US Approves Possible Sale Of F-16 Equipment To Pakistan: Pentagon

[Signalian]

That means, by laws (American laws of course), nations who buy American weaponry systems sign up for serfdom. Oh wait, they pay for their own bones guarding American interests.


Pak government is very happy to pay for their own bones using their people's money to guard American interests.

I have a question though... If Pak is willing to pay $450 mil. for some jets that cannot guard Pak airspace against Indian threat and that are inferior to JF17-III's AESA radar and PL15, PL10, why do you think Pak can convince other nations to buy the JF17-III?

Mind blowing.

PAF is using F-16s to guard own airspace and much more. If you think that IAF is/will be kept at bay through AESA + PL-15 combination, then you have no idea of regional dynamics mired with IAF psyche. Its these 75 machines armed with AMRAAM that created a stir since 1980's. Eventually the same brought down 2 x IAF aircrafts in 2019. IAF takes the threat of F-16 very seriously while JFT and J-10 come later. IAF showing the world parts of AMRAAM to international audience was sending a begging message across to USA to force Pakistan not to use F-16s against IAF. 500 AMRAAMs providing air support for ground operations in COIN ops, sure !

IAF sent in M2Ks for strike in AJK, a handful of around 50 are in service while 200+ SU30MKI are in IAF's service too, with better radar, payload capacity and range. Its the same SU30MKI that was supposed to chew F-16's, JFT's and Mirages in combat, but it wasn't even selected as a critical strike option. Tejas was operational in 2019 also with better avionics and weapons according to Indians. IAF had to send in M2Ks even with such glorious options.

JFT is being sold on its capabilities already, its an export success though in small numbers.

 

[araz]

I think the best course of actions, for real security and financial reasons, is to sell these F16's to other countries while they're still worth something. Who knows.. might get $30 mil each jet, not including the missiles. No point of sinking another $450 millions knowing they can't be used against India (American interest). With the $450 mil. plus proceeds from the sales, Pak could buy more JF17-III or J10C or newer airborne radar plane that guarantees air superiority over India. Even JF17-III has better radar and missiles than these expensive and useless F16's.

I dont know whether to laugh and cry. It maybe your opinion and as such needs to be respected. But as a picture of ground realities, it is a pathetic version.
We have legacy fighters still in use because we dont have enough money to replace them. Instead it is suggested we sell off fourth generation fighters which are fully integrated with our AEWACs with the most feared AMRAAM of the era and WVRs which although behind the time are still a very potent weapon system, PODs which are considered to be the best in the world plus lose 75 fighters which serve as our backbone with no money to replace them! I dont know which planet people come from but in my book these F16s are essential for our defence
As to use against India, I do not think it is as simple as that. In war all supplies to a war zone will be cut. This will remain the case with the IAF Rafale as well. This is the norm per UN regulations. Most non EU/US sources will clandestinely keep supply chains open as in Russia/China and possibly charge more.
The likelihood is that as sanctions impede Pakistani F16s they will impede the Rafales as well. The local air forces mitigate this by keeping war time spares in place. War in the Indo Pak arena is likely to be short and devastating. It is therefore likely that the spares issue may not be all that relevant. The US will not impede the F16s in any war as a war kill is a huge advert in favour of the lethality of the US equipment. So they might sanction you afterwards but privately pat our backs in appreciation as a war kill against a Rafale will be a huge event. So things need to be understood in perspective and not in isolation.
A

 

[Olympus81]

22 pages of posts, and I still can’t come to a conclusion whether the PAF F16s come with kill switches or not?

 

[Signalian]

22 pages of posts, and I still can’t come to a conclusion whether the PAF F16s come with kill switches or not?

Yes the fearsome kill switch. Kill switch happened in 2002, 2011 and then in 2019. USA used kill switch to disable PAFs F-16s before they could take down IAF UAV, Mig-21 and SU-30. PAF lost all at least 3 x F-16s due to kill switches do far.

Thats how USA plans to bring down PAFs F-16 inventory - the kill switch.

 

[Olympus81]

Yes the fearsome kill switch. Kill switch happened in 2002, 2011 and then in 2019. USA used kill switch to disable PAFs F-16s before they could take down IAF UAV, Mig-21 and SU-30. PAF lost all at least 3 x F-16s due to kill switches do far.

Thats how USA plans to bring down PAFs F-16 inventory - the kill switch.

Imagine what a kill switch would do to American arms sales to other countries.

The downside is just not worth it.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Hi,

Well---look at the geography of Punjab---. Every conqueror going into the sub continent had to go thru Punjab and on rare occasions thru sindh---.

With no natural barriers and hiding places--Punjabis had to endure more sufferings that most other nation put together.

City of Multan is over 5000 years old---. No other city has been placed geographically in a place where poor warrior nation on one side and rich sub continent on the other side.

Every conquerer coming from AFG had to conquer this city.

there comes a time in life of generations where death before dishonor does not mean much & personal survival becomes paramount---. That makes one suck hard and deep.

Every conquorer to invade n rule india for a duration always conquered Afghanistan first.
The mughals who happened to be turk from the step first conquered afg n had a governor in Kabul. As long as the mughals had a man in Kabul, ruled india effectively n the day they lost Kabul they lost their hold on india.

One thing we all need to understand if our govt. Every conducts a DNA test of the general population in Pakistan...it will become clear that 90% of the people residing inherent are not ppl of the land but rather have come n settled there over time, mostly from central asia

 

[MastanKhan]

Imagine what a kill switch would do to American arms sales to other countries.

The downside is just not worth it.

Hi,

Exocet AsM's that the Argentinians launched at the British fleet had a " KILL SWITCH " in it. The british forced the french to release it to them---after that we all know what happened---. The missile proved to be a DUD

How many times do I have to share it to public.

Technical issues need to be discussed in a technical manner---.

Sarcasm---innuendos---scenarios---what happened or what did not happen are NOT THE ANSWER.

If anyone would like to discuss the technicality behind the " kill switches "---then the discussion would be educational.

Rhetoric and is just an excuse for Incompetence---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

So much chatter for naught. I'll play the devil's advocate and say that the Pakistani government and military are already enslaved and/or tied to their US benefactors. Thus the F-16 saga in PAF will be ongoing long after all of us are dead and buried. Also if you agree with my premise, then you can be sure we will see more F-16s in PAF eventually as well as upgrades to the current fleet, naysayers not withstanding.
This contract here is for upkeep and updating the systems installed in the jet already. If ones computer and cellphone is updated constantly, why does anyone think same would not apply to jets. Not to mention updates to EW libraries etc.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

So much chatter for naught. I'll play the devil's advocate and say that the Pakistani government and military are already enslaved and/or tied to their US benefactors. Thus the F-16 saga in PAF will be ongoing long after all of us are dead and buried. Also if you agree with my premise, then you can be sure we will see more F-16s in PAF eventually as well as upgrades to the current fleet, naysayers not withstanding.
This contract here is for upkeep and updating the systems installed in the jet already. If ones computer and cellphone is updated constantly, why does anyone think same would not apply to jets. Not to mention updates to EW libraries etc.

This assumes that following U.S. interests = more F-16s. It could also be that our leaders have tied themselves to U.S. interests for more selfish reasons that don't have much to do with F-16s (or our national security interests in general).

 

[GriffinsRule]

This assumes that following U.S. interests = more F-16s. It could also be that our leaders have tied themselves to U.S. interests for more selfish reasons that don't have much to do with F-16s (or our national security interests in general).

Our national security interests don't have to align with the US all the time nor do they have a bearing or consideration as far as the yanks are concerned. I would even say Pakistan itself is not sure where it's national security interests like outside the scope of the subcontinent.
If history is any guide, there will again be times where we will be needed and US will "grant" us permission to procure more F-16 or upgrades eventually as long as it furthers their objectives and PAF/PA will happily oblige as it will strengthen us against India. Even if no new sales transpire, you can bet your bottom dollar that the F-16s will eventually get upgraded to whatever base standard is at the time (most likely towards the tail end of Block 70 sales and upgrades for other nations)

 

[PakFactor]

This assumes that following U.S. interests = more F-16s. It could also be that our leaders have tied themselves to U.S. interests for more selfish reasons that don't have much to do with F-16s (or our national security interests in general).

My thinking is more aligned with what you have stated. Pakistan's national policy is to have no policy, and you make it up as you go along.

 

[Clutch]

How are we gonna pay 450 million USD?
Idhr BC 60-70 bill ara hai for using electricity worth 1000 units.

Twadi *** nu

Easy... By "diverting" the Flood Victims Fund into the F-16 Upgrade Fund. Voila

 

[Signalian]

Easy... By "diverting" the Flood Victims Fund into the F-16 Upgrade Fund. Voila

Its the other way round actually, just like 2005 earthquake.

then you can be sure we will see more F-16s in PAF eventually as well as upgrades to the current fleet

That should be on the cards though looks bleak, preferable models are C/D. Hopefully, E/F from UAEAF someday too.

 

[Signalian]

This assumes that following U.S. interests = more F-16s. It could also be that our leaders have tied themselves to U.S. interests for more selfish reasons that don't have much to do with F-16s (or our national security interests in general).

Sell/compromise Nukes through F-16s ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sell/compromise Nukes through F-16s ?

tbh I was just thinking of saying "yes" to U.S. requests, but not asking for anything besides personal benefits (e.g., green cards). My point is that I have no confidence in the ability or willingness of our leaders to pursue the national interest, even in a comprised way. We could simply be dealing with leaders who, frankly, don't care about Pakistan at all, but only themselves individually.

In the past, our rulers -- e.g., Ayub Khan, ZAB, Zia ul-Haq, Benazir and Musharraf -- would at least try to ensure that Pakistan's ability to fight India goes up via Western support. So, even if they make really controversial decisions about Afghanistan or whatever, it always seemed that there was a red line that wouldn't be crossed. These days, I'm not sure there's such a line.