Pakistan To Participate In Turkey’s TFX Next-Gen Fighter Aircraft Program

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Pakistan bought Mi-35's from Russia which was heavily opposed by India. The PAK FA is a Russian Fighter jet from the ground up. The FGFA is what India has joined in on. Obviously the FGFA won't be for export other then India like SU-30mki, But Su-35 has been an option. India doesn't control which equipment Russia exports. If Pakistan can look into Su-35's while India has MKI the same could happen for FA's. PAK FA and FGFA are different.

Pakistan will most likely be using the WS-13 once it's finished.

U and I have similar name.......heheh....So wither u talk or me...I m assuming its same.......hahahahha

 

[randomradio]

Pakistan bought Mi-35's from Russia which was heavily opposed by India.

India did not oppose its sale. It's actually a very old helicopter and poses no threat to India. India is giving away Mi-35s to Afghanistan. The Russians sold it to Pak in order to push them into fighting the ISIS that's gaining ground in Afghan and Pakistan. A lot of TTP militants have now joined ISIS.

The PAK FA is a Russian Fighter jet from the ground up. The FGFA is what India has joined in on. Obviously the FGFA won't be for export other then India like SU-30mki, But Su-35 has been an option. India doesn't control which equipment Russia exports. If Pakistan can look into Su-35's while India has MKI the same could happen for FA's. PAK FA and FGFA are different.

PAK FA and FGFA are the same. Both will have the same engine, same radar etc.

Su-35 is not on the table for Pakistan, regardless of what your reporters have been telling you.

Pakistan will most likely be using the WS-13 once it's finished.

So your stealth aircraft will be as small as the JF-17? If you use a engine of the WS-13 class, then your aircraft will be a light aircraft.

TFX is being designed for 2 WS-13 class engines.

 

[RedHulk]

WS-10 is too heavy. The EJ 200 is a far superior engine family, it has 30-40% less weight, better efficiency and can be upgraded to have the same amount of thrust.

That depends on how much fuel the TFX carries. The F-35 has 180KN engines, but has more than 8 tons of fuel. The AMCA is expected to have 230-240KN of thrust with 5.5 to 6.5 tons of fuel, similar to the F-15.

2 WS10A will be of 4 ton weight but the thrust of 260KN will compensate it easily and will allow to expand fuel n weapon bay in TFX. where as 2 EJ200 is of only 2 tone with 120KN. I know right now WS10A is still under improvement but by the time TFX will be assembled it will be ready for export to Pakistan hope so.
or may be a single engine of WS10A can be used with thrust of 130KN.

 

[Army research]

Please people stop saying JF-17 would be made stealth this will not happen unless Pakistan finds oil or gold , and even then only partly stealth like f15 it's later block if they come would not exceed the fourth generation so please and other man come on tfx is still on drawing board so why are you comparing it with other planes all we know it will be an f16 of the future hence paf interest

 

[randomradio]

2 WS10A will be of 4 ton weight but the thrust of 260KN will compensate it easily and will allow to expand fuel n weapon bay in TFX. where as 2 EJ200 is of only 2 tone with 120KN. I know right now WS10A is still under improvement but by the time TFX will be assembled it will be ready for export to Pakistan hope so.
or may be a single engine of WS10A can be used with thrust of 130KN.

It's not just the weight, you need to look at the dimensions also. The WS-10 is a massive engine. It will reduce your fuel load and unnecessarily increase your empty weight by 1T.

Single engine version will be inferior to the twin engine version if you are using the WS-10.

And you first need the engine before you start testing. And this process takes years, a decade at least.

 

[RedHulk]

It's not just the weight, you need to look at the dimensions also. The WS-10 is a massive engine. It will reduce your fuel load and unnecessarily increase your empty weight by 1T.

Single engine version will be inferior to the twin engine version if you are using the WS-10.

And you first need the engine before you start testing. And this process takes years, a decade at least.

Then only option left for Pakistan is to use twin WS13A of 200KN but then J31 already got them. So whats the big deal of joining TFX, Nothing, just go n buy j31 . Yayee we got the engine which made for us only Now lets start making TRX or i mean TFX

World Turbofan Aircraft Engines

19 tons (or 190 KiloNewtons) of wet thrust (which means with afterburner)
19.1 tons (for F-35/JSF) - Pratt & Whitney F135 (in service 2009 - dates are approximate).
Important note: F135 has a high bypass ratio and F-35 cannot supercruise.

18 tons of wet thrust
18 tons (for J-20) - China's WS-15 ("Initial Operational Capability"/IOC 2020. Successful prototype operation in 2005). WS-15 has a low bypass ratio and J-20 can supercruise.

15 tons of wet thrust
15.6 tons (for F-22) - Pratt & Whitney F119 (IOC 2004). F119 has a low bypass ratio and F-22 can supercruise.

15.5 tons - China's WS-10G (Global Security believes it was installed on J-20 prototype in 2011)

14 tons of wet thrust
14.5 tons (for T-50/Pak-Fa) - AL-41F (in service 2010)

13 tons of wet thrust
13.2 tons (for J-10, J-11, and J-15) - China's WS-10A (in service 2009)

13.2 tons (for Russian Su-30) - AL-31FM1 (in service 2007)

12 tons of wet thrust
12.5 tons (for J-10A) - AL-31FN (in service 2002)

8 tons of wet thrust
8.9 tons (for Eurofighter Typhoon) - Eurojet EJ200 (in service 1991)

7 tons of wet thrust
7.5 tons (for French Rafale) - Snecma M88-2 (in service 1996)

 

[waz]

Pakistan should take the opportunity.

 

[Mohammad ahsen]

hey pakistani brothers;
it may not be best fighter on earth but it would be ours (both TURKISH AND PAKISTAN) !!.

bro when her first block he best but we make best by upgrading him just like pakistan doing in jf 17

I hate to say but funding isn't that great an issue as far as the Turkish side is concerned. IMHO, they're fully aware of the financial aspects in this partnership. As the war against FETO is being won, the final bottlenecks are being put down one by one....

you not worry pakistan invest 3 to 5 billion dollar in this projecy

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

TFX is being designed for 2 WS-13 class engines.

This might be a possibility.

What is so far known is EJ-200 is offered. Turkey is still waiting for EJ-220 that is being developed for EFT Trench 3.

Turkey has also negotiated with Ukraine to provide engine technology that could be improved locally. However the exact engine is unknown speculations are it would be a new engine produced as a joint venture.

 

[randomradio]

Then only option left for Pakistan is to use twin WS13A of 200KN but then J31 already got them. So whats the big deal of joining TFX, Nothing, just go n buy j31 . Yayee we got the engine which made for us only Now lets start making TRX or i mean TFX

That's why one or the other.

But you can use that as a negotiations advantage. You can go tell Turkey China is offering this or that and vice versa, so you get a better deal. India's doing that with MRCA.

This might be a possibility.

What is so far known is EJ-200 is offered. Turkey is still waiting for EJ-220 that is being developed for EFT Trench 3.

Turkey has also negotiated with Ukraine to provide engine technology that could be improved locally. However the exact engine is unknown speculations are it would be a new engine produced as a joint venture.

Some misunderstanding here. I meant TFX is being designed for engines in the 90-120KN thrust class, like RD-93, F-414, WS-13, EJ200, M88-3 etc, not that they will be choosing the WS-13 or anything.

They have chosen the EJ200 family, but the British have put the brakes on their cooperation for now.

 

[Hassan Guy]

India did not oppose its sale. It's actually a very old helicopter and poses no threat to India. India is giving away Mi-35s to Afghanistan. The Russians sold it to Pak in order to push them into fighting the ISIS that's gaining ground in Afghan and Pakistan. A lot of TTP militants have now joined ISIS.



PAK FA and FGFA are the same. Both will have the same engine, same radar etc.

Su-35 is not on the table for Pakistan, regardless of what your reporters have been telling you.



So your stealth aircraft will be as small as the JF-17? If you use a engine of the WS-13 class, then your aircraft will be a light aircraft.

TFX is being designed for 2 WS-13 class engines.

Russian military hardware is available to Pakistan nowadays, they lifted their embargo a while back. The issues come from funding and cash.
I never said anything about a stealth Jf-17. WS-13 engine if for the current Block 3's which aren't LA's.

 

[randomradio]

Russian military hardware is available to Pakistan nowadays, they lifted their embargo a while back. The issues come from funding and cash.
I never said anything about a stealth Jf-17. WS-13 engine if for the current Block 3's which aren't LA's.

It doesn't matter, the Type 30 will be co-owned by India. It's like expecting Brahmos sales to Pak. And there are certain technologies that aren't available to anybody. Like Brahmos-2 is not for export. US, China and Russia won't be selling you any high power modern engines. You can at best expect export clearance for old generation engines like the WS-13, RD-93 and AL-31.

JF-17 Block 3 is also a LA, it will use only 1 WS-13. TFX is medium class, it will use 2 WS-13s 'class' engines, basically 2 EJ2X0.

 

[hussain0216]

That's why one or the other.

But you can use that as a negotiations advantage. You can go tell Turkey China is offering this or that and vice versa, so you get a better deal. India's doing that with MRCA.



Some misunderstanding here. I meant TFX is being designed for engines in the 90-120KN thrust class, like RD-93, F-414, WS-13, EJ200, M88-3 etc, not that they will be choosing the WS-13 or anything.

They have chosen the EJ200 family, but the British have put the brakes on their cooperation for now.

Turkeys military development is on western lines, if we opt for both J31 and TFX we can get a eastern and western plane from reliable sources

Or maybe Pakistan would jusy join to have access to some technologies that could be utilised in future Pakistan planes

 

[Signalian]

Turkeys military development is on western lines, if we opt for both J31 and TFX we can get a eastern and western plane from reliable sources

Soft loans is one viable way otherwise cash stripped.

Or maybe Pakistan would jusy join to have access to some technologies that could be utilised in future Pakistan planes

which future plane?

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex should have gone ahead to make a medium strike fighter after the development of JF-17. The world is progressing towards 6th gen which may be pilot-less while PAC's initiatives are not concrete, whether developmental participation in TFX or J-31.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Also, the 140KN engine is inferior to the F-35's 180KN engine. TFX requires more than 200KN.
So why will you buy two aircraft that do the same thing? J-31 is no different from the TFX.

what? the tfx needs 200kn? they have only released concept images let alone specs. heck it could be as small as the x-2 from japan. which has a wet thrust of 49 kn that 98kn combined. lets not jump the gun here. we dont even know what eurojet is offering here