Pakistan Tribes Turn Against Army

[Bratva]

Meanwhile TTP Spokesperson conducting press conferences in South waziristan and Pakistan Army claims it has cleared SWA from TTP

Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan (L) and with new TTP member Adnan Rasheed address a press conference in Shabtoi, a village in Pakistan's South Waziristan, on February 2, 2013

 

[Safriz]

Meanwhile TTP Spokesperson conducting press conferences in South waziristan and Pakistan Army claims it has cleared SWA from TTP

Obviously some local supporters hiding him or he was across the border while PA was conducting the operation.

 

[forcetrip]

Still a question arises. ISI is powerfull enough to take them down, even without anyone pointing fingers at them. These tribal leaders always have rivalries, which they can make use of. (PS: Thats how FBI bought down Mafias in USA). But when they dont take an steps, doubts arise whether the Pakistani security establishment have any plans for them?
Through them anti US sentiments can be maintained, and support for Taliban(afghan) can be sustained.

I will keep it as vague as possible. When the US fought rival gangs against each other the perpetrators were in triple digits or in most cases a little over. Most of the perps were then marked and 100's of man hours used to document from their daily routines to extended family. This huge file costs $'s that you will not believe. The problem with tribal areas is if the same exact campaign was run on them it would cost at least 10 times as much, and the results? somewhere close to 10% of what the US success. The tribals are ingrained in clan structure. Their immediate family members that produce soldiers is huge. They could be walking to school one minute and the next see their enemy and engage. There is no set rules by which they operate.. They got al caponne on tax evasion .. I dont think an afridi will get arrested even if he was caught stealing a goat.. His life means very little to him as he has already been explained about the villa in the sky he will be owning. You need atleast some sort of hammer down before you introduce 3 generations to education for this lot to reintegrate back into the mainstream. No one is ready to fix the problem.

 

[haviZsultan]

I was saying this for long ago our army disastrous operations in our tribal areas have turned those people against us who always stood with the Army against India and any enemy but Musharraf made us USA slaves and we are now facing our own people who hate us to the core and this will never end until operation is stopped

Partially agree Zarvan. Last oart too... if we look at the ones in this for revenge you may be right. Some are killed in airstrikes and artillery bombardment. But the terrorist cannot be left alone if that is what you mean. Hakimullah chief of TTP must be slain somehow. I support Imran Khan's solution because military operations haven't yielded any results.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I will keep it as vague as possible. When the US fought rival gangs against each other the perpetrators were in triple digits or in most cases a little over. Most of the perps were then marked and 100's of man hours used to document from their daily routines to extended family. This huge file costs $'s that you will not believe. The problem with tribal areas is if the same exact campaign was run on them it would cost at least 10 times as much, and the results? somewhere close to 10% of what the US success. The tribals are ingrained in clan structure. Their immediate family members that produce soldiers is huge. They could be walking to school one minute and the next see their enemy and engage. There is no set rules by which they operate.. They got al caponne on tax evasion .. I dont think an afridi will get arrested even if he was caught stealing a goat.. His life means very little to him as he has already been explained about the villa in the sky he will be owning. You need atleast some sort of hammer down before you introduce 3 generations to education for this lot to reintegrate back into the mainstream. No one is ready to fix the problem.

Everyone are the masters of their own land. FBI knows about the Americans and their lands like their back of their hand. The used their environment well to bring them down. Note the FBI were given orders not to engage anyone. The mafias had such strong political clouts, and FBI hands were tied. And a noble plan was hatched to make them fight each other by Edgar. And finally when they finally decimated each other, Politicians saw a light, turned their back on Mafias, giving FBI the power to deal with remaining one.

As in Pakistani context, the security agencies, i believe, should operate in their specialisation and their environment. These agencies know about its people and its land more than others. Even without employing 100's of hours, ISI can find easy ways of targeting them. Phone tapping , bugs, satellites and drones are there(which was not the norm in Mafia days). ISI should target them using their own tribal culture, find flaws in them and attack.
But i believe since they had used them in Afghan war, in which they were treated like kings, they now refuse to climb down.

 

[forcetrip]

Everyone are the masters of their own land. FBI knows about the Americans and their lands like their back of their hand. The used their environment well to bring them down. Note the FBI were given orders not to engage anyone. The mafias had such strong political clouts, and FBI hands were tied. And a noble plan was hatched to make them fight each other by Edgar. And finally when they finally decimated each other, Politicians saw a light, turned their back on Mafias, giving FBI the power to deal with remaining one.

As in Pakistani context, the security agencies, i believe, should operate in their specialisation and their environment. These agencies know about its people and its land more than others. Even without employing 100's of hours, ISI can find easy ways of targeting them. Phone tapping , bugs, satellites and drones are there(which was not the norm in Mafia days). ISI should target them using their own tribal culture, find flaws in them and attack.
But i believe since they had used them in Afghan war, in which they were treated like kings, they now refuse to climb down.

Streets of New York Vs the Frontier mountains. Cellphones? Last trip I took I think that was pretty much a paper weight. Why do you think it is so easy for them to pin point informants? The human factor is the only factor that works in credible information gathering up there .. It will all sound french because it can not be visualized by any amount of explaining. They are amazing people with hearts of gold and absolutely no goals other than to eat, sleep and fight their deamons.

 

[Green Bullet]

Haji Ayub Afridi of LandiKotal us dead now.
But go and see his castle,and you will forget President house of Islamabad and also forget Buckingham palace of London,and he is only one example.
All across the tribal areas there are mega rich tycoons with lifestyles of Beverly hills..
Benazir tried to establish government writ on Ayub Afridi's arwa and he hired a private army 20,000 strong with all the latest weapons.
Same is the story of other regional mega rich tribal cheifs..
The people are like their slaves.
GOP or Army cannot do much without the consent of these cheifs and they do whats in their own benifit.
Many times PA too gets tricked into fighting a teibe's war against another instead of WOT or law enforcement.
Yet nobody here or anywhere will speak against these tribal cheifs,
Its always the fault of Army,GOP, ISI-
Slave mentality at best.
If you send PA to abolish tribal areas and inregrate them into Pakistan then how these tribals will run theur drugs,weapons and smuggling businesses?
Of course any attempt of integration and building infrastructure will be met with armed resustance.
PA will and has lost soldiers trying reign these illegal tribal smugglers,and also got blamed if intrusion,cruelity and what not.

Still want to provide for your tribal brotheren?

Your first sentence was not coherent, please rephrase it, although I assume you advocated the idea that Haji Ayub Afridi of LandiKotal wants the death of ordinary Pakistanis. This statement does not elucidate in why Pakistan should pursue a policy of a separate independent FATA or the isolation of the tribal people, because one person is a rogue element who is clearly deluded. Based upon your flawed doctrine Baluchistan should also be separated, since we also have rogue elements that reside there. Obviously your ideology is flawed because most of the world would transcend into anarchy and the masses should not be held hostage to a few miscreants. The question you should be asking is why FATA is stricken with poverty and violence when it has a large amount of resources. Failure of governance should be blamed upon the government whose duty is to exercise the writ of law in a country. Law is maintained through education, infrastructure and economic reforms which transforms a society.

Every province in Pakistan has a number of wealthy individuals who are stabilizing the country, but that does not allow me to riposte the idea of separation, since I would be branded as a traitor. Haji Ayub Afridi house does not compare in value to Buckingham Palace or in Bishops Avenue. You need to use common sense because if I use your analogy, Punjab should separate from Pakistan because Riaz Malik the property don kills those who are against him and simply buys out anyone. We can even use the example of Chongqing where corruption and violence is prominent, yet instead of separating the province from the country the CCP introduced reform and targeted those that disrupted the harmony. Running away from a problem makes you a coward, but trying to solve a problem makes a country great. These rich tycoons have obviously used illegal means to gain wealth, yet if the government of Pakistan actually provided education and infrastructure the whole scenario would be different since work would be provided and the use of guns would be forgotten. The fact that these criminals exists in are society shows the failure of the government and not the people them selves. Even if Bhutto tried to dislodge the power of these chieftains and failed, does not necessarily mean a person should give up, because if you have this level of mentality then you will never be successful in life since you threw the towel just because you felt a little bit of heat. China was known as the sick man of Asia, the century of humiliation where imperial powers were fighting proxy wars and the various indigenous warlords kept the population as hostages. Yet they came through this period as a strong nation. However the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution destroyed there economy where power was centralized by a few group of individuals. Obviously this all changed through reform as power was decentralized....but the key point is we should learn from Deng Xiaoping and bring change to are people, even if the task is tough.

The GOP or the Army cannot change things in Baluchistan without the permission of certain tribes, but does that mean the State should pursue a policy of isolation or separation..I think not. Pakistan does not have a worst drug war than Mexico or Brazil yet they have overcome this problem through strategic planning. Whining does not change things, being proactive does. Yes I would still support the tribal people because they are Pakistanis and unlike you I don't criticize Jinnah or speak on things that can cause segregation.

 

[Gentelman]

there are always some bad nuts everywhere and some bitter almonds mixed in almonds...
you can't blame all tribes for this...
there sacrifices in war in terrorism can't be neglected...
There were many joints operations by locals and Army..
You all can't forget sacrifices of Aman lashker....

 

[Ayush]

The tribals face drones all the time. So it is natural that they will turn against the army. oppression leads to this. perhaps like the Indian Maoists.

 

[Zarvan]

Partially agree Zarvan. Last oart too... if we look at the ones in this for revenge you may be right. Some are killed in airstrikes and artillery bombardment. But the terrorist cannot be left alone if that is what you mean. Hakimullah chief of TTP must be slain somehow. I support Imran Khan's solution because military operations haven't yielded any results.

Yes slain him and than make him a hero and in result thousand like him are born Sir when you are going for talks you have to talk all even if you hate them still you have to talk and you would have to accept their demands which are according to Islam only by doing this you can find permanent solution to this bloody war which is not stopping

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

To be honest these tribal areas should be handed back to Afghanistan,thats where they came from.
They have been nothing but trouble and an immense pressure on country's resources..
Their inclusion into Pakistan was jinnah's biggest blunder which we are still suffering.

what about responsibilities of the government ...................... tribal areas have been neglected since long , so is balochistan .........

 

[A1Kaid]

With respect must register a "disagree" -- Their inclusion is not just territorial - govt must actually be govt, must actually provide services, it cannot just leave people to fend for themselves and then claim that they are nothing but trouble.

There are strange ideas of tribals in Pakistan - the noble warring savage, just leave them be and use them - They are Pakistanis, extend to them all rights, responsibilities of any other person -- Trust me, they want what anybody else wants, a better life - A better life - that can only come from a Pakistani economy free of the state, and that can only come from a change int he nature of politics in Pakistan -- When govt refuses to protect you, what option do you have but to make accommodation with terrorists? When you can't fit in the economy and the only option is to make a kliving as smugglers and hired guns for terrorists, when you can't elect who you want -- they can't just be Pakistan in territory, they must be made Pakistani in all rights and responsibilities.

Here's the problem with that, the tribals historically have opposed Federalization and Government rule and Army presence in tribal areas, so on the one hand they oppose Government rule and Federalization on the other they want better opportunities, protection from the police and army. It's not Pakistani Governments that decided to let them fend for themselves it's the tribals that have always demanded they be in charge and fend for their own security, they have their own tribal laws and customs called Pakhtunwali not Pakistani constitution which is a major problem because of failure of Federalization.

Safriz is partially right the tribals by not accepting Government and Army presence have brought this trouble upon themselves, Pakistani Governments of the past are at fault for respecting the tribal wishes for no Army and Government presence there, what they should have done is disband the tribal structure send Army into FATA and integrate it as a province.

 

[Spring Onion]

This is where it gets confusing. So the tribals must seek revenge when PA or drones cause civilian causlaties due to collateral damage.

Both are right in their own way. opration is a must but deaths of civilians and innocent people are also condemnable.

But Taliban have killed many more in targetted attacks against tribal civilians. What happens to the cultural compulsion of seeking revenge against Taliban???

The tribesmen are fighting the terrorists and many lost their loved ones and elders while fighting the militants in form of tribal peace lashkars siding with Pakistani Army.

 

[Spring Onion]

Pakistan army battles legacy of mistrust in Taliban heartland


Reuters
CHAGMALAI: In a Pakistan army base high in the mountains on the Afghan frontier, a general explains a strategy for fighting the Taliban he calls simply “WHAM”.The name has a distinctly bellicose ring. But the soldiers are learning to fight a new kind of war in a region US President Barack Obama has called the most dangerous on Earth.

“WHAM – winning hearts and minds,” explains the straight-talking General Nazir Butt, in charge of converting the army’s gains on the battlefield into durable security. “The plan is to turn militant sanctuaries into safe havens for the people.”


The term WHAM has been used before, but the focus this time is South Waziristan, an enclave on the Afghan border once the epicentre of a spreading Pakistan Taliban insurgency that shocked the country with its challenge to the authority of the state.

According to the army narrative, the campaign includes winning over the region’s ethnic Pashtun tribes through dialogue, creating commercial opportunities and providing education in new schools and colleges.
During a three-day trip with the army, Reuters got a rare glimpse not just into the scale of the army’s state-building project in South Waziristan, but also the challenges that lurk in the inhospitable territory.


However well-meaning the new approach, there are problems that won’t go away – threats of retaliation by the al Qaeda-linked militants, a lack of effective civilian administration and endemic corruption.
And the campaign to win hearts and minds has an ignoble track record in other conflict zones which serve as a reality check for even the most optimistic Pakistani officials.

A man sits outside his shop at a market in Chagmalai in Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan November 29, 2012. – Photo by Reuters



In Iraq and Afghanistan, Western nations poured in millions of dollars to rebuild militant strongholds and win affection.

Results have been limited: many residents view the armies as occupiers and militants remain a danger.

The goal won’t be any easier in South Waziristan. The area forms one-fifth of Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas which are roughly the size of Belgium and governed under a system inherited from British colonialists.

Government-appointed political agents rule through the Pashtun tribes and collect and distribute revenue with little oversight. The people have limited rights.

While the Pakistani army backed the Taliban in Afghanistan in the 1990s, and supported militants fighting Indian rule in the Kashmir region, in South Waziristan it found itself under attack.

Decades of resentment felt by the population and the US bombing campaign on the Afghan border following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States spawned a generation of Pakistani militants who used South Waziristan to launch assaults against the Pakistani state and US-led forces in Afghanistan.
A DONKEY AND A HIGHWAYUnsure how to respond, Pakistan see-sawed between brief military campaigns and appeasing the militants with short-lived peace deals. Then, in 2009, Pakistan’s army chief ordered the biggest offensive yet, pouring 40,000 troops into South Waziristan in a bid to tip the balance.

The 2009 offensive displaced almost half a million people as homes, schools and hospitals were turned into hideouts by militants and meagre civic amenities were destroyed.

Today, a combination of the offensive and US drones has helped drive the Pakistan Taliban leadership out of South Waziristan and the army is looking for ways to convince people it is safe for them to return.


But after having spent close to three years in camps, only 41,000 refugees have come back.

“The people can only feel fully secure if there is social and economic uplift,” said a brigadier who commands a cliff-side compound near Wana, the main town in South Waziristan. “It took some time but we know now that 1,000 bullets can’t do the work of one school.”


Many of the refugees have resettled in Chagmalai, a village close to Jandola, where the army is headquartered in a fort built by the British in the 19th century – a reminder of a centuries-old policy of ruling the area through a mix of intimidation and armed intervention.


.

A small, colourful marketplace was inaugurated last year and the green-and-white Pakistani flag was painted on the shutters of shops given to traders for a nominal fee. In a courtyard next door, army officers and government officials teach people how to raise poultry and set up bee farms.
But despite the development, Chagmalai still resembles a ghost town, a collection of ruined houses and abandoned clinics and schools with falling plaster and bullet-pocked walls. The army says it wants to turn the secluded landscape into a new home for those who have found the courage to return.

Ashraf Khan is a recently widowed farmer who has just returned from the Jandola fort where he asked the commanding officer for a loan.

“My wife used to gather firewood and collect water,” he said. “Now I need to buy a donkey. I’m hoping the soldiers will keep their promise to help.”
A few kilometres away, construction workers and army engineers have dug through rugged terrain to build a road, which will connect the isolated region with the northwest city of Peshawar, the nearest economic hub. The US government has contributed $170 million for the 287-km (180-mile) road.
Agricultural land and poultry farms line the sides of the highway, which zips through a breathtaking chasm of mountains and cliffs, its dual-lanes in better shape than many of those in Pakistani cities.

“The road has made it so much easier to move flocks, feed and medicines,” said Hamid Jan who runs a poultry farm. “I’ve never earned this much money before.”

Students attend class at the Musa Neka Public School in Wana, the main town in Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan November 28, 2012. – Photo by Reuters


“ASK ME ABOUT MY BOOKS”


The army believes it can create goodwill by encouraging commerce and, more importantly, education. Officers say 33 schools have been restored and 4,000 students enrolled, 200 of them girls, but verifying such data is difficult.
The Taliban oppose girls’ education and in October shot a 15-year-old Pakistani girl, Malala Yousafzai, for advocating schooling for girls.

But the army says it will power on. Having previously served in the disputed border region between Pakistan and India, Colonel Asim Iqbal now shows off a flagship technical institute and cadet college built as part of the WHAM initiative.



Seventy-five students graduated from the 11-million-rupee Waziristan Institute of Technical Education in December with diplomas in auto-mechanics, carpentry and IT. Nearby, a cadet college has been built at a cost of 500 million rupees.



In the college computer lab, Shamsullah, 15, learnt word-processing. A poor teenager whose uncle was a militant commander killed in a US drone strike, Shamsullah could have been a ready Taliban recruit. Instead, he just wants to study.
“I have nothing to do with militancy,” he said. “Ask me about my books.”

An army instructor teaches students at a technical class in the Waziristan Institute of Technical Education (WITE) in Spinkai in Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan November 29, 2012. – Photo by Reuters



But for all the high hopes, enthusiastic students, freshly plastered classrooms and tarmac roads, there is little sign of a credible civilian administration taking root.

The highest political officer in the area, the political agent, does not even live in South Waziristan out of fear of being killed by the Taliban, who have murdered hundreds of leaders in the tribal belt in recent years.

Pashtun elders said official records showed that school teachers absent for months were still drawing salaries while the administration took no action.

But political agent Shahidullah Khan said he was doing the best he could. “There is only so much I can do when I can’t even travel outside the army camp,” he said by phone from Tank, a town to the east of South Waziristan.

Only on Saturday, more than 30 people were killed in an attack on a military checkpost next to South Waziristan which the Taliban said was revenge for a drone strike that killed two commanders in North Waziristan last month.

Many of the boys playing cricket close to the market declined to answer when asked about army assurances of a better life. But referring to militants and the military, one said: “They’re all the same.”

Some army officers accept such criticism as valid, admitting to the state’s decades-old heavy-handedness in the region.

“The budget for my brigade alone could take care of the education of all of South Waziristan,” said General Butt. “We have made many mistakes. And we don’t deny it any more.”
But while Butt insists that the militants are no longer a force to be reckoned with in South Waziristan, many people are less optimistic.

“The army has blocked them for now but the Taliban can return,” said a shop-keeper.

A tribal elder whose family has moved away and is too afraid to return, asked: “If the Taliban are really gone for good, why doesn’t the army also leave?”

A man attends a computer class at the Wana Institute of Technical Training in Wana, the main town in Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan November 27, 2012. – Photo by Reuters

 

[Arsalan]

I thought you love Talibans

I used to think the same about US and the Americans when the fed and raised Talibans and Al-Qaeda during the soviet invasion.