giving credit (~400 million $) for Milgem deal. It is the first time Turkey agreed to use such a procurement system like US frequently does. It enables costumers to ease the heavy load of financial difficulties on such big projects.

So, my question becomes more severe.

I would like to ask you how Pakistan finance these ''ties''.

If you can answer pragmatically, you can continue listing those ''ties''; if you cannot, then please stop selling dreams.

 

[cabatli_53]

So, my question becomes more severe.

I would like to ask you how Pakistan finance these ''ties''.

If you can answer pragmatically, you can continue listing those ''ties''; if you cannot, then please stop selling dreams.

What's your problem dude ? Having some problem or what in your social life ?

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

What's your problem dude ? Having some problem or what in your social life ?

Feel cornered?

I asked a question that needs a pragmatic answer, but instead you turn it into a personal debate.

Do you have an answer or not?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

So, my question becomes more severe.

I would like to ask you how Pakistan finance these ''ties''.

If you can answer pragmatically, you can continue listing those ''ties''; if you cannot, then please stop selling dreams.

Installments.

Generally, the issuing party (in this case Turkey) has to thoroughly study Pakistan to determine if it can repay the USD $400m in the set period of time. It can also wait for an initial down payment before activating the program. Pakistan is certainly tight on funding, but the problem is worse in terms of its ability to put up USD $1bn at once for one program than say $200m a year for five years. Hance why China, the U.S., and even Sweden issued credit - i.e. a financing plan - for big acquisitions. When you think about it, there aren't that many countries in the world that can take on big defence acquisitions without some kind of upfront loan. We saw France issue billions in such support to Egypt, and a Japanese bank even helped Qatar with its Rafale deal.

 

[cabatli_53]

Feel cornered?

I asked a question that needs a pragmatic answer, but instead you turn it into a personal debate.

Do you have an answer or not?

OK ! Not quote me for any reason excluding management issues dude. I am really tired of your obsessive and arrogant style.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

OK ! Not quote me for any reason excluding management issues dude. I am really tired of your obsessive and arrogant style.

That is your place you just drew: no vision but dreams in real world...no brain but emotion in business.

Just post Tank burrels or details about them please, the rest is out of your league as seen in your imaginative sales to Pakistan with no money to fund.

 

[cabatli_53]

That is your place you just drew: no vision but dreams in real world...no brain but emotion in business.

Just post Tank burrels or details about them, the rest is out of your league as seen in your imaginative sales to Pakistan with no money to fund.

Dude, It is really enough. Not quote me anymore. I am not the medicine of your obsession and arrogance.
Those are the projects that is directly received from the mouths of Turkish institute representatives via a defense magazine.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Dude, It is really enough. Not quote me anymore. I am not the medicine of your obsession and arrogance.
Those are the projects that is directly received from the mouths of Turkish institute representatives via a defense magazine.

As long as people like you sell dreams on the name of Turkey, which returns as burdens on the shoulders of Turks and dent on the reputation, i can question/challenge you on pragmatic perspective in this forum.

If your intellectual background cannot deal with an intellectual challenge, then stop covering that gap with personal attacks, for this only shows your weakness. As a Turk, i feel sorry for you when i see you in this position.

As i said...Just post Tank burrels or details about them please, the rest is out of your league as seen in your imaginative sales to Pakistan with no money to fund.

I hope you have learnt your place in this very short chitchat.

BTW, You sitll cannot anser the quesiton how Pakistan finance these ''ties''.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

As long as people like you sell dreams on the name of Turkey, which returns as burdens on the shoulders of Turks and dent on the reputation, i can question/challenge you on pragmatic perspective in this forum.

If your intellectual background cannot deal with an intellectual challenge, then stop covering that gap with personal attacks, for this only shows your weakness. As a Turk, i feel sorry for you when i see you in this position.

As i said...Just post Tank burrels or details about them please, the rest is out of your league as seen in your imaginative sales to Pakistan with no money to fund.

I hope you have learnt your place in this very short chitchat.

BTW, You sitll cannot anser the quesiton how Pakistan finance these ''ties''.

They already gave you a proper answer to your question. Why are you trolling here? Kindly piss off.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Installments.

Generally, the issuing party (in this case Turkey) has to thoroughly study Pakistan to determine if it can repay the USD $400m in the set period of time. It can also wait for an initial down payment before activating the program. Pakistan is certainly tight on funding, but the problem is worse in terms of its ability to put up USD $1bn at once for one program than say $200m a year for five years. Hance why China, the U.S., and even Sweden issued credit - i.e. a financing plan - for big acquisitions. When you think about it, there aren't that many countries in the world that can take on big defence acquisitions without some kind of upfront loan. We saw France issue billions in such support to Egypt, and a Japanese bank even helped Qatar with its Rafale deal.

In theory there are a few financial ways for such deals, the problem is if Pakistan can ,with either one of them,sustainably fund these ''ties'' the Turk mod listed.

For example, how long can Turkey keep funding the sales to Pakistan with credits for those ''ties'' the Turk mod listed. Is Turkey financially strong enough for such sales methods to every country or all products?

Apperantly, the Turk mod is a dream seller. However, the question still waits for a pragmatic answer from both Turkey and the buyer side.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

In theory there are a few financial ways for such deals, the problem is if Pakistan can ,with either one of them,sustainably fund these ''ties'' the Turk mod listed.

For example, how long can Turkey keep funding the sales to Pakistan with credits for those ''ties'' the Turk mod listed. Is Turkey financially strong enough for such sales methods to every country or all products?

Apperantly, the Turk mod is a dream seller. However, the question still waits for a pragmatic answer from both Turkey and the buyer side.

There are a few issues.

1. Generally (not specific to Pakistan), Turkey will need to build a credit financing mechanism to back its defence industry. There are few countries in the world capable of paying upfront, the majority - especially in the third world - require credit to get contracts moving. The SSM even said on numerous occasions that the lack of a credit mechanism is a big reason why competitors in Europe, Russia, China, etc, have been able to get ahead of Turkish companies.

If your defence industry begins securing multi-billion dollar exports with business activities spanning years or decades, then building that credit mechanism (while issuing loans) is doable. It'd be the same model used by Europe, China and the U.S. But securing business and actually getting buyers repay those terms is essential.

2. Regarding Pakistan. It is ultimately up to Turkey. If the Turkish Govt' determines that Pakistan cannot even pay the term, then Ankara has every right to not offer a sale. Simple. However, even if Pakistan is unable to offer a billion dollars up front, if it can do it over 5-7 years, then approving a sale - with credit - could be a good idea. If not Turkey, then that business will go to China.

3. Extending loans and credit also gives the Turkish side some added flexibility on the negotiating table. For example, you can offer a loan in-exchange for having Pakistan secure more subsystems from Turkey. For example, instead of Thales getting the CMS contract for the MILGEM, it'd be Aselsan.

For discussion's sake, imagine a ship deal is worth $1bn all inclusive - i.e. hulls, propulsion, electronics, etc.

If Pakistan had all the cash, then it might only award the Turkish economy $600m for the hulls and propulsion, but the $400m for electronics and weapons would go to Europe. However, if Turkey extends a $1bn loan, then its businesses will get all of the work, and the loan will be repaid in 10 annual installments (so it gets its money back plus the entire program instead of just 60% of it).

4. Pakistan can do installments. Yes, it can't manage too many programs at once, but two or so big-ticket programs are doable. Pakistan had managed the F-16 Block-52+ and Erieye purchases via installments, and it is now doing Chinese submarines via the same mechanism.

 

[Baybars Han]

In theory there are a few financial ways for such deals, the problem is if Pakistan can ,with either one of them,sustainably fund these ''ties'' the Turk mod listed.

For example, how long can Turkey keep funding the sales to Pakistan with credits for those ''ties'' the Turk mod listed. Is Turkey financially strong enough for such sales methods to every country or all products?

Apperantly, the Turk mod is a dream seller. However, the question still waits for a pragmatic answer from both Turkey and the buyer side.

Please watch SSM Ismail Demir interview. He clearly states that one of the big reasons we lose alot of sales to other countries is because of the finance options we can't offer and other countries can and then he states that recently we are working to solve that so our products become more competitive as an overall package. Nobody will buy our products if it offers same performance but another country offers much easier payment requirements.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

There are a few issues.

1. Generally (not specific to Pakistan), Turkey will need to build a credit financing mechanism to back its defence industry. There are few countries in the world capable of paying upfront, the majority - especially in the third world - require credit to get contracts moving. The SSM even said on numerous occasions that the lack of a credit mechanism is a big reason why competitors in Europe, Russia, China, etc, have been able to get ahead of Turkish companies.

If your defence industry begins securing multi-billion dollar exports with business activities spanning years or decades, then building that credit mechanism (while issuing loans) is doable. It'd be the same model used by Europe, China and the U.S. But securing business and actually getting buyers repay those terms is essential.

2. Regarding Pakistan. It is ultimately up to Turkey. If the Turkish Govt' determines that Pakistan cannot even pay the term, then Ankara has every right to not offer a sale. Simple. However, even if Pakistan is unable to offer a billion dollars up front, if it can do it over 5-7 years, then approving a sale - with credit - could be a good idea. If not Turkey, then that business will go to China.

3. Extending loans and credit also gives the Turkish side some added flexibility on the negotiating table. For example, you can offer a loan in-exchange for having Pakistan secure more subsystems from Turkey. For example, instead of Thales getting the CMS contract for the MILGEM, it'd be Aselsan.

For discussion's sake, imagine a ship deal is worth $1bn all inclusive - i.e. hulls, propulsion, electronics, etc.

If Pakistan had all the cash, then it might only award the Turkish economy $600m for the hulls and propulsion, but the $400m for electronics and weapons would go to Europe. However, if Turkey extends a $1bn loan, then its businesses will get all of the work, and the loan will be repaid in 10 annual installments (so it gets its money back plus the entire program instead of just 60% of it).

4. Pakistan can do installments. Yes, it can't manage too many programs at once, but two or so big-ticket programs are doable. Pakistan had managed the F-16 Block-52+ and Erieye purchases via installments, and it is now doing Chinese submarines via the same mechanism.

The AK upgrade will hence stay with the french supplying.. who are already supplyin parts for PA tank fleet.

 

[Path-Finder]

They already gave you a proper answer to your question. Why are you trolling here? Kindly piss off.

What's your problem dude ? Having some problem or what in your social life ?

The person behind the id is a mindset which i explain like this. in Pakistan a minute handful of people are coming under fire for being on payroll of western backed NGO's that act like minions to further their agenda. Now one of the things they do is lick india's arse because in a game to counter china india is being propped up!! Pakistan is in camp China 100%

so this very individual also sometime last year suddenly began saying that why are we friends with Pakistan and not with india. why are we selling hardware to Pakistan? you can go through his postings and find such examples!!

Pakistan has financial problems and one of the biggest corrupt mofo's is being humiliated on a daily basis but Turkey will get its money for its services! of course unlike india that will say we buy your hardware thus you cannot sell anything to Pakistan we don't do that!!!

 

[KediKesenFare3]

The person behind the id is a mindset which i explain like this. in Pakistan a minute handful of people are coming under fire for being on payroll of western backed NGO's that act like minions to further their agenda. Now one of the things they do is lick india's arse because in a game to counter china india is being propped up!! Pakistan is in camp China 100%

so this very individual also sometime last year suddenly began saying that why are we friends with Pakistan and not with india. why are we selling hardware to Pakistan? you can go through his postings and find such examples!!

Pakistan has financial problems and one of the biggest corrupt mofo's is being humiliated on a daily basis but Turkey will get its money for its services! of course unlike india that will say we buy your hardware thus you cannot sell anything to Pakistan we don't do that!!!

Just ignore him. He is trolling and has obviously some mental issues.