Pakistan received 5 more F-16s

[nitetrogen70]

sick fighter i was wateing for this

 

[iioal malik]

Sweet news more F16 Helll ya ..soo does this mean our Jf17 thunders will be very close to f16 block 50/52+ opess i should shut up

God bless PAF
God bless PAKISTAN

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

just ok deal we already paid alot with our sacrifices and economy 1000% more loses so its just ok deal

If we get another 18 as discussed before it will be marginally good , but again , JF17 is our beast now

 

[razgriz19]

sorry guys but these are not the new ones.
these are the first three that were deleivered ealrier in June-July. please see below:

sorry but u are wrong!
there are two f-16 Ds in first batch! and 1 C. in second batch there are 2 Cs and 1D.
and if u look at the both pic carefully u will see the difference!

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

come on..
do you really think the scientists and engineers who have developed JFT, who have taken the old Mirages to next level, who made the F-7 turn into F-7PG and have many other acheivements at therer credit will be so dumb that they can not fighre out these "Kill Switch", of course only if there are any in first place...

in short words, there is no such thing, and, if there is any, we will fix it

regards!

ThaT's the spirit Bro. ...

 

[Arsalan]

PAF F-16 Block 52.
a bit old vedio but realy nice to see the beast in PAF colors...
YouTube - =HD= 1st Flight PAF F-16 Block 52+ (Pakistan 2010)

Enjoy..

 

[sathya]

pak will have totally 118 f 16s .. is that true?

 

[S.U.R.B.]

pak will have totally 118 f 16s .. is that true?

...............No

 

[Storm Force]

118 F16 wat paf are producing babies when the land at Pakistan Air Force base

So we Go From 45 + 18 confirmed

To fake pretend maybe will order some more 14 to 18

AND NOW 118

Why stop 118 LETS SAY 180

 

[PakSher]

118 F16 wat paf are producing babies when the land at Pakistan Air Force base

So we Go From 45 + 18 confirmed

To fake pretend maybe will order some more 14 to 18

AND NOW 118

Why stop 118 LETS SAY 180

Dil Jalay Indian, please use Indian Flag as avatar and be proud to be a back stabbing Indian. Hiding behind UN and other flag is like being a whuse. The actual number is 518, does that take your sleep away for 3 years.

 

[mourning sage]

118 F16 wat paf are producing babies when the land at Pakistan Air Force base

So we Go From 45 + 18 confirmed

To fake pretend maybe will order some more 14 to 18

AND NOW 118

Why stop 118 LETS SAY 180

u know what, u r one guy who completely destroys the joy of reading a thread by adding your stupid comments!!!!!!

 

[sathya]

By Air Cmde (Retd) JASJIT SINGH
Director
CENTRE FOR AIR POWER STUDIES

With the technical, flight and staff evaluation of all the six contenders for the 126 M-MRCA fighters now done, time has come to seriously look for a national consensus on the parameters of the selection. This is not a simple acquisition and the decision making will be extremely difficult unless we are clear of the key factors that should be decided upon in advance besides the technical specifications met and as no doubt spelt out in the RFP (Request for Proposals). Our decision must be guided by two basic factors: that nearly a decade has gone past from the time that IAF was looking for a 'Mirage 2000' type to fill the slot that has come to be described as the M-MRCA (Medium-Multi Role Combat Aircraft). This term is critically important for a number of reasons.


To begin with, like in most countries, the Ministry of Defense (ours is at South Block) would decide the mix of aircraft types that the IAF would need in future, based on the operational tasks and capabilities, that is, the quality and the quantity, while the Finance Ministry at North Block would look closely at the budgetary costs of acquisition as well as the 'life-cycle' costs which would have a major influence on defense budgets for the coming decades. An excessively high-performance (beyond the medium level fighter) will lead to higher costs and budgetary commitments which will force the size of the IAF to be curtailed when it actually needs to get back to 39+ combat squadrons and then expand to the Cabinet-sanctioned 50 squadrons. For obvious reasons the bulk of these factors should, and would, remain classified. Yet the informed public in the world's largest democracy needs to have some idea of at least the parameters that might finally go into decision making.


The most crucial parameter has already been indicated by the very nomenclature which provides the description of the type of aircraft required: that is, medium sized multirole combat aircraft. The necessity of this class of aircraft has arisen due to a number of factors. Firstly, we need to fill the gap that has already arisen due to life-expiry of a large force of MiG-21s. The only 'medium' sized multi-role combat aircraft left in the IAF today is the Mirage-2000 with an inventory of around 50 aircraft. At the level above that, we are already committed to the heavy Su-30MKI being manufactured at HAL for the past few years. And at the lower size level, we have already embarked on the indigenously designed LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) that was to have replaced the MiG-21s before they went out of service, which Russian-type itself was a 'light combat aircraft'. The LCA's glitches, which inevitably exist in all complex new designs (for example, the F-35), would no doubt keep getting resolved as we go along. Of course it would be useful if the vendor selected for the M-MRCA also gives assistance in incorporating the necessary improvements in the LCA to improve upon it.

In the class of heavy multirole combat aircraft, the choice was made (wisely under the circumstances) a long time ago and the Su-30MKI, which is the envy of our neighbors and the pride of the IAF, is already under series production and this type will likely equip over 60% of IAF's authorized combat force by the time the last Su-30 rolls out of HAL's Nasik factory. No doubt the FGFA fifth generation fighter (which is largely based on Su-30/35 technologies) to be jointly developed by Russia and India would at a later date add to the heavy category. About 16-20% of the authorized combat force (around 126-200 aircraft) would then need to be equipped by the medium multi-role combat aircraft, the balance 20%, hopefully by the indigenous LCA. This raises the question of what type and size of aircraft we should be looking at, subject to its operational parameters for satisfying the IAF needs.

The cost and performance of a combat aircraft broadly depends upon its size and weight and what avionics and weapons it carries. This parameter would virtually rule out the Boeing Super Hornet (an excellent aircraft in its class) and the MiG-35 (for another reason) but both not too far from the Su-30 in size or origin [Livefist note: The MiG-35's MTOW is much less than the Su-30's]. It would neither be prudent nor affordable to maintain nearly 80% of the combat force consisting of just heavy multi-role aircraft from a single source for the coming decades since the world situation would no doubt have undergone major changes during this period.

At around 24,000 kg maximum weight, the French Rafale and the European Eurofighter Typhoon also come closer to the upper end of a medium combat aircraft. They offer great advantage in the quantum of fuel and weapon load carried, but it is only actual operation and detailed cost calculations that can tell us of their desirability in our inventory. This leaves us with two types with obvious advantages of being clearly in the category of 'medium' multi-role combat aircraft that have been offered in the RFP: the US Lockheed-Martin F-16IN Super Viper and the Swedish Saab Gripen NG/IN, both configured specially to meet Indian requirements (hence the 'IN' in their nomenclature).

Popular perceptions may opt against the F-16 since this has been mainstay with the Pakistan Air Force since 1982 and recent inductions are raising that force level to as many as 118 F-16s in PAF inventory [Livefist note: PAF F-16 force levels are less]. These are being upgraded, but are expected to remain somewhat 'inferior' to the F-16s being offered to India which should be taken serious note of. While the F-16 would remain the backbone of the Pakistan Air Force, its Indian version would imply a maximum of 16-20% of the IAF combat force level with the Su-30MKI far outstripping it in numbers. There is also an advantage if the United States is willing to transfer (on lease or sale) 100-odd partially used F-16s from its Air National Guard to the IAF.

However, the choice that comes closest to the 'medium' multi-role aircraft that the IAF has been seeking since a decade ago (the Mirage-2000 type) is the Swedish Gripen IN which has maximum and empty weights at around 17,000 kg and 7,000 kg respectively, almost equal to that of the Mirage-2000. Since the Mirage 2000 is not in the running anymore, this makes it necessary to focus on the aircraft type closest to the medium combat aircraft, that is, the Swedish Gripen and Lockheed-Martin F-16, with the EADS Eurofighter Typhoon included at the higher end. Gripen's manufacturers could also offer some aircraft from Swedish Air Force reserves as an interim. However much would depend on what is carried by the aircraft in terms of avionics and weapons apart from its flying performance that meets our needs.

But there is a larger issue that should receive serious attention: this refers to the other matter we set out to deal with, that is the impact of acquisitions from abroad on our aircraft industry in the future. It is vital that the next fighter deal must go well beyond simple purchase and even local manufacture of the fighter and its major systems. Even the license manufacture option leaves the country dependent on external sources of supply. We were lulled in the past into the belief that 'transfer of technology' was taking place while the reality that it was 'production technology' that was actually transferred and not the essential design technology and data. This is why we have had to go back to Moscow to upgrade even the comparatively less sophisticated aircraft like the MiG-21. We now have the Su-30 being manufactured under license though we don't know how much design data is being transferred to HAL. This is probably the reason for Russian discomfort over inclusion of the offsets clause on new purchases from them.

Large investments in defense modernization with high-technology weapons, particularly the acquisition of new fighters must be leveraged to energize our defense (especially aerospace) industry once it is clear that they fit into our doctrine and strategy in the larger context of what quality and quantity of aerospace forces are required for the next several decades. This should aim to serve two key purposes: build interdependence through horizontal and vertical partnerships and, secondly, empower India's industry through capacity building with acquisition of modern aerospace technology. Both these principles are crucial to strengthening self-reliance through enhancing mutual dependence with countries and their industries that are willing to do so. These are also important for sustaining our broader techno-economic growth rates. But these requirements can be met only through process of acquisition and horizontal diffusion of technology beyond our present vertically organized hierarchical aircraft design and development model remotely, but firmly, managed from South Block. Global trends in aerospace industry on one side and India's growing technological and economic capabilities on the other, point towards seeking mutual advantages in pursuing the horizontal technology diffusion route. This is where the issue of offsets assumes great importance.
The offsets clause in our procurement policy may be seen by many as infusing FDI to the extent of 30-50% of every contract into our economy. In spite of large reserves of foreign exchange available, future FDI would continue to be an important factor. But this cannot be the primary reason for seeking offsets. We will need spare parts for thirty years or more. In between there will be many requirements of modifications and upgrades of the systems. We should be able to provide as much as possible from indigenous (mostly private) industry through joint ventures that must be negotiated now. The importance and extent of such agreements would be crucial to maintaining high serviceability and low accident rates of the combat force and hence its effectiveness during war over the next three decades, and more.

The IAF's new fighter would require a mid-life upgrade 10-15 years after it enters service and this should provide a benchmark criterion for offsets to establish the ability to design and undertake that in India. This can be expected only if the prime manufacturers establish the necessary design, development and production facilities in country. The Maruti-Suzuki experience of vendor development which has led to high levels of automotive parts exports needs a special look in this regard. It needs to be remembered that design and development is the foundation for self-reliance and till recently this had suffered in our aircraft industry. The new M-MRCA has already been designed elsewhere. But we still have opportunities to access design and development of components, systems and sub-systems in partnership with foreign enterprises.


Ultimately all this must fit into the principle of broader national interests and (grand?) geopolitical strategy to sustain them beyond system costs and performance factors. The question of American 'reliability' will continue to worry a lot of minds for a long time. But in this business, most suppliers would be under the same scanner. European policies in the past have raised doubts about the impact of US policies on even product support and now some EU partners' differences may also impact their future actions. The Soviet Union (and the relationship it had with us) disappeared long ago and new dimensions are already impacting Indo Russian arms relationship, not the least of them being the Russian high-end military technology flows to China and the China-Pakistan strategic nexus where China is one of the two suppliers of high-technology arms for the Pakistan Air Force. The signals that Moscow is sending out are not very encouraging.

In the ultimate analysis our decision on the new M-MRCA must rest on broader national interests.

A well-known authority on aerospace in India, Air Cmde Singh is currently Director of the New Delhi-based Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS). The former Canberra pilot has also headed the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA) in New Delhi. This column appears in the latest issue of Vayu Aerospace & Defence Review. A copy of the column was sent to Livefist by CAPS.

 

[sathya]

that s the reason i got doubt but live fist mentions
'[Livefist note: PAF F-16 force levels are less]'
may be tha article or author is so old that it mention about pak ambition before the earth quake after which f 16 buy is reduced

 

[silent hawk]

Sqn Ldr Zulfiqar and Sqn Ldr Afzal (GIBS) of No 9 MR Sqn destroy an intruding UAV (Searcher-II) of IAF on the night of 7th June, 2002, during Ops Sentinel. This was the first kill of a UAV by any fighter aircraft in the world.

It is very difficult to shoot UAVs because you simeltaneously have to be in the dynamic launch zone and also acquire the required infra red energy. This is the only UAV kill in the world to date and PAF achieved it with block 15 F-16s and AIM 9-L missiles.

What could India possibly do to protect its UAVs from Block 52 F-16s armed with AMRAAMS and AIM 9-Ms??

I posted this post in the F-16 discussion thread but I think it also has relevance here.

The point is that even before the block 52s PAF was very capable of defending Pakistani Airspace.

The quantity of the new F-16s is irrevant the capability of the PAF is what matters.

With the new block 52 F-16s along with c-7 type AMRAAMs coupled with PAFs advanced Air Defence Ground Environment and Air to Air Refuelling capabilities, the PAF is truly a force to reckon with.

At present the airspace of Pakistan is almost impenetrable. Panga Mat Laynaa

 

[wali87]

45 block 15s
18 block 52 (out of which a few have arrived) +18 option
14 block 52 (second order confirmed a few months ago, out of the option for further 18). Pakistan still can get the remaining four block 52s out of the option for 18.

= 77 CONFIRMED

about 14 Ex-peacegate F-16s are still being held by the US which are yet to be given back to pakistan. SO if we add that the number goes to 91. However i didnt yet come across the news on the remaining 14. could someone please enlighten me on tht.


http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2010/03/pakistan-to-get-14-more-f-16-jets-from.html

This should make it clear once again for my little indian friends.