Pakistan to get more SAAB 2000 Erieyes

[Ultima Thule]

I posted that long ago and also several other news in fact I was proven right so many times that I have forgotten few. Once I started a thread also on same issue when I was bashed and proven right after few months and as far as I know many MODS and members of this forum know about EFT and SU-35 thing and also J-10 C.


No order is not increased yet 72 will remain the number and yes they are thinking of what to do with EFT. Not very happy with them. So the moment they get F-15 they will take a decision

You proved all wrong and always wrongwrong you are living in your wet dreams and wishful thinking you fire your guns from others shoulders

 

[alibaz]

Dont take creadit of others. You are acting so childishly and narcissistic here now. It was @cabatli_53 who told us about ADA deal last year and the loan of 400 Million dollars. Where the F you came in to the scene and telling us about corvette deal few months ago ?

The Nuclear Submarine thing we all know about since 2006. It was confirmed once again in 2012 on PTV news ticker Pakistan has embarked on a 5 year old nuclear submarine program and @Arsalan gave some great insider scoop as well.

I still dont understand what the F you told us that we dont already know about ?

@The Eagle @TaimiKhan How long we going to tolerate the childish behaviour of this member spreading baseless rumors and polluting every other thread ?

Totally agreed but too harsh for the kid

 

[The Eagle]

There is no room for violations. Stick to the topic in hand and try to share your valuable input for the interest of readers as well as for the quality and productivity. The news which is mostly being attributed to unknown sources, the friends and unproven contacts, has no value in the real world when it comes to prove your point so, it would be better either share something with substance and back up the claim either being source by yourself (mostly are professionals and members known for credibility) or the official one. Except official sources, such claims are nothing and carries no weight except that can be presented as a personal opinion, which should not be emphasized repeatedly nor should be insisted and forced upon others. Repeating the same point again and again, does not add anything but mostly results in an annoying behaviour. As the one made his/her point, let others take it or leave but enforcing the same and repeating it without any source will be treated as in violation accordingly. Our actions will later speak about our success that one doesn't need to beat the drum every time.

 

[Zarvan]

Dont take creadit of others. You are acting so childishly and narcissistic here now. It was @cabatli_53 who told us about ADA deal last year and the loan of 400 Million dollars. Where from you came in to the scene and telling us about corvette deal few months ago ?

The Nuclear Submarine thing we all know about since 2006. It was confirmed once again in 2012 on PTV news ticker Pakistan has embarked on a 5 year old nuclear submarine program and @Arsalan gave some great insider scoop as well.

I still dont understand what you told us that we dont already know about ?

@The Eagle @TaimiKhan How long we going to tolerate the childish behaviour of this member spreading baseless rumors and polluting every other thread ?

*Mod edit: Derailing and off-topic discussion*

By the way I am not much into AWACS so what is difference between the model we are buying and GLOBAL EYE version ?

 

[volatile]

Hi if the news is true than it means that PAF is fulfilling the actual requirement of 2004 .

SAAB 2000 & ERIEYE AWE&C system
Article by S. M. Hali Pakistan Observer, July 18, 2004

The Pakistan Air Force spokesman confirmation that talks were underway with Sweden over the purchase of an Airborne Early Warning System, and the Swedish Embassy spokesman corroboration that the matter came up for discussion when Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf visited Stockholm last week and a Swedish Parliamentary Commission, which handles Defence-related deals, had approved the sale of the radar system has evoked the interest of defence analysts on both sides of the divide. Pakistan is opting for the acquisition of 14 SAAB 2000s, 7 for the PAF and 7 to replace the aging F-27 Fokker Friendship fleet of PIA. For the benefit of the readers, some details about the SAAB 2000 and ERIEYE AWE&C system are provided here.

After that PIA was offloaded from the deal and original numbers were 6 Erieye and 1 for training .

Rather than conventional rotodome antenna system, ERIEYE has a fixed, dual-sided and electronically scanned antenna mounted on top of the fuselage. This places much less demand on aircraft size and is designed for mounting on commuter-type aircraft. The ERIEYE is capable of 360° detection and tracking of air and sea targets over the horizon. The instrumented range is 450km and a typical detection range against a fighter aircraft size target is in excess of 350km.


Seaborne targets can be detected at 320 km (1998 miles), though this is a function of the aircraft’s cruising height. The electronically scanned antenna can scan sectors of interest frequently while others are monitored, and a single sector can be scanned in different modes at the same time.

So Saab offers wider and flexible options e.g a mere speculation in this regard is protection of EEZ and shipping routes which is doubt will be significant in coming years.

@MastanKhan as one sales man to another the importance of competition is well known Sir and you are absolutely right about Chinese/Russian systems and there impact on US/European offerings as well .e.g

J10C - F16 more
AESA Chinese JF17 - F16 V package sure short
Karakoram AWACS - Erieye
SU35 - EFT/F16s

Deal breaker in my view

J31 - F35/TAI TFX

After all no one is dumb enough to let go potential customer since PAF is one but lousy/Lazy Don't understand how business works .In our daily routine our tough customers having many options always get

- superior products
- competitive prices

Blast from the past just to reconfirm Mastan khan point

http://www.***************/forums/a...ld-paf-opt-recent-f-16-deal-news-etc-3636-22/
The Air Chief said 16-30 additional F-16s would enhance the PAF’s capability tremendously with very little cost because the logistics were in place, technical training was in place and pilot training was in place. When asked if Pakistan was getting the F-16s, he said he couldn’t say it for sure. Pakistan was not in a position to wait for F-16s for too long.

"If it comes, it comes as a bonus. I am not counting on F-16s." However, it remains a litmus test of relationship with the US. The clear-headed ACM believes Pakistan will have to acquire the latest technology because it is technology alone that provides you effective deterrence.

And it did come power to move from the deal

 

[cabatli_53]

Congratulations brothers. Those AEWC planes have ground surveillance capability and interoperability with other sensors/radars to establish a perfect situation awareness and network centric warfare capabilities for both air and naval forces units. The missiles fired from figter units from beyond visible ranges, can be directly guided by Awacs as well. Additional aewc order boost the capabilities of Pakistan...

 

[MystryMan]

No not happening from China we would get J-10 C

J10C is the current flying version or the a future update?

 

[Basel]

Congratulations brothers. Those AEWC planes have ground surveillance capability and interoperability with other sensors/radars to establish a perfect situation awareness and network centric warfare capabilities for both air and naval forces units. The missiles fired from figter units from beyond visible ranges, can be directly guided by Awacs as well. Additional aewc order boost the capabilities of Pakistan...

Eri eye can not guide BVRs, its USN's E2-D which have this capability.

 

[MystryMan]

First of all If the news is true Much welcome news and I am very happy
And know for all those who said money is problem "No money is not a problem , Problem is availability , doctrine , thinking , Priorities ".
J-31 will take 5-7 years to come on production line and after that 10+ years for maturity , what will PAF do till then? Don't tell me JF-17 han na !!!!!!!!!!!!! R any of you spoken with any technician working on JF-17 , leave high ranking officers on one side , any of you???????
JF-17 never meant to go against big birds of IAF , it was simple and cost effective replacement for A-5 and F-6 now we added F-7s too, that's it and this bird is for Migs and Jugs of IAF max M2K. Do not lesson to those who said its "Our own F-16 or it is more advance then F-16 that's y it is F-17" Many of them will come under investigation after new law passes .
IAF adding another heavy bird , that put PAF even in more danger so I m pretty much sure we will also have Heavy , very soon!!!!!!!!!!
Note: I will say again JF-17 is a blessing but with current airframe its just a small bird (but this bird"block-3" still and will be better then 50% of IAF). We need heavy for many reasons , countering SU-30 and Rafale is one of them . We can not have 200+ J-31 for every thing can we?

What do you mean by spoken to Jf17 technician?

 

[Liquidmetal]

Congratulations brothers. Those AEWC planes have ground surveillance capability and interoperability with other sensors/radars to establish a perfect situation awareness and network centric warfare capabilities for both air and naval forces units. The missiles fired from figter units from beyond visible ranges, can be directly guided by Awacs as well. Additional aewc order boost the capabilities of Pakistan...

Thanks for your great support our Turk brother! but this news is not cofirmed. I am also very excited about the ADA Corvette deal (hope it comes with VLS) and would love to see the Altay in our armoury... and of course ToT for the T129.

 

[ghazi768]

No and PAF is in doubts about J-31 being fully stealth

When in doubt about stealthiness of a fighter.. go purchase an unstealthy one.. what an idea..(sarcasm)

To be fair the ACM didn't say a single thing about buying additional AEW&C, much less Erieye, to PTV.

I think the original plan was always to purchase 6 depending upon contigencies. Some how along the path..some one suddenly in top position because of accident decided that 4 were enough.. and than an 'accident' opened up eyes and resulted in 'wapsi ka safar' to original.

 

[assassin123]

Look dear. RCS is not uniform value. it changes depending on what has been mounted on a plane.
Without any load <A2Aconfig <A2G config.
Rcs increases as per my above equation. Now coming to MKI , yes SU30/SU-27 Have largest RCS currently and thats what makes them much much vulnerable to long range detection and tracking which is where PAF has high chances of taking down MKIs more than mirages or tejas ,rafale. Actual RCS for unloaded MKI is around 15m^2 frontal while it can go upto 19m^2 with A2A/A2G config...Meanwhile Thunder has very tiny RCS , probably 6 times less than MKI . I dont know the correct value but by looking , it is no more than 2.7m^2 frontal. During BVR combat, Thunder can detect MKI even before MKI knows that it is being watched by thunder. Similarly ,thunder after getting bit more closer can track MKI perfectly at which point it can launch barrage of BVR missiles on MKIs without MKIs being noticed that it is being hunted. After doing that, Thunder can reverse ots route or perform some clever maneuvers to trap and surprise MKIs in WVR combat given that MKIs survive the BVR attacks which it can due to presence of very strong ECM systems.


dear , MKI is above 15m^2 .


Zarvan bhai bohat ziada fikarmand rehte hain . isliye aisi batein kabhi kabar karte hain

That's a wrong assessment if jf17 paints su 30 MKI it will show up in its RWR. The mki pilot will know that he is being detected and tracked.also MKI has a much more powerful PESA radar than the MSA radar onward jf17 so it dosent mean MKI can't see jf 17 before it sees MKI.but if PAF inducts a low probability of intercept radar (AESA) radar on jf 17 your words are true.

 

[WarFariX]

No and PAF is in doubts about J-31 being fully stealth


Most of them has

zarvan bhai ap bohat bolte hain

Not 15 years away i would say 9-10 years away

i would call both of you guys wrong

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

And yet a few years back Sweden denied to repair PAFs damaged ERIEYEs which we had to repair ourselves later on!

And that was a time when India was testing grippen !

P.S; What internal unrest? When did we use jets to bomb protestors to to help a coup etc?

India in fact has infact bombed entire cities in nort east India.

The main problem IIRC, was simply that noone at SAAB, capable repairing the EriEyes
had any interest whatsoever to travel to Pakistan.
The government policy does not block supporting existing orders.
You know what I mean by unrest in Pakistan.

Sweden sold RBS-15 AShM to Algeria (for its MEKO A-200AN), and Algeria is far from a fair and just democracy. As for India, what about the stuff happening in Kashmir?

Anti Ship missiles have lower classification than Gripen fighters.
If Pakistan was interested, I think there would be no problem.

understand the gripen was always open to pakistan and rejected due to various reasons, the awacs were sold simply because it meeted their demands. at the time musharaf was in control and was a "dictator" yet they still sold it to pakistan.
their is only 1 country that care about human rights before money and thats the germans.
money talks
just look at what the Saudis are doing in yemen yet they can splash out billions and no one cant say crap.

From June 2004:

ISLAMABAD --- In a setback to Pakistan’s efforts to get new generation Swedish-made Gripen fighter planes, Stockholm has said that it will not sell any weapons or weapon-related equipment to Islamabad.

“There is no question of selling them weapons or anything directly related to weapons,” Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds said after her talks with visiting Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in Stockholm yesterday.

Before his talks with Freivalds, Musharraf, who is currently on a tour of Scandinavian countries, said that Pakistan might be interested in purchasing JAS Gripen fighter planes from Sweden. “Pakistan is looking for a high-tech aircraft. Gripen is one of several alternatives,” he was quoted as saying by Swedish newswire TT.

Freivalds, however, said Sweden would not be considering the sale of any weapons or weapon-related equipment to Pakistan, media reports here said.

She also said the Swedish government has yet to decide whether to sell Erieye radars, which was sought to be purchased by Pakistan for its Air Force. She said a decision has to be made whether the radar came under the category of weapon.

 

[Dazzler]

The main problem IIRC, was simply that noone at SAAB, capable repairing the EriEyes
had any interest whatsoever to travel to Pakistan.
The government policy does not block supporting existing orders.
You know what I mean by unrest in Pakistan.




Anti Ship missiles have lower classification than Gripen fighters.
If Pakistan was interested, I think there would be no problem.



From June 2004:

ISLAMABAD --- In a setback to Pakistan’s efforts to get new generation Swedish-made Gripen fighter planes, Stockholm has said that it will not sell any weapons or weapon-related equipment to Islamabad.

“There is no question of selling them weapons or anything directly related to weapons,” Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds said after her talks with visiting Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in Stockholm yesterday.

Before his talks with Freivalds, Musharraf, who is currently on a tour of Scandinavian countries, said that Pakistan might be interested in purchasing JAS Gripen fighter planes from Sweden. “Pakistan is looking for a high-tech aircraft. Gripen is one of several alternatives,” he was quoted as saying by Swedish newswire TT.

Freivalds, however, said Sweden would not be considering the sale of any weapons or weapon-related equipment to Pakistan, media reports here said.

She also said the Swedish government has yet to decide whether to sell Erieye radars, which was sought to be purchased by Pakistan for its Air Force. She said a decision has to be made whether the radar came under the category of weapon.

Sorry mate, not buying your democracy rhetoric. Sweden, like any EU country would sold anything to anyone with money. No money, no honey. Simple.