Pakistan to lease Nuclear sub from China?

[Bossman]

One there are no free lunches ..
what I quoting is cost of building one inhouse..clearly Pak Navy can not fund it at present.

Even India is leasing a SSN from Russia , but we are paying $600Million for ten year lease..maybe your friends won't charge you, considering your economic condition.

Has Pakistan ever tested submarine launched version of Babur or even a ship launched version of this cruise missile..besides payload of Babur is around 300 kg ..do you have nuclear warhead light and compact enough to fit its nosecone?

Still thinking like a clerk. Pakistani defence outlay is not fully public especially for srategic projects. It is public knowledge that right now Pakistan has more nukes and better delivery systems than India. It has built 2 new Plutonium reactors in last 5 years. One more reactor plus a reprocessing plant is under construction. Check the pictures of the latest Babur launch. It was from a different VLS canister used onboard ships. Testing underwater is matter of time. Remember we have submarine launched Harpoons and Excocets and can easily copy the technology and apply it to Babur. Pakistan has nukes lighter than 300KGs. You can deduce that from the various nuke capable delivery systems Pakistan has tested. If we get friendship prices for China it not becuase we don't have the funds or because they love us, it is because they have common straegic interest with us.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Still thinking like a clerk. Pakistani defence outlay is not fully public especially for srategic projects. It is public knowledge that right now Pakistan has more nukes and better delivery systems than India. It has built 2 new Plutonium reactors in last 5 years. One more reactor plus a reprocessing plant is under construction. Check the pictures of the latest Babur launch. It was from a different VLS canister used onboard ships. Testing underwater is matter of time. Remember we have submarine launched Harpoons and Excocets and can easily copy the technology and apply it to Babur. Pakistan has nukes lighter than 300KGs. You can deduce that from the various nuke capable delivery systems Pakistan has tested. If we get friendship prices for China it not becuase we don't have the funds or because they love us, it is because they have common straegic interest with us.

Can you expect a clerk to think any other way?

On a serious note: We don't copy technology, we customize & upgrade it, to our unique specifications!

On the rest of your post: Spot on, Bravo! Well Said!

 

[ares]

Still thinking like a clerk. Pakistani defence outlay is not fully public especially for srategic projects. It is public knowledge that right now Pakistan has more nukes and better delivery systems than India. It has built 2 new Plutonium reactors in last 5 years. One more reactor plus a reprocessing plant is under construction. Check the pictures of the latest Babur launch. It was from a different VLS canister used onboard ships. Testing underwater is matter of time. Remember we have submarine launched Harpoons and Excocets and can easily copy the technology and apply it to Babur. Pakistan has nukes lighter than 300KGs. You can deduce that from the various nuke capable delivery systems Pakistan has tested. If we get friendship prices for China it not becuase we don't have the funds or because they love us, it is because they have common straegic interest with us.

As always you are too full of it.
You have made a lot of assumptions, which you can not back up.

You are assuming you have a hidden military budget and which is being used build a nuke sub?..going to need some sources.

You delivery sys is better than us...back up your claim.

canisterisation of missile does not mean it for subsurface platforms(you just showed your lack of knowledge in the subject)..you need VLS tubes in the sub or atleast bigger torpedo tubes and missiles with additional booster..plus going to need a source, submarine lauched version of Babur is under development.

"Pakistan has nukes lighter than 300 Kg"--source

Guess what, Americans are also giving you lot of freebies ..guess they too love you?

PS : how many foreign technologies have you reverse engineered(copied) in past.

 

[Bossman]

As always you are too full of it.
You have made a lot of assumptions, which you can not back up.

You are assuming you have a hidden military budget and which is being used build a nuke sub?..going to need some sources.

You delivery sys is better than us...back up your claim.

canisterisation of missile does not mean it for subsurface platforms(you just showed your lack of knowledge in the subject)..you need VLS tubes in the sub or atleast bigger torpedo tubes and missiles with additional booster..plus going to need a source, submarine lauched version of Babur is under development.

"Pakistan has nukes lighter than 300 Kg"--source

Guess what, Americans are also giving you lot of freebies ..guess they too love you?

PS : how many foreign technologies have you reverse engineered(copied) in past.

You not only a clerk but a bad clerk. If you estimate the cost of Pakistan's publicly declared weapon systems with the its defence budget, they will not add up. Why should I back it up, you go back it up - thats what the likes of you do - live in virtual reality of Google and Yahoo. I know my sources, which are all public. After the 1857 war, the British decided that people from what is India today are good only as clerks i.e. mostly railways clerks except maybe for Sikhs and some Rajputs. All that back office outsourcing work that you so proud of is nothing but the extension of the clerkism you learned from your old masters. Pakistani books were not balanced when it was created, they are not balanced today and they will not be balanced in the future, but we will always be a pain in the a$$ for you and one day we will take you down.

 

[ares]

You not only a clerk but a bad clerk. If you estimate the cost of what Pakistan publicly declared weapon systems with the its defence budget, it will not add up. Why should I back it up, you go back it up - thats what the likes of you do - live in virtual reality of Google and Yahoo. I know my sources, which are all public. After the 1857 war, the British decided that people from what is India today are good only as clerks i.e. mostly railways clerks except maybe for Sikhs and some Rajputs. So what you Indians are so proud off if nothing but clerkism. All that back office outsourcing work that you so proud of is nothing but the extension of the clerkism you learned from your old masters. Pakistani books were not balanced when it was created, they are not balanced today and they will not be balanced in the future, but we will always be a pain in the a$$ for you and one day we will take you down.

See as I predicted, you are all hot air and no substance at first sign of being asked to back up your humoungous claims..you scuttle and try to take cover behind insults and innuendos .. hallmarks of inter-web looser.

Either you back up, what you claim with a credible source or scoot.

.......

That was a quick edit.. have you added up the cost..can you show the calculation..and also the source, that extra money is being used in your nuclear submarine prog?

 

[Bossman]

See as I predicted, you are all hot air and no substance at first sign of being asked to back up your humoungous claims..you scuttle and try to take cover behind insults and innuendos .. hallmarks of inter-web looser.

Either you back up, what you claim with a credible source or scoot.

.......

That was a quick edit.. have you added up the cost..can you show the calculation..and also the source, that extra money is being used in your nuclear submarine prog?

I remember watching some top experts on Indian TV after India exploded its nuclear device. They were so sure that Pakistan does not have the capability to develop or tests its own nuke. Loo and behold we exploded ours within days. The news about Pakistan leasing a nuke sub, if true, will be official soon and you will still be counting your beans. We bought $5b worth of F16s and upgrades, $2b worth of Erieyes, $1b worth of frigates not to mention domestic production of tanks, JF17, missiles etc. Add these number and see if they were covered in Pakistan publicly declared defence budget of $5b or so. If you had a sense of the power game being played in the region you would understand that there are resources available to Pakistan which don't show up in its budget. Pakistan has friends with deep pockets and I am not talking about the US or even China. Again they don't help us because they love us but because of a quid pro quo.

 

[ares]

I remember watching some top experts on Indian TV after India exploded its nuclear device. They were so sure that Pakistan does not have the capability to develop or tests its own nuke. Loo and behold we exploded ours within days. The news about Pakistan leasing a nuke sub, if true, will be official soon and you will still be counting your beans.

And you are acting like those same expert right now, that you know something possibly can't...when the official news comes out, you can blow your trumpets..but don't hold your breath.

We bought $5b worth of F16s and upgrades, $2b worth of Erieyes, $1b worth of frigates not to mention domestic production of tanks, JF17, missiles etc. Add these number and see if they were covered in Pakistan publicly declared defence budget. If you add a sense of the power game being played in the region you would understand that there are resources available to Pakistan which don't show up in its budget. Pakistan has friends with deep pockets and I am not talking about the US or even China.

Yes all these are covered in Pakistan's declared defence budget + foreign military aid given by US and loans given by China.

And your deep pocketed Arab friends are just taking you for a ride ..while they simultaneously fund Islamic fundamentalism in your country.

 

[Bossman]

And you are acting like those same expert right now, that you know something possibly can't...when the official news comes out, you can blow your trumpets..but don't hold your breath.




Yes all these are covered in Pakistan's declared defence budget + foreign military aid given by US and loans given by China.

And your deep pocketed Arab friends are just taking you for a ride ..while they simultaneously fund Islamic fundamentalism in your country.

Tell me where the missile and the new reactors are covered? where is the Saab covered? The $5B F16 deal is not aid. Defence is a single line in Pakistan budget, no details are provided. BTW you have just contradicted yourself. Your own statement now proves that it is very much feasible and possible for Pakistan to lease a nuke sub from China if it wants to. If it can do multi billion dollar cash deals why it cannot do a $100 or over 10 years for a 20 year old sub. Your Nepra is almost brand new and is costing $600 for year. Type 91 Pakistan is looking for will cost much less. $100 is a very liberal estimate. It think will be minimal.

Don't talk about Islam becuase you don't know what you are talking about. You just pick what biased western media spews out. So whats the big deal with being a fundamental. Half of the US is fundamental. The game is much bigger than a few crazy tribals and you are on the wrong side i.e. in bed with the Israelis and the West.

 

[ares]

Tell me where the missile and the new reactors are covered? where is the Saab covered? The $5B F16 deal is not aid. Defence is a single line in Pakistan budget, no details are provided.

Building Nuclear Reactor is not a part of your defence expenditure.
Testing of missiles under development is funded by the concerned development organisation.
Testing of inducted missiles is borne by your army..comes out of their budget(approx $3.5 Billion).

$1 billion Saab Awacs were bourne by your airforce, ...over a period of last 6yrs and is still paying for them.

Pakistan's F-16 have also come from the same source...your airforce has been paying for them for last three yrs and are still paying for them.

BTW you have just contradicted yourself. Your own statement now proves that it is very much feasible and possible for Pakistan to lease a nuke sub from China if it wants to. If it can do multi billion dollar cash deals why it cannot do a $100 or over 10 years for a 20 year old sub. Your Nepra is almost brand new and is costing $600 for year. Type 91 Pakistan is looking for will cost much less. $100 is a very liberal estimate. It think will be minimal.

When did I say that?..it can lease them especially if its on deffered payment like your jf-17. ..all I am saying is you can not bulid one of your own at your present economic condition..Navy which has budget of $1 billion can not afford paying for a submarine costing upwards of a billion dollars.

Don't talk about Islam becuase you don't know what you are talking about. You just pick what biased western media spews out. So whats the big deal with being a fundamental. Half of the US is fundamental. The game is much bigger than a few crazy tribals and you are on the wrong side i.e. in bed with the Israelis and the West.

West hardly talks about process of induction of fundamentalism in your society(because they were part of it), but your own analyst do..infact your Arab friends and American friends bore the cost of it 50-50..after all Taliban were created in your Saudi funded Madrasasand not your public schools.

 

[IceCold]

Can we please get back on the topic. If Pakistan wants to lease a nuclear submarine, it will eventually irrespective of what the so called ground realities speak off or even if we have a budget of just 1 billion for the navy.

 

[Bossman]

Building Nuclear Reactor is not a part of your defence expenditure.
Testing of missiles under development is funded by the concerned development organisation.
Testing of inducted missiles is borne by your army..comes out of their budget(approx $3.5 Billion).

$1 billion Saab Awacs were bourne by your airforce, ...over a period of last 6yrs and is still paying for them.

Pakistan's F-16 have also come from the same source...your airforce has been paying for them for last three yrs and are still paying for them.



When did I say that?..it can lease them especially if its on deffered payment like your jf-17. ..all I am saying is you can not bulid one of your own at your present economic condition..Navy which has budget of $1 billion can not afford paying for a submarine costing upwards of a billion dollars.

You have contradicted yourself in the same post. According to you the development cost of new weapon systems is borne by the development organization, so the development of a nuclear sub will not be born by the Navy. Rest of your post is also hog wash, still thinking like a clerk and trying to balance the books. You have no idea what you are talking about. Don't expect a Pakistani SSN is next few years but Just for the records there is enough chatter from multiple sources to indicate that some level of work is going on a small land based high pressure reactor which is test bed for a future ship based reactor. The hull is many years away - maybe after the 6 Chinese AIPs have been delivered. The Chinese subs with VLS will give adequate second strike capability so there is no hurry for a SSN. This is the reason Pakistan opted for the Chinese subs and not the U214 despite long-term financing available under export credit i.e.German were not willing to allow modification of the subs with larger tubes. Indian took more than 20 years to build a hull for its SSN, which still lack a reactor, I am sure we will take that long.

 

[ares]

You have contradicted yourself in the same post. According to you the development cost of new weapon systems is borne by the development organization, so the development of a nuclear sub will not be born by the Navy

Were you born yesterday and have no idea how a free market economy works? here listen closely, you might learn something(though I have my doubts)

A piece of weaponry is developed by a company(in this case a govt organisation)..Now they fund its developmental cost and fix its price..Now the concerned customer(in this case your navy) will have to buy this weapon from the company(your developmental org) at the ascertained cost...This price reflects the developmental cost borne by the company, depending on the number of units acquired.

. Rest of your post is also hog wash, still thinking like a clerk and trying to balance the books. You have no idea what you are talking about. Don't expect a Pakistani SSN is next few years but Just for the records there is enough chatter from multiple sources to indicate that some level of work is going on a small land based high pressure reactor which is test bed for a future ship based reactor.

IF you think, I don't know, what I am taking, why don't you produce a source and prove me wrong?

Besides when this chatter becomes a confirmed info from your ministry of defence..you can beat your drums.

The hull is many years away
- maybe after the 6 Chinese AIPs have been delivered. The Chinese subs with VLS will give adequate second strike capability so there is no hurry for a SSN.

Ok since so sure of yourself..pls do tell..which chinese SSK you are acquiring? does it have a VLS launch sys?
Or any modification to the sub will include a VLS?..but pls do give confirmed sources for the above.

This is the reason Pakistan opted for the Chinese subs and not the U214 despite long-term financing available under export credit i.e.German were not willing to allow modification of the subs with larger tubes. Indian took more than 20 years to build a hull for its SSN, which still lack a reactor, I am sure we will take that long.

Are you sure..it has nothing to do with Germany's reluctance to sell you their subs.
On a different note ..Germans were very eager to modify their U-214 for us and give them ability to launch Bhramos underwater(which is bigger than any of your cruise missiles)

 

[Indus Falcon]

Were you born yesterday and have no idea how a free market economy works? here listen closely, you might learn something(though I have my doubts)

A piece of weaponry is developed by a company(in this case a govt organisation)..Now they fund its developmental cost and fix its price..Now the concerned customer(in this case your navy) will have to buy this weapon from the company(your developmental org) at the ascertained cost...This price reflects the developmental cost borne by the company, depending on the number of units acquired.



IF you think, I don't know, what I am taking, why don't you produce a source and prove me wrong?

Besides when this chatter becomes a confirmed info from your ministry of defence..you can beat your drums.



Ok since so sure of yourself..pls do tell..which chinese SSK you are acquiring? does it have a VLS launch sys?
Or any modification to the sub will include a VLS?..but pls do give confirmed sources for the above.



Are you sure..it has nothing to do with Germany's reluctance to sell you their subs.
On a different note ..Germans were very eager to modify their U-214 for us and give them ability to launch Bhramos underwater(which is bigger than any of your cruise missiles)

Enough of you derailing the thread! If you are so confident about your incompetent forces, why are you howling and screaming on a PAKISTANI DEFENCE forum? Is it the inferiority complex, your insecurities, or incompetence? I'm sure it's all three 'I's"

 

[ares]

Enough of you derailing the thread! If you are so confident about your incompetent forces, why are you howling and screaming on a PAKISTANI DEFENCE forum? Is it the inferiority complex, your insecurities, or incompetence? I'm sure it's all three 'I's"

Come up with a reasonable retort regarding my post...however if you don't have the intellectual or the knowledge base to counter my post..you will be better off ignoring them.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Come up with a reasonable retort regarding my post...however if you don't have the intellectual or the knowledge base to counter my post..you will be better off ignoring them.

Your posts are nothing but a reflection of your inferiority complex! Like I keep saying, IF you were so capable, you wouldn't be howling and screaming on this forum!!

Why should we tell you anything about what WE are acquiring (your post # 102), since you have the knowledge base, go figure it out yourself! But Alas you can't! and it's burning you up inside!! All you can do is flame this thread with your delusions of superiority and invincibility.