Pakistan to stick with RD-93 engine for JF-17, say PAF officials

[MastanKhan]

Brother it took you 32days to come up with this counter argument :p and u are right... JFT is no match for a dual engine heavy weight monster jet.

Hi,

I have written about this 20 plus times-----I just got tired of saying the same thing over and over----but then seeing no one replied---I posted again.

Just to help with accuracy:
View attachment 279025

Hi,

That might be old information-----. The new numbers don't look that good----.

For ground strike operations---it is more like 400-600 KM and air superiority mode around 600-700 km.

The loiter time is no more than 1 hour at the most loaded.

I guess guys in PAC are not stupid... Thats why they have bought tanker aircrafts and air to air refuelling... The basic purpose of jf17 is defense not attack ... So that it can patrol the borders and lower cost and when needed to increase loiter time air to air refuelling can be done whereas f16 could be use for aggressive business...

Remember guys jf17 was meant to be a low cost fighter but still effective against other fighter... Currently jf17 can pose equal threat to migs and jaguars and with no can also give trouble to mki ... The reason being the top class armour being used... Jf17 is bvr capable... Very lethal in anti ship roles... Long range radar is there ...

Disadvantages are less no of hard points... Ask any fighter pilot that air engagements now a days are of minutes and sometime less than minutes so its very unlikely that single aircraft has to take on lot of aircrafts... Untill and unless your adversary in not capable of all... So from that prospective 7 hardpoints are e enough

Second disadvantage of higher loiter team is being addressed be air to air refuelling

Advantage.. Measure advamtage is to use jf17 less costly air craft for less demanding roles such as patrol reconniance .. Air support .. Ground attack .. Sea attack and defensive role... Whereas for air supriority roles f16 upgraded are there..

The money save from jf17 will bw used for nect generation fighter...

If we invest heavily on j10 which is at minimum three time the cost of blk 2 then we would not have been talking about interest in other fighters...

Hi,

You are totally clueless on you own to write anything---that is why you are talking about---" air force is right ".

If you understood air combat---it is the loiter time that is a problem----.

 

[HAIDER]

Pakistan to stick with RD-93 engine for JF-17, say PAF officials | IHS Jane's 360

Air Platforms
Pakistan to stick with RD-93 engine for JF-17, say PAF officials
Reuben F Johnson, Dubai - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
18 November 2015

A Pakistan Air Force JF-17 Thunder making the type's first European display at the Paris Air Show on 15 June. Source: IHS/Patrick Allen
The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) has no plans to replace the JF-17 fighter's Klimov/Sarkisov RD-93 powerplant despite Chinese suggestions otherwise, according to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) officials.

While several, non-specific statements have been made by representatives from Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) during the past few months, a PAC senior representative recently told IHS Jane's , "We are completely satisfied with this Russian-made engine.

"When we designed the JF-17 we evaluated a number of design alternatives and we determined that the RD-93 in this single-engine installation is absolutely right for this application," he said. "We worked extensively with the people from Klimov bureau in St Petersburg [Russia] and this engine turned out to be an ideal solution."

PAC representatives added that the next step is to establish a full-scale servicing and overhaul facility for the RD-93 at their plant in Kamra.

"What does this tell you?" asked one programme officer rhetorically. "If the situation was as it has been portrayed at times - that we are just utilising the RD-93 as a temporary solution until the Chinese can 'save' us with their own new engine - then we would not be expending the resources to set up this overhaul base. For us, changing to another engine would not make any sense and would be disruptive and cause a huge expense for the JF-17 programme."

PAF officials told IHS Jane's at the 2015 Dubai Air Show that improvements to the JF-17's design and the reliability of the RD-93 have attracted a number of interested parties.

"The experience at [the Paris Airshow in] Le Bourget brought about 11-12 countries that approached us with some interest in a JF-17 acquisition," said one of the officials. "Out of all of those there are today some four or five customers that we regard as being serious prospects in the near term." PAC representatives declined to name any of those countries, however.

If Pak decided to stick with RD93 then Pakistan has finalize to induct J31 , because R93 is the mother engine of this plane. Otherwise , RD93 inducted as stop gap, and later adopted Chinese engine for JF17. It's good policy has one type of engine, even RD93 has technical issues.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its strange because we have been operating Engines since 60's , and we have not bothered to open a engine cut it open and let our engineer study its parts and attempt a prototype copy

 

[Penguin]

Make a nice EJ200 equipped, NATO compatible export version, and you could land some orders in former Warsaw pact countries. Engine comparison, see bottom of this post:
Global: What is the best fighter for Croatia?

 

[CHI RULES]

Its strange because we have been operating Engines since 60's , and we have not bothered to open a engine cut it open and let our engineer study its parts and attempt a prototype copy

If it's so simple why even China is struggling to develop modern jet engine?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

To not even try for 40 years

Else where people are taking engines and fitting them in drag cars and racing on ground
Cut open an Engine and start making prototypes , not that hard to do

What is the worse that will happen it will blow up , keep testing until to stop it from blowing up in test centers

Pakistan had a good engineering backbone in 60's and 70's , and we could have invested 100 Million on R&D on engine back then and would have been reaping rewards of that research by now

 

[Defender@@]

If you understood air combat---you would understand that Hard Point " is the least of the problems----7 are a very good number----it is the loiter time that is a problem----.

What do you know of hard points----do you think that it is a donkey that you are loading up every time the aircraft takes flight.

Had you read my post with open eyes,, you had noticed that I have said that it has enough hard points,,, so before jumping on to the conclusion for start trolling others do read carefully...

And furthermore you can't say it good ... F16 has 9, even Tejas has 8,, so its upto the mark and satisfactory only ,,, but not good enough ,,, i don't know what are your standard of good or bad,,, but mine and of other sensible persons of good and satisfactory remarks are in comparison to other light weight fighters,,,

anyway stop this non sense trolling here ...

Its strange because we have been operating Engines since 60's , and we have not bothered to open a engine cut it open and let our engineer study its parts and attempt a prototype copy

Its not about engine design,,, its more about engine metallurgy,, the materials use and its compsitions is very complex science,,, although I agree we should invest in engine manusfacturing ...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Science is about prototyping , failing and failing and failing until the composition works

The alloys and material used in internal parts of engines are heat resistant etc and have been discovered by pratical science etc

However , lack fo similar R&D in Pakistan is sad as we don't even invest 100 Million on that work

A 100 Million grant can keep 50-70 Scientist busy for quite few years to make a decent prototype local Engine

 

[Defender@@]

Science is about prototyping , failing and failing and failing until the composition works

The alloys and material used in internal parts of engines are heat resistant etc and have been discovered by pratical science etc

However , lack fo similar R&D in Pakistan is sad as we don't even invest 100 Million on that work

A 100 Million grant can keep 50-70 Scientist busy for quite few years to make a decent prototype local Engine

I totally agree we should start now

However, to start with I think working with Chinese on their R&D or arrange for ToT with already matured platform could be better idea than start from scratch... results will be for sure,, in R&D chances of failure remains there but ToT chances of failure are negligible,,,

ToT can form basis of future R&D for advancement...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If could get into the R&D aspect of the Chinese Engine that would be great , to train 400-500 Engineers

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

If Pak decided to stick with RD93 then Pakistan has finalize to induct J31

Not necessarily. J-31 need more powerful engine and RD-93 is just stop gap for now.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

For the purpose the JF17 is built----you do not need to build your own engine if you did not have one beforehand in service.

Your primary partner is already building one for you---your secondary partner is already supplying them as many as you need----and your tertiary partners to be---are waiting on the sidelines.

So----where does it make any sense to build one of your own.

It took Hyundai corporation over 20 years of operations in the U S to start thinking of building their own engine. They used the engines procured from mitsubishi all that time. They might have been using the mitsubishi engine on their cars in korea before that.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sir
Isn't smoke screen is issue in WVR fight as it make aircraft easy to find?
Also will RD93 be able to power AESA in block 3 and will be able to lift further payload in the form of more weapons,fuel and EW pods?

I believe this decision is taken to keep the overall price of air craft low by compromising it's performance......

I wonder at the utility of this smoke trail thinking about the kind of speeds , merging and turnings required to get a lock on between 2 or more opponents flying at hundreds of miles per hour.
the culprit smoke trail is also not sustained and continuous and when the plane is turning then its pretty much a cloud so I would worry about other important things than this cosmetically annoying thing.

 

[salarsikander]

Exactly.Pakistan cannot do things like launching satellites or making advanced destroyers or ABMs.Pakistan has forex kitty of $20b whereas India has a forex kitty of $350b.


India's equivalent of Pakistan JF-17 program is Su-30MKI program.That has been quite a success with over 220 fighters built so far(incl 180 in India).
Whereas Pakistan has built only 55-60 JF-17 so far.

Hi,

Not at all sir. You upgraded an aircraft whereas we went onto develop one with our limited industrial capacity in jv with China. Let's not talk about getting spares, just the other day a deal was signed to secure supply for compomenets.

 

[HAIDER]

Not necessarily. J-31 need more powerful engine and RD-93 is just stop gap for now.

Yes, it need it, but don't have it. J31 has been built on engine weight ratio . So, J31 need similar specs of RD93.