Pakistan-Turkey 4 Milgem Ada Class Corvettes Contract - Construction started

[CHI RULES]

SMART-s is a low end 3D radar with 16 antenna composed of travelling wave tube, in which 12 independent elevation beams are produced, after which DFFT processing and automatic tracking is carried out.
https://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/07.naval/karte007.en.html
While SR2410C is an AESA radar composed of TR units, 2 generation ahead of SMART-S

Sir can you explain these limitations of SR2410C as if it such limitations are there then it should not be slected for Type54 AP. Further you have stated it as AESA meanwhile at many sites it is mentioned as PESA radar.
According to the CSOC brochure, the radar can track up to 150 targets per rotation. Limitations include air targets over Mach 3 and at ranges of more than 150km. The radar has a fire control capability to track missiles, but only at a maximum range of 60km. It is also capable of tracking moving ground vehicles and surface ships. It is capable to complete the task of identifying friend and foes.

Italian defense chief was in Pakistan and held discussions with PN. Could CAMM or CAMM-ER have come up? Personally i think CAMM is the most ideal for PN. If they can get it, i would put the F-22P through a genesis upgrade of sorts with SMART S mk2 and get an 8-12 cell sylver A50 and quad pack CAMM into that and Jinnah class. That would give 64 missiles of 60km range for Jinnah and 32-48 for F-22P. BOTH would then exceed the amti-air capability of the Type 054A.

Sir cost shall be a factor further the HQ16B is stated as more capable and has reported range of 70 KM+. As cost has remained an important factor through out defense deals history of Pakistan.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Italian defense chief was in Pakistan and held discussions with PN. Could CAMM or CAMM-ER have come up? Personally i think CAMM is the most ideal for PN. If they can get it, i would put the F-22P through a genesis upgrade of sorts with SMART S mk2 and get an 8-12 cell sylver A50 and quad pack CAMM into that and Jinnah class. That would give 64 missiles of 60km range for Jinnah and 32-48 for F-22P. BOTH would then exceed the amti-air capability of the Type 054A.

Algeria fit each MEKO A-200AN with Umkhonto IRs (32 cells per ship) for $30-35 m per ship. If each Jinnah-class has 16 cells, then we could fit each one for $20-25 m per ship.

 

[cabatli_53]

If Pakistan seeks an alternative missile, It means China won’t let integration of HQ-16 missiles to Genesis Advent CMS. When Turkish missile family pass into serial production, there will no longer be a need of seeking permission for foreign missiles.

weapon systems such as 35mm GÖKDENİZ CIWS, HİSAR-A short, HİSAR-Nokta medium and SİPER (formerly known as HİSAR-U) long-range air defence missiles. The TF-2000 ADW Destroyers are also expected to be fitted with the naval variant of the Enhanced Long-Range Area Air and Missile Defence System (GUMS/UMBFSS, with BMD capability and EuroSam has been selected as the technical support provider) missile systems to be fired from national VLSs.

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...of-turkish-naval-industrial-capabilities-3632

 

[aliaselin]

Sir can you explain these limitations of SR2410C as if it such limitations are there then it should not be slected for Type54 AP. Further you have stated it as AESA meanwhile at many sites it is mentioned as PESA radar.
According to the CSOC brochure, the radar can track up to 150 targets per rotation. Limitations include air targets over Mach 3 and at ranges of more than 150km. The radar has a fire control capability to track missiles, but only at a maximum range of 60km. It is also capable of tracking moving ground vehicles and surface ships. It is capable to complete the task of identifying friend and foes.

Several weeks ago, I have dicussed with somebody who had read CSOC‘s brochure, and he told me it was an AESA. Also SR2410C is a series of radar also including SR2420C and SR2403B，to fit with different scale of ships , so most probable 054A/P does not use SR2410C, but SR2420C or SR2403B.

 

[HRK]

but SR2420C or SR2403B

any specification or some more detail about these radars ...... ??

 

[Tank131]

Sir cost shall be a factor further the HQ16B is stated as more capable and has reported range of 70 KM+. As cost has remained an important factor through out defense deals history of Pakistan.

I would willingly sacrifice 10kms of range (60km vs 70km) for the ability to quad pack the missiles when you consider instead of 16 70km missiles you would have 64 60km missiles if you get CAMM. Infact the Royal Navy made the same calculation on the Daring class destroyers when the removed 12 cells of Aster 15/30 and replaced them with quad packed CAMM. That gave a load out of 20 Aster 30 (long range) 16 Aster 15 (medium) and 48 CAMM (short to med range) vs 20 and 28 with just the asters.

Algeria fit each MEKO A-200AN with Umkhonto IRs (32 cells per ship) for $30-35 m per ship. If each Jinnah-class has 16 cells, then we could fit each one for $20-25 m per ship.

I would be good with Umkhonto but the problem is with only 35km range i would hope to have more missiles. But if it was marlin or umkhonto r id be far more amenable.

If Pakistan seeks an alternative missile, It means China won’t let integration of HQ-16 missiles to Genesis Advent CMS. When Turkish missile family pass into serial production, there will no longer be a need of seeking permission for foreign missiles.



https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...of-turkish-naval-industrial-capabilities-3632

With the right range absolutely. But it needs to be at least 40km.i would hope that Turkey and Pakistan would work together to make a quad packed medium range missile.

 

[Khagan1923]

With the right range absolutely. But it needs to be at least 40km.i would hope that Turkey and Pakistan would work together to make a quad packed medium range missile.

Tübitak is working on an missile named G40, shown off at IDEF19. 40KM range.

 

[UzaySan]

Turkish anti-ship misille is ready and Pakistan can use it on its milgems.

This is latest test video. Turkish ship Turkish software(Operation System) and Turkish missile. And Pakistan can use it for its enemies

Atmaca also has sea skimming. According to officials atmaca did fly only 1 meter above sea and hit successfully target

https://twitter.com/x/status/1191272558227795968

Turkish anti-ship missile did a zigzag move like exocet missile. This is effective way to protect itself from ciws systems.
And block 2 will be able to launched from submarine.

Engine development project is still going for atmaca.

Also engine will be ready until pakistan milgems ready.

You guys can use this misiile againt whoever you want without limit.

Atmaca missile serial production agreement signed.

Atmaca and others comparison

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Turkish anti-ship misille is ready and Pakistan can use it on its milgems.

This is latest test video. Turkish ship Turkish software(Operation System) and Turkish missile. And Pakistan can use it for its enemies

Atmaca also has sea skimming. According to officials atmaca did fly only 1 meter above sea and hit successfully target

https://twitter.com/x/status/1191272558227795968

Turkish anti-ship missile did a zigzag move like exocet missile. This is effective way to protect itself from ciws systems.
And block 2 will be able to launched from submarine.

Engine development project is still going for atmaca.

Also engine will be ready until pakistan milgems ready.

You guys can use this misiile againt whoever you want without limit.

Atmaca missile serial production agreement signed.

Atmaca and others comparison

Pakistan already has much more advanced cruise missiles. When do you plan to stop copying and paste?

 

[UzaySan]

Pakistan already has much more advanced cruise missiles. When do you plan to stop copying and paste?

Not gonna ask you what to do. And you are right. Pakistan has better missiles.

 

[waz]

The PN currently has four MILGEM corvettes on order, with all four ships due for delivery to the PN by 2023-2024. Construction of the first ship will last 54 months, but the remaining three ships will follow the first in quicker succession, i.e., at six-month intervals of one another (ASFAT A.S).

Under the contract, which was signed in 2018, two of the ships will be built in Turkey, while the remaining two in Pakistan. Pakistan will also receive “complete transfer of technology and the transfer of intellectual property rights for the design of these ships.”

The fourth ship was to be a new frigate class (i.e., Jinnah-class) jointly designed by the primary contractor, ASFAT A.S. (Military Factories and Shipyards Management Inc), and Pakistan’s Maritime Technologies Complex (MTC). However, it appears that the new frigate design will apply to all four ships.

During AMAN-19, the Pakistan Navy’s biennial multi-national exercise, the PN Chief of Naval Staff (CNS), Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi, reportedly outlined that the PN’s MILGEMs will be equipped with the Chinese HQ-16 surface-to-air missile (SAM) system through a 16-cell vertical launch system (VLS).

The VLS will be installed at the fore of the ship, behind the main gun. In addition, the PN’s MILGEMs will deploy a modified version of the GENESIS combat management system (CMS).

The PN MILGEMs will also deploy an “indigenously developed missile system,” which could be the Harba subsonic dual-anti-ship cruising missile (ASCM) and land-attack cruise missile (LACM). However, the most recent Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) report also disclosed the development of a new supersonic missile for the PN, so the PN’s MILGEMs may deploy something other than the Harba ASCM/LACM as well.

The CNS did not specify if the inclusion of VLS was limited to solely the fourth ship, implying that all four MILGEM ships will be configured along identical lines. One indication for this change could be that in 2016, the PN was expected to procure four MILGEM Ada corvettes configured along similar lines to the Turkish Navy’s ships at $1 billion US. However, the deal is now reportedly worth $1.5 billion US.

The PN’s forthcoming Type 054A/P frigates will also deploy the HQ-16 but through 32 VLS cells. All four Type 054A/Ps are due by 2021. Interestingly, the Pakistan Army also inducted the HQ-16/LY-80, which shows that there is a measure of commonality between the Navy and Army on SAMs.

The Jinnah-class corvette/light frigate is a fully multi-mission design. The HQ-16/LY-80 — which could have a range of 40 km or, if the PN opts for the newer configuration, 70 km – provides anti-air warfare (AAW) coverage. In addition, the Harba ASCM/LACM would provide long-range anti-shipping and stand-off range land-attack capability. If the Jinnah-class arrives by the time the PN deploys its supersonic missile (which is likely to be an ASCM), it could have a varied – and difficult to stop – anti-shipping load-out as well.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/ind...tte-under-construction-for-pakistan-navy.html

 

[dBSPL]

Pakistan wants the configuration of a 5.000-ton ship on a 2800-3000-ton ship. We will probably see a ship full of weapons/sensors and ECM systems , just like Israeli navy combatant ships. A standard Ada-class corvettes' cost could be reduced to $ 250 million, if some parts production can be shift to Pakistan. However, there is a lot of information showing that the additional cost of $ 100 million per ship is not just ToT or infrastructure construction.As far as I can see, the Jinnah class will have a crowder configuration than the I-class. A portion of the contract amount will be used to transfer infrastructure to Pakistan but the real big share seems to go to subsystem contractors.

The fact that these Integration activities will take place on a ready and proven platform with all engineering solutions completed for nearly 15 years, will provide more predictable risk management.

 

[khanasifm]

The Turkish ciws which ship /platform already installed and operational ? T pn is first customer ?

 

[dBSPL]

No, Turkmenistan will be the first costumer acc. to Aselsan official at IDEF19. Gökdeniz could also be used on the I-Class and maybe on MLU of the Barbaros-Class Frigates instead of Phalanx.

*CGI of the Turkmen class multi role corvettes, with Aselsan Gökdeniz CIWS

A contract was signed between the Turkish companies Gülhan and Dearsan with Turkmenistan to build a 92-meter corvette. It was learned that the ship to be built in Turkmenbashi Port will be named as Turkmen class. ASELSAN product Gökdeniz CIWS will be used in corvettes to be exported to Turkmenistan. In 2016, Dearsan signed a memorandum of understanding for the Corvette tender in Kazakhstan. Also, Dearsan is continuing its efforts to export 16 different types of ships to Azerbaijan. Since 2010, Dearsan has exported a total of 25 ships to the Navy and Border Guards of Turkmenistan.

Therefore, we will probably see quite a large number of Gökdeniz CIWS in the Caspian, in near future.

 

[RangeMaster]

On 14 November 2019, Aselsan revealed that is got a €176.9 m contract from ASFAT A.Ş (Military Factory and Shipyard Management Inc) to supply subsystems for the Pakistan Navy’s four MILGEM (i.e., Jinnah-class) multi-mission corvettes/light frigates (via Anadolu Agency).

Aselsan may be supplying the electronic support measures (ESM), radars (main and/or low probability-of-intercept), sonars, and other subsystems. One of these could be the Aselsan Gökdeniz close-in-weapons-system (CIWS) for low-altitude air defence coverage, especially against incoming missiles.

This is Aselsan’s second large contract involving Pakistan, the first was a $254.73 m US deal in July for the Pakistan Army’s T129 ATAK attack helicopter program.

Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) signed a contract with ASFAT A.Ş for the four MILGEMs in July 2018, following two years of negotiations with the Turkish government.

The value of the Pakistani MILGEM contract is reportedly $1.5 billion US. The four ships are due to delivery to the PN by 2023-2024, with the first ship set to arrive in 2022-2023.

Under the contract, Pakistan’s Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KSEW) will manufacture two of the ships, with the other two being built in Turkey. Pakistan will also receive “complete transfer of technology and the transfer of intellectual property for the design of (the MILGEM).”

In September 2019, Istanbul Shipyard held the steel-cutting ceremony of the PN’s first MILGEM.

During the steel-cutting ceremony, ASFAT A.Ş also revealed an impression of the PN’s MILGEM. As shown in the tweet below (courtesy of Ahmad Ibrahim), Pakistan’s ships will differ from their Turkish equivalents. The most apparent of these changes is the inclusion of a vertical launch system (VLS) at the bow of the ship (behind the main gun) and the use of a CIWS – possibly the Aselsan Gökdeniz.

https://quwa.org/2019/11/18/aselsan-secures-e176-9-m-contract-for-pakistans-milgem-corvette-program/