Pakistan raises issue of F-16 sale with visiting US commander

[James David]

Chinese and Russian options. Only problem is the overhead related to integration of a totally new platform. IMO they should go though pain of integrating a new platform and get rid of this F-16 dependency once for all. As of this point its in US interest if they get more sales of F-16 which allows them to keep it in production. This program is already near to end of life.

Read my post #32. Why would we choose to get more sales for the F-16? When the F-35 is selling like hotcakes? @gambit and @jhungary may I get your inputs here? Again I am asking, "WHICH MUCH BETTER OPTIONS DO YOU HAVE?" as @Dalit put it aside from Chinese birds?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Options are simple

• SU-35
• J 10 C (Less chances due to less technology superiority)
• Typhoon (Less chances due to price tag)
• J 31 (Yes high chances but it will take some time as platform needs to be matured)

 

[Dalit]

You guys aint gettin squat from the Ruskies because they wont risk loosing India as a customer period. China on the other hand is I think more than will to give you what you need. So you have not answered my question about your post below. Which "much better alternatives you got?"



Which better alternatives? Simple answer for a simple question.

LOL An American dictating to us what we can and won't get from others... Don't be be too sure, buddy. You don't seem to be very familiar with world affairs lately, but India has been too busy shopping elsewhere. Besides, don't always lump India with Pakistani acquisitions. The Russians are an independent nation and can sell their hardware to anyone they like. They have been selling critical components such as engines to Pakistan for its JF-17 fighter. Pakistan wasn't supposed to get that either. You're sorely wrong about the Russians not selling their fighters to Pakistan. You'll be in for a nasty surprise.

China is another alternative and they can supply us with many options. The question is, what hasn't China given to Pakistan?

I have answered your questions in detail. I can't do anything about your denial.

Now, this what you need to get through your skull. Pakistan and US honeymoon is over.

 

[Photon]

You have been living in a cave. The F-16 are outdated machines. Pakistan has much better alternatives at its disposal today.

Pakistan has alternatives at its disposal, but not many and not better.

Su-35 is out of contention, even if deals goes through somehow, despite Indian opposition, PAF does not have the pockets to pay for and operate and entirely new class of Russian twin engined, heavy fighter bomber.

For the same reason Euro fighter and Rafael are out of question too, as they are insanely expensive.

Gripen though relatively cheaper than Rafael and Eurofighter to acquire and operate, is still a bit beyond PAF's meagre resources. And the fact, it extensively use American electronics and engine, Pakistan will require USA's permission and logistics support to operate these aircrafts.

J10 is one solid option available for PAF, As Chinese might offer soft loans and deferred payments, but it is nowhere close F-16s, and it lacks the refineness that comes with western aircraft, that PAF is so in love with .

Upgrading JF-17 with targeting pods and PGMs is the cheapest and most cost effective option available to PAF...to carry out their current mission.

But then most Western electronics are out of contention here too.

Sniper ATP - Pakistan already operates these, but American would never allow their TP to paired with a Chinese Aircraft.

Litening TP is an Israeli product, so out of question, besides India already operates these.

Damocles is a French product but, France is not inclined on a sale to Pakistan, As India is about to acquire them along with Rafaels.

Russia does not manufacture any worthwhile PGM targeting pod, they themselves operate French Damocles.

WMD-7 is the most viable option available but PAF is not too happy with its performance compared to its Snipers.

Even if PAF settles for WMD -7s , the major bottleneck of JF-17 is its limited range, It has to carry 3 drop tanks to carry out its mission profile. With only 7 hardpoints, only 4 are available to carry weapons and electronics.

Out of the 4 , the two wing type pylons can not carry AGMs , only Short range AAMs. That leaves just two hard points to carry a bomb and a targeting pod.

So yes options are available but none as ideal as twin seater F-16s that PAF had ordered.

 

[Dalit]

Pakistan has alternatives at its disposal, but not many and not better.

Su-35 is out of contention, even if deals goes through somehow, despite Indian opposition, PAF does not have the pockets to pay for and operate and entirely new class of Russian twin engined, heavy fighter bomber.

For the same reason Euro fighter and Rafael are out of question too, as their insanely expensive.

Gripen though relatively cheaper than Rafael and Eurofighter to acquire and operate, is still a bit beyond PAF's meagre resources. And the fact, it extensively use American electronics and engine, Pakistan will require USA's permission and logistics support to operate these aircrafts.

J10 is one solid option available for PAF, As Chinese might offer soft loans and deferred payments, but it is nowhere close F-16s, and it lacks the refineness that comes with western aircraft, that PAF is so in love with .

Upgrading JF-17 with targeting pods and PGMs is the cheapest and most cost effective option available to PAF...to carry out their current mission.

But then most Western electronics are out of contention here too.

Sniper ATP - Pakistan already operates these, but American would never allow their TP to paired with a Chinese Aircraft.

Litening TP is an Israeli product, so out of question, besides India already operates these.

Damocles is a French product but, France is not inclined on a sale to Pakistan, As India is about to acquire them along with Rafaels.

Russia does not manufacture any worthwhile PGM targeting pod, they themselves operate French Damocles.

WMD-7 is the most viable option available but PAF is not too happy with its performance compared to its Snipers.

Even if PAF settles for WMD -7s , the major bottleneck of JF-17 is its limited range, It has to carry 3 drop tanks to carry out its mission profile. With only 7 hardpoints, only 4 are available to carry weapons and electronics.

Out of the 4 , the two wing type pylons can not carry AGMs , only Short range AAMs. That leaves just two hard points to carry a bomb and a targeting pod.

So yes options are available but none as ideal as twin seater F-16s that PAF had ordered.

Su-35, J-10 variants, JF-17 upgradation and the twin seater version are all viable options. I never claimed that Pakistan is going to get Rafale or the EF.

 

[barbarosa]

Su-35, J-10 variants, JF-17 upgradation and the twin seater version are all viable options. I never claimed that Pakistan is going to get Rafale or the EF.

Are these countries ready to sell these aircraft to Pakistan.

 

[James David]

LOL An American dictating to us what we can and won't get from others... Don't be be too sure, buddy. You don't seem to be very familiar with world affairs lately, but India has been too busy shopping elsewhere. Besides, don't always lump India with Pakistani acquisitions. The Russians are an independent nation and can sell their hardware to anyone they like. They have been selling critical components such as engines to Pakistan for its JF-17 fighter. Pakistan wasn't supposed to get that either. You're sorely wrong about the Russians not selling their fighters to Pakistan. You'll be in for a nasty surprise.

China is another alternative and they can supply us with many options. The question is, what hasn't China given to Pakistan?

I have answered your questions in detail. I can't do anything about your denial.

Now, this what you need to get through your skull. Pakistan and US honeymoon is over.

I wasn't dictating you or whatever. You on the other hand is grasping on straws. Now you resort to bashing the US of A because you dont have a clear answer to a simple question? Seriously man! Why bash the USA when you can just answer in professional manner? And if what you guys say that JF-17 fighter is that good as all the fuss is saying why insist on getting F-16's? Simple questions need not complicated answers. Now if your idiot of a brain cant process that, nevermind answering. Im out of here!!!


Thanks for the answer @Cool_Soldier , thanks buddy!!! now why cant others be like you dude?

 

[Dalit]

Are these countries ready to sell these aircraft to Pakistan.

As far as Su-35 or any other Russian fighter is concerned, talks have been ongoing. Officials at the highest leven in both countries have confirmed this on multiple occasion.

I don't think I have to explain that China is always ready to sell its fighters.

I would preferably opt for upgrading the JF-17. Needless to say, but it is a homegrown project and it can easily substitute the F-16 in our fight against militants.

 

[James David]

Are these countries ready to sell these aircraft to Pakistan.

Good question specially the SU-35.

 

[Dalit]

I wasn't dictating you or whatever. You on the other hand is grasping on straws. Now you resort to bashing the US of A because you dont have a clear answer to a simple question? Seriously man! Why bash the USA when you can just answer in professional manner? And if what you guys say that JF-17 fighter is that good as all the fuss is saying why insist on getting F-16's? Simple questions need not complicated answers. Now if your idiot of a brain cant process that, nevermind answering. Im out of here!!!


Thanks for the answer @Cool_Soldier , thanks buddy!!! now why cant others be like you dude?

I've been reading your hateful posts on this forum. You don't have to explain to me what a nice of a person you are.

Having said that, I have answered your questions adequately. The problem with you is that you pose questions and at the same dictate the answers. Just read your own posts to get an idea. You can't have it both ways. Be my guest though.

 

[James David]

I would preferably opt for upgrading the JF-17. Needless to say, but it is a homegrown project and it can easily substitute the F-16 in our fight against militants.

No its not a home grown project. It was done in cooperation with the Chinese. Don't take all the credit. and if it can easily be substituted for the F-16 why insist on getting the F-16? Well just a thought.. I'm out of here!!

 

[BABA AGHORI]

Su-35, J-10 variants, JF-17 upgradation and the twin seater version are all viable options. I never claimed that Pakistan is going to get Rafale or the EF.

Su 35 - literally nill chance becoz Ruskiess will not risk it for multi-billion Indian market.
J10 - Possible - a new platform - how feasible candidate it is to qualify to be a completely new platform induction. (serious question in my head)
jf17 - a good practical possibility - but with all the goodies of block 3 it will not be a cheap fighter to induct in big numbers.

 

[James David]

I've been reading your hateful posts on this forum. You don't have to explain to me what a nice of a person you are.

Having said that, I have answered your questions adequately. The problem with you is that you pose questions and at the same dictate the answers. Just read your own posts to get an idea. You can't have it both ways. Be my guest though.

Naaah! I did not post hateful post here or anywhere man. Now after bashing the US of A you resort to personal insult? Thats is a measurement of how mature you are a Pakistani who claims to be in the Netherlands. Enjoy smoking pot there buddy!!!

 

[Dalit]

No its not a home grown project. It was done in cooperation with the Chinese. Don't take all the credit. and if it can easily be substituted for the F-16 why insist on getting the F-16? Well just a thought.. I'm out of here!!

It is the Obama administration which directly offered the F-16 to Pakistan. Get your facts right.

Secondly, the JF-17 project was developed in cooperation with China, but we produce a whole lot at home now. Surely, Pakistan will always benefit quantum leap in upgrading the JF-17 as opposed to acquiring a highly sanction prone fighter like the F-16. That's my argument.

You want to get out? Feel free.

Su 35 - literally nill chance becoz Ruskiess will not risk it for multi-billion Indian market.
J10 - Possible - a new platform - how feasible candidate it is to qualify to be a completely new platform induction. (serious question in my head)
jf17 - a good practical possibility - but with all the goodies of block 3 it will not be a cheap fighter to induct in big numbers.

Again, the Su-35, J-10 variants and JF-17 upgrade are all possibilities. We can't do anything about your denial. All I know is that Pakistan has been conducting high level talks with Russian counterparts and this has been confirmed at the highest level. I take the word of those officials very seriously.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/pakistan-wants-10-more-f-16s-or-does-it-want-russian-su-35s/

 

[MastanKhan]

Sad, but true. Your neighbor turned them down during the MRCA bid. Israel is a different story. They have been getting their crap from us for darn near free for years - so yeah, it's cost effective to them.

Sir,

These generals don't listen---. I tried to tell some of them indirectly that you cannot threaten the U S---like stating " if you don't give us we will go elsewhere --- it is not the 90's "---that was done in bad taste.

That was crass and it was rude and that does not go well. It is just like going to your favorite banker and telling him on his face---give me the money or I will go elsewhere.

They don't understand that things have changed drastically in the u s in the last few years. If they would not have kept their mouths shut and stated that yes---Osama killing was our part of the planning---we would not be seeing this day.

They thought that as the generals ( the U S and the pakistani ) know the truth and what they do together---it is all well and good.

There was also a time that the pakistanis claimed that they can buy with cash---everyone will sell them---now they have found out---that even cash does not work----.

But friendship works---a smile on the face works---good relations work---. People to people contacts work---.

Soldiers cannot make car deals---.