Pakistan to stick with RD-93 engine for JF-17, say PAF officials

[MastanKhan]

Thoo I doubt that range will be reduced to nearly half due to aditional load of 4 missiles or bombs. But I dont have a reference/source so, i wont argue..
But u missunderstood my point.. My point is that thunder wasn't designed to go deep inside enemy's territory, dump its load and come back... . Its is supposed to stop mkis at the boader.. & a little bit more. .
Why should we compromise on agility of all thunders by adding CFTs...
We shouldnt

Hi,

If you kids had read some history of warfare----instead of clicking your thumbs on the video games consoles and picked up some books to read---you would have known that is how the egyptian air force got screwed up in the 1973 war---the ig 21's would take off---and then they would want to land after 30 minutes to refuel---the israeli phantoms would be lurking around because their loiter time was around 4 hours----.

So---when the migs came for landing---the phantoms would jump on them and take them out----.

Now did you guys thaink that the indians are that stupid---their SU30's have close to 5 hours of loiter time---they can move in and out at their discretion.

 

[salarsikander]

if the WS-13 was good enough PLAAF would be operating 500 JF-17 instead of the 500 J-7 they have

Wonder why they would need 17 when a more advanced and capable 10 program is there.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think for Pakistan / Turkey , to have a Engine , program for Jets , and Helicopters is quite important

If you manufacture engines locally, you can retire / replace engine at low costs , as its made locally.
And also you can get better over all performance by having you fleet running on low Air time engines.

You can fine tune and improve engine performance , speed and other parameters with enhancements
and most importantly you can increase production rate , if you are in sales of Aircraft

Not having ability to "Engineer" an engine , locally is a big disappointment for me personally.

For the battle in Air my view is "Speed" and performance of engine does matters , if you ever been on highway , and you are doing 80km /hr and then you see a guy zoom by at 190km/hr and in minutes you see him disappear from sight, same with Jet in sky , a plane flying with slower output , might get overtaken by other planes in air , also the plane might not be able to persue , jets that are out of ammunition and trying to escape incoming interceptors

Sure one can use BVR but chances are a faster engine plane would outrun , and escape
The BVR missiles we have do help bridge that Gap


On the plus size , RD-93 Solves our immediate upgrading needs , to have more modern planes flying in air with latest Air-Air missiles

Having 100+ JF17 thunders ia tremendous boost to Pakistan Airforce

Lack of Engine , Engineering and manufacturing is however a negative element in my book

 

[Tempest II]

Hi,

JF17 only has a range of 700-800 KM in combat role.

Just to help with accuracy:

 

[Malik Usman]

The focus seems to be more in interesting the Russians to open a maintenance facility so that Russia can be pulled closer...besides..I doubt there are any other deliverable options available..The ej200 ..The Europeans aren't going to let chinese engineers anywhere close to thier product. ..and for the chinese engines. .hmm.

The funny part on this article was that pac designed the plane and that they "worked" extensively with the Russian engineers from klimov.

Look who is commenting.....who's own projects running from last many decades are become scrap according to their own officials...........

 

[Al-Taïr]

Hi,

If you kids had read some history of warfare----instead of clicking your thumbs on the video games consoles and picked up some books to read---you would have known that is how the egyptian air force got screwed up in the 1973 war---the ig 21's would take off---and then they would want to land after 30 minutes to refuel---the israeli phantoms would be lurking around because their loiter time was around 4 hours----.

So---when the migs came for landing---the phantoms would jump on them and take them out----.

Now did you guys thaink that the indians are that stupid---their SU30's have close to 5 hours of loiter time---they can move in and out at their discretion.

Brother it took you 32days to come up with this counter argument :p and u are right... JFT is no match for a dual engine heavy weight monster jet.

 

[wiseone2]

Wonder why they would need 17 when a more advanced and capable 10 program is there.

why develop the JF-17 for PAF if the J-10 is more advanced and capable. You can sell the J-10 tot he PAF

I think for Pakistan / Turkey , to have a Engine , program for Jets , and Helicopters is quite important

If you manufacture engines locally, you can retire / replace engine at low costs , as its made locally.
And also you can get better over all performance by having you fleet running on low Air time engines.

You can fine tune and improve engine performance , speed and other parameters with enhancements
and most importantly you can increase production rate , if you are in sales of Aircraft

Not having ability to "Engineer" an engine , locally is a big disappointment for me personally.

For the battle in Air my view is "Speed" and performance of engine does matters , if you ever been on highway , and you are doing 80km /hr and then you see a guy zoom by at 190km/hr and in minutes you see him disappear from sight, same with Jet in sky , a plane flying with slower output , might get overtaken by other planes in air , also the plane might not be able to persue , jets that are out of ammunition and trying to escape incoming interceptors

Sure one can use BVR but chances are a faster engine plane would outrun , and escape
The BVR missiles we have do help bridge that Gap


On the plus size , RD-93 Solves our immediate upgrading needs , to have more modern planes flying in air with latest Air-Air missiles

Having 100+ JF17 thunders ia tremendous boost to Pakistan Airforce

Lack of Engine , Engineering and manufacturing is however a negative element in my book

very few countries can build modern jet engines - USA, Russia, UK, France

 

[Tempest II]

why develop the JF-17 for PAF if the J-10 is more advanced and capable. You can sell the J-10 tot he PAF

Timing I think. The J-10 was officially acknowledged late 2006/early 2007. We now believe it is available for export but that has not been for long. TOT is a level higher, so maybe not available, which means higher costs.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Russians will surely help Pakistan in engine manufacturing or overhauling facility.

Russia even didn't help india in kaveri engine program which became flop project and LCA tejas was helpless for decades and you are talking about Pakistan.

 

[Tipu7]

Russia even didn't help india in kaveri engine program which became flop project and LCA tejas was helpless for decades and you are talking about Pakistan.

Wait and see ....... you guys should stop worrying about our deals so much.

 

[Defender@@]

Hi,

If you kids had read some history of warfare----instead of clicking your thumbs on the video games consoles and picked up some books to read---you would have known that is how the egyptian air force got screwed up in the 1973 war---the ig 21's would take off---and then they would want to land after 30 minutes to refuel---the israeli phantoms would be lurking around because their loiter time was around 4 hours----.

So---when the migs came for landing---the phantoms would jump on them and take them out----.

Now did you guys thaink that the indians are that stupid---their SU30's have close to 5 hours of loiter time---they can move in and out at their discretion.

I guess guys in PAC are not stupid... Thats why they have bought tanker aircrafts and air to air refuelling... The basic purpose of jf17 is defense not attack ... So that it can patrol the borders and lower cost and when needed to increase loiter time air to air refuelling can be done whereas f16 could be use for aggressive business...

Remember guys jf17 was meant to be a low cost fighter but still effective against other fighter... Currently jf17 can pose equal threat to migs and jaguars and with no can also give trouble to mki ... The reason being the top class armour being used... Jf17 is bvr capable... Very lethal in anti ship roles... Long range radar is there ...

Disadvantages are less no of hard points... Ask any fighter pilot that air engagements now a days are of minutes and sometime less than minutes so its very unlikely that single aircraft has to take on lot of aircrafts... Untill and unless your adversary in not capable of all... So from that prospective 7 hardpoints are e enough

Second disadvantage of higher loiter team is being addressed be air to air refuelling

Advantage.. Measure advamtage is to use jf17 less costly air craft for less demanding roles such as patrol reconniance .. Air support .. Ground attack .. Sea attack and defensive role... Whereas for air supriority roles f16 upgraded are there..

The money save from jf17 will bw used for nect generation fighter...

If we invest heavily on j10 which is at minimum three time the cost of blk 2 then we would not have been talking about interest in other fighters...

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Russia even didn't help india in kaveri engine program which became flop project and LCA tejas was helpless for decades and you are talking about Pakistan.

don't compare Pakistan with India

 

[salarsikander]

why develop the JF-17 for PAF if the J-10 is more advanced and capable. You can sell the J-10 tot he PAF



very few countries can build modern jet engines - USA, Russia, UK, France

Hi,

Do you act stupid or you really are?
Jf-17 is the joint venture BTW both countries. As the scenario and threats evolved China went on solo making j-10 while continuing its support for 17 program. Paf had already invested enough time and money on this project so there was nomreason to go j-10. Unlike, you we have scheduled deadlines in the program. We don't drag the project for 30 years or 10 years for procuring a new imported jet !

 

[Death In Fire]

don't compare Pakistan with India

Exactly.Pakistan cannot do things like launching satellites or making advanced destroyers or ABMs.Pakistan has forex kitty of $20b whereas India has a forex kitty of $350b.

Hi,

Do you act stupid or you really are?
Jf-17 is the joint venture BTW both countries. As the scenario and threats evolved China went on solo making j-10 while continuing its support for 17 program. Paf had already invested enough time and money on this project so there was nomreason to go j-10. Unlike, you we have scheduled deadlines in the program. We don't drag the project for 30 years or 10 years for procuring a new imported jet !

India's equivalent of Pakistan JF-17 program is Su-30MKI program.That has been quite a success with over 220 fighters built so far(incl 180 in India).
Whereas Pakistan has built only 55-60 JF-17 so far.

 

[CHI RULES]

I am only interested in a Pakistani made RD-93 engine. It will be the best thing happen to this program after the first flight of JF-17 Thunder.

Russians will surely help Pakistan in engine manufacturing or overhauling facility. Pakistan International Airlines had a jet engine maintenance and overhauling facility in good old days, don't know the current status. We need to manufacture jet engines, turbines, piston engines and other high tech mechanical and electrical equipment in Pakistan. It will surely help us to move ahead.

To develop jet engines we require a whole range of expertise and knowledge which we can't get in current scenario. We should instead of opening new ordinary Unis should build new Technical Institutions/Unis with foreign faculty may be from China and Russia. Similarly research work should be done on new technologies like stealth, aerodynamics, fuels etc. It may take a decade to Pak after well planning and implication that they can develop their own engines from Jets to Naval Ships.
We should work in area of applied sciences and technology to produce capable engineers and technicians to realise such dreams. The present situation is that most of our graduates from GIK and Nust prefer to go abroad. Their is brain drain problem in the country. Further if we can't develop such huge infrastructure and want to waste our limited resources on Metro weshould at least offer limited scholar ships for bright students of technical institutes to get further studies and practical knowledge in China nad Russia. Similarly students having science and engineering background intellectuals who already have practical knowledge and strong academic background should be officially included in joint research projects of the areas of interest with Chinese counterparts.