Pakistan to push for AH-1Z Viper sale.

[Edevelop]

We should start thinking ahead. Need to develop our own Helio program.

 

[HAIDER]

Well who ever is in PA think tank he is bigget stupid they troll than they freeze themselves

Well, these army people knows and they have reports where extra US or NATO cobra are sitting and which country dlepot. Its just plug and play. Pak army desperately need attack helo right away without any delay. Pak army aviation has maintenance infrastructure of these helo. These terrorist scared of two items, Drones and Attack Helicopter. They have no solution to counter these two .

Russian delivery seems sure shot.....but never know Indian role behind the curtain. Its first test of Russian....delivery is due around June...let's see....Russian pass the test or Pakistan keep hanging and end up bragging for more Cobra...

 

[Paksanity]

These super loaded attack helis are for photo sessions only. Pak Army would load them according to perceived mission. Loiter time and range are more important to mission success and heavy loads reduce it drastically.

My pick for Pa would be

1. AH-1Z for proven operational status, ease and most economical running costs (trust me on this people), Pa will be able to quickly employ it given their experience. If sensors like night vision, targetting, weapon guidance is the game changer then Nothing, I say Nothing comes even close to Us technology. It has its Cons though. It comes at political price and initial price will be high. You will also get stuck with spares should they run out of love
2. Mi-28 Russians are good with Choppers and we have experienced that. Though infereior to Ka-50/52 it still gives very good Bang for buck. It has all we are looking for but we may be stuck if they withdraw their support. Russian machines are heavy on maintainers and their sensors quality should be reasonably good. There is alot of politics to consider in this deal.
3. T-129. Two things go against with lot going for it. System is not fully mature and that is a biggy. Militaries always wait for systems to mature before they take the plunge. Then there are morE nations involved and we may not be comfortable with that. Otherwise it should be at par with Ah-1z if not better.
4. Any of Chinese ones. You get them cheap and have the spares available. Chinese while have made a lot of progress recently they have long way to go. Their metallurgy and quality control has to improve which translates into shorter maintenance cycles thus higher operating costs. It actually is costlier to run a Chinese machine. Their sensors are not upto the mark and specs are often blown. Nothing against their achievements but they haven't reached the level of western and russian quality.

Why Ah-64 is not in the list? Its not suppose to be. Too expensive to buy and too exclusive to maintain. Too new to train on and we will be better off having few more of Cobras than these.

Thats my point of view after talking to some relevant people. Feel free to disagree....

 

[Hurter]

These super loaded attack helis are for photo sessions only. Pak Army would load them according to perceived mission. Loiter time and range are more important to mission success and heavy loads reduce it drastically.

My pick for Pa would be

1. AH-1Z for proven operational status, ease and most economical running costs (trust me on this people), Pa will be able to quickly employ it given their experience. If sensors like night vision, targetting, weapon guidance is the game changer then Nothing, I say Nothing comes even close to Us technology. It has its Cons though. It comes at political price and initial price will be high. You will also get stuck with spares should they run out of love
2. Mi-28 Russians are good with Choppers and we have experienced that. Though infereior to Ka-50/52 it still gives very good Bang for buck. It has all we are looking for but we may be stuck if they withdraw their support. Russian machines are heavy on maintainers and their sensors quality should be reasonably good. There is alot of politics to consider in this deal.
3. T-129. Two things go against with lot going for it. System is not fully mature and that is a biggy. Militaries always wait for systems to mature before they take the plunge. Then there are morE nations involved and we may not be comfortable with that. Otherwise it should be at par with Ah-1z if not better.
4. Any of Chinese ones. You get them cheap and have the spares available. Chinese while have made a lot of progress recently they have long way to go. Their metallurgy and quality control has to improve which translates into shorter maintenance cycles thus higher operating costs. It actually is costlier to run a Chinese machine. Their sensors are not upto the mark and specs are often blown. Nothing against their achievements but they haven't reached the level of western and russian quality.

Why Ah-64 is not in the list? Its not suppose to be. Too expensive to buy and too exclusive to maintain. Too new to train on and we will be better off having few more of Cobras than these.

Thats my point of view after talking to some relevant people. Feel free to disagree....

Aren't we getting Mi-35?

 

[Paksanity]

Mi-35 serves a different purpose. For COIN ops you will have to pair them with any of other type. Mi-35 can not be upgraded to the level of above mentioned. It is also vulnerable. Recently Bokoharam brought down two Mi-35 of Nilgerian military. Not a good idea to send them alone. They do have their place in inserting troops and provide supression during ops but dedicated attack helis are purpose built agile killing machines.

Also given our finances we are better off having Choppers that can also be used for tank busting role in eastern front. Mi-35 does not fit that role.

 

[C130]

ISLAMABAD: A high-powered Pakistani defence delegation, headed by Defence Secretary Lt. Gen. (retd) Alam Khattak, has reached Washington D.C. to take part in the 23rd US-Pakistan Defence Consultative Group (DCG) meeting.



But back to the business of the DCG, where Pakistan is also expected to urge the Americans to sell the upgraded versions of the AH 1F Cobra helicopters.

Pakistan will try its luck and push for the acquisition of the Cobra Zulu, again. The United States has already disclosed its intent to provide Pakistan eight Global Response Cutters, eight 25 mm or 30 mm naval guns, 32 M-2HB 0.5 mm caliber machine guns, 32 7.62 mm guns including other command and control, navigational and technical equipment all worth around $350 million

After army chief, Pakistan’s ‘Defendocrats’ woo Washington - thenews.com.pk


Pak army aviation Cobra in action

M=2HB , best helo mounted gun

30mm Naval gun

if they want them fine, but if they want to go with let's say the T-129 or Chinese one that's also fine by me, but we all can agree Pakistan needs attack helicopters badly.

 

[inaveed72]

And what about mi-28

 

[SQ8]

Don't know. Is it?

The Z-10 is a Kamov design purchased,adapted and put to use by the Chinese.

if they want them fine, but if they want to go with let's say the T-129 or Chinese one that's also fine by me, but we all can agree Pakistan needs attack helicopters badly.

The Zulu was the first choice of the PA for a long time, they've had their eye on it since the early days of the program. There had been earlier efforts to get the Whiskey as well but we were(in 2002) offered the Zulu so why the heck not.

 

[Jaam92]

Ah 1z Viper or Russian or Chines we need brand new not use items

 

[Donatello]

The Z-10 is a Kamov design purchased,adapted and put to use by the Chinese.



The Zulu was the first choice of the PA for a long time, they've had their eye on it since the early days of the program. There had been earlier efforts to get the Whiskey as well but we were(in 2002) offered the Zulu so why the heck not.

2002 was a mistake...they went for Cobra refurbishments.......but now the things have changed.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

This nation (specially Military) will never learn from its past mistakes.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Such a beautiful machine.

Upgraded with WZ16, It'll be an ideal candidate for PA's anti-armor attack heli fleet.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I am not sure why Americans would refuse something like engines.....i think it has got to do with Pakistan's paranoia more than anything. I mean, if they could approve the BLK52s with AIM120s..........seriously are Cobra or A129s more 'high tech' then that? Nope...not.

Cost, availability etc is one reason......and for faster deployment, Mi35/28 will rule the talibunnies equally well. When you have Russia..........why not go for it? You didn't have the Russian offer when the Cobra Zulus were requested first time.

Korea had an order for 36 Zulus for 2.6 billion dollars...with some Hellfire missiles as well.

On a side note, weren't all Cobras upgraded to AH1F standard with the FLIR/Thermal imaging?
@Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Horus

This post reminds me of a lady married to a poor daily wage earner.

She goes to the most expensive shoe shop in town and wants to buy 100s of pairs.

Instead of making sure she helps her husband make more money, she wants to spend what little he makes.

Ah 1z Viper or Russian or Chines we need brand new not use items

For brand new, you will need hard currency aka dollars

Pak nation refuses to settle down and create an environment for earning hard currency ((like chinese, S koreans etc)

We just have $10 billion in statebank (and 5 in other banks) and your post assumes we have 100s of billions of dollars cash in our pockets.

See my earlier post about shoe lady married to a daiily wage earner.

please,
you are clueless that plane is not suitable for such role it sill break appart mid air if it uses those weapons
i didnt want to be as blint as @Horus but what i can say is you cant just add weapons and avionics on a craft and expect it to fly as originally desion let alone use the weapons a combat platform is tested and designed with rugged and reinforced fuselage

Oh come on bahi jaan

Cessna was mentioned as a light plane.

Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano - Wiki

is a good military example of using small planes for COIN ops.

Much much cheaper to fly and equally if not more effective.

@FaujHistorian

Pls don't make a mockery of yourself by such silly posts.

I doubt you understood the concept of using "cessna like" plane while all these multi-guzzlliion dollar stuff that Pakistan has no way to pay for (and maintain).

Cessna was mentioned as a light plane. if you didn't like the name, use Super Tucano, that is excellent small plane for COIN ops.

You're right, all countries who are buying attack helicopters must instead go for Wright brother planes with duct taped weapons. Suprised no countries representatives have picked up on your wise words yet.

super tucano implements the concept I mentioned.

"All countries" who buy expensive weapons, have extra cash of billions of dollars lying around.


We in Pakistan have TOTAL of $10 billion in statebank (and 5 in other banks), that is good enough to pay for "essential needs like food fuel" covering next few months.

Apni jaib dekh,
phi khuwab dekh.

(look in your pocket before going to BMW dealership).

 

[waz]

The AH 1Z Viper in decent numbers, until the T-129B is available.

The Chinese platform is still maturing and needs testing by the PLA.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Here is a hypothetical question

If lets say we get Chinese Helicopters 58 of these helicopters, armed with 50 Rockets + 10 Missiles

So , is our Military better of with 0 Attack ships vs 58 , non mature helicopters that is 100% upgradable