Pakistan To Participate In Turkey’s TFX Next-Gen Fighter Aircraft Program

[randomradio]

Turkeys military development is on western lines, if we opt for both J31 and TFX we can get a eastern and western plane from reliable sources

The logic is sound, but that wouldn't make sense for the same class of aircraft. It's a major waste of resources. And Turkey isn't a reliable source if the engine comes from Britain.

If Pak goes for the TFX and asks China to develop a light stealth aircraft in the F-16/JF-17 weight class, then it would make sense. TFX would be ready only after 2030 while J-31 is expected after 2025. PAF can go straight for the J-31 and then look for something else to replace the JF-17s after 2030. But the drawback with the Chinese is they won't give you their best tech.

Realistically, your economy in the post 2030 period won't allow you to maintain a competing military with India. So you will have to start considering minimum deterrence even in conventional capabilities. So aim to have 4-6 squadrons of very high quality aircraft instead.

 

[Arsalan]

Sir,
In my opinion PAF should be looking to further develop the JF-17 programe with a stealth aircraft. This would be a single engine one...

TFX might provide Pakistan both designs hence reduced development costs.

As mentioned repeatedly, JF17 was NEVER meant to be a 5th gen. plane and it is already what it was meant to be. So all that can happen are gradual modifications and upgrades which will make this a more potent plane but in this same league!

 

[randomradio]

what? the tfx needs 200kn? they have only released concept images let alone specs. heck it could be as small as the x-2 from japan. which has a wet thrust of 49 kn that 98kn combined.

The Japanese aircraft will have two 150KN engines when finished. What they have right now is a TD.

we dont even know what eurojet is offering here

They've offered the EJ200 family with TVC.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...engine-for-turkish-made-fighter-jet/76890154/

 

[Blue Marlin]

The Japanese aircraft will have two 150KN engines when finished. What they have right now is a TD.



They've offered the EJ200 family with TVC.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...engine-for-turkish-made-fighter-jet/76890154/

you got proof they can squeeze that much power into an engine that powers a plane the size of an advanced trainer?

as for you second part. well done captain, obvious but what variant of the ej-200? euro-jet only makes one engine. heck it could be a new engine based of the ej-200. which is why i said euro-jet not the ej-200

 

[AlyxMS]

Then only option left for Pakistan is to use twin WS13A of 200KN but then J31 already got them. So whats the big deal of joining TFX, Nothing, just go n buy j31 . Yayee we got the engine which made for us only Now lets start making TRX or i mean TFX

World Turbofan Aircraft Engines

19 tons (or 190 KiloNewtons) of wet thrust (which means with afterburner)
19.1 tons (for F-35/JSF) - Pratt & Whitney F135 (in service 2009 - dates are approximate).
Important note: F135 has a high bypass ratio and F-35 cannot supercruise.

18 tons of wet thrust
18 tons (for J-20) - China's WS-15 ("Initial Operational Capability"/IOC 2020. Successful prototype operation in 2005). WS-15 has a low bypass ratio and J-20 can supercruise.

15 tons of wet thrust
15.5 tons - China's WS-10G (Global Security believes it was installed on J-20 prototype in 2011)

13 tons of wet thrust
13.2 tons (for J-10, J-11, and J-15) - China's WS-10A (in service 2009)

While I appreciate your optimism for Chinese jet engines, most data on the list is simply not true.

There's no data about the thrust for WS-15(the J-20 engine), Chinese military fans estimated it to be around 15.5 to 16 tonnes.

There is no "WS-10G". It's just a rumor that was around the Chinese internet back when the J-20 was flying for the first time. The rumor started because the J-20 used a never-seen-before engine nozzle for its AL-31F engine. And the only engine that has ever been installed on the J-20 is the AL-31F. From the initial "2001" to the lastest "2101".

The data for WS-10A seems reasonable but I would like to add that there is a rumored "WS-10B" with 14 tonnes of thrust(some optimistic people said it is 14.5 tonnes, personally I think that's unrealistic, you can't just improve a engine's TWR by that much). I won't have my hopes up but it might be believable.

Also thanks for mentioning the high bypass ratio for the F-135.
Something people are just forgetting when commenting about it's massive 180kN of thrust.
The high bypass ratio hurts it's high speed performance, something to be avoided for air-superiority fighters.

 

[Hassan Guy]

It doesn't matter, the Type 30 will be co-owned by India. It's like expecting Brahmos sales to Pak. And there are certain technologies that aren't available to anybody. Like Brahmos-2 is not for export. US, China and Russia won't be selling you any high power modern engines. You can at best expect export clearance for old generation engines like the WS-13, RD-93 and AL-31.

JF-17 Block 3 is also a LA, it will use only 1 WS-13. TFX is medium class, it will use 2 WS-13s 'class' engines, basically 2 EJ2X0.

AL-41 is not a huge jump from AL-31 (China is developing improved WS-10). Only 10-20kn difference, and it is available to Pakistan as it is engine of J-10. Even though they are meant for use in dual configuration they work in single as well.

 

[randomradio]

AL-41 is not a huge jump from AL-31 (China is developing improved WS-10). Only 10-20kn difference, and it is available to Pakistan as it is engine of J-10. Even though they are meant for use in dual configuration they work in single as well.

All the engines you are talking about will get you only light aircraft. Check what's on the F-16 first.

I don't think there is any point in continuing this discussion. Turkey has already chosen the EJ200 engines.

 

[Hassan Guy]

All the engines you are talking about will get you only light aircraft. Check what's on the F-16 first.

I don't think there is any point in continuing this discussion. Turkey has already chosen the EJ200 engines.

Many single engine plane's aren't LA's, those are for different purposes but still good.

 

[Centurion2016]

No offence

Why would PAF join a fifth generation project with a nation like turkey that has a fraction of the resources , know how technology and project expertise of China .....

Realistically the building of fifth generation fighter belongs to USA china and joint euro effort by Germany UK and france.

Even Russia is struggling with PAK FA.

I maybe wrong I don't see this going behind concept drawings.

License buildimg F16 under NATO supervision is completely different to building a multi billion dollr 5th generation fightr

CHINA & RUSSIA have tried for 10 years and spent billions dollatrs to achieve very little yet

 

[Hassan Guy]

No offence

Why would PAF join a fifth generation project with a nation like turkey that has a fraction of the resources , know how technology and project expertise of China .....

Realistically the building of fifth generation fighter belongs to USA china and joint euro effort by Germany UK and france.

Even Russia is struggling with PAK FA.

I maybe wrong I don't see this going behind concept drawings.

License buildimg F16 under NATO supervision is completely different to building a multi billion dollr 5th generation fightr

CHINA & RUSSIA have tried for 10 years and spent billions dollatrs to achieve very little yet

BAE systems is helping. Plus the engine will be bought as well.

 

[tarrar]

This is an excellent opportunity for our engineers to learn new technology & work on it.

 

[Hassan Guy]

When the Turks where considering the single engine variants including the canard one. What where the engine options being evaluated?

 

[cabatli_53]

 

[XILLAX]

The pic on the left side which airplane is showed ?

 

[muhammadali233]

The pic on the left side which airplane is showed ?

From the rough looks of the shaky photo taken from a patoto camera, it seems it is a F-22 Raptor screen shot from a PC game Arma 2